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A reassuring gushfest for those of you who are concerned.

Débuté par AdmiralCheez , nov. 07 2011 05:09

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#201
Guest_Dinosaur Act_*
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:28

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Well I wouldn't say "friendly". More like "civil". Professional.


Yeah, you're right. I have trouble imagining you "friendly" towards anyone, ha ha.


I feel that Cerberus has been extremely poorly handled: relatively small terroist group, then group with a fantastic space station and that plasters their logo on everything and works with Shep, then to a freaking army that now wants to kill Shepard. It's just...off.


They obviously put themselves in a stuck position as far as plot. I guess they think that's the best way to make it dramatic.

#202
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:28

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Yeah, you're right. I have trouble imagining you "friendly" towards anyone, ha ha.


I am ambivalent towards most accquaintances.


EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I feel that Cerberus has been extremely poorly handled: relatively small terroist group, then group with a fantastic space station and that plasters their logo on everything and works with Shep, then to a freaking army that now wants to kill Shepard. It's just...off.


Yeah, Cerberus is all over the place. They were at their best in ME1 where they actually looked and behaved like a clandestine outlaw organization. No logos, no uniforms, no obvious signs that one Cerberus base is actually linked to another. If it weren't for the logs in the rachni station you'd never know that it was Cerberus running that facility. Were it not for the Shadow Broker pointing you to Binthu you'd never know the bases there were connected to Cerberus either. Their tracks were hidden well in ME1. Like, you know, they didn't want to be caught.

ME2 at least kept them small (relatively) and then Retribution made them smaller. Then ME3 threw that under a bus.

#203
Seboist
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:28

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Lizardviking wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

The leaked information is not comprehensive enough to account for every single variation.


*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
The Reapers magically created a Rachni breeding machine if you killed the Queen showed me enough.
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*


I ****ING CALLED IT!


Us Renegades were right about everything!

#204
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:29

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Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

The leaked information is not comprehensive enough to account for every single variation.


*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*


I ****ING CALLED IT!


Us Renegades were right about everything!


Yet - In the end you still face the same consequences. Weak.

Modifié par Dinosaur Act, 07 novembre 2011 - 08:29 .

#205
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:30

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Dinosaur Act wrote...

They obviously put themselves in a stuck position as far as plot. I guess they think that's the best way to make it dramatic.


It's totally unnecessary and it isn't even that dramatic. It would have been dramatic enough if in the midst of the Reaper invasion Shepard turned to Cerberus for help (like he recieved in ME2) only to find out that they could provide none. Anderson's raid left them barely hanging on. Thus TIM is forced to repeat his statement that he brought Shepard back for a reason and that now more than ever he knows it was the right choice. It's up to Shepard now, not TIM. All TIM can do is formally award Shepard the Normandy SR2 and bid him good luck.

With Cerberus in a smaller role their role coudl have been more diverse. If you want to make an enemy of them you should be able to, but if you want to stay allies with them and help them rebuild that should be possible too. Let the player choose in this series all about CHOICE.

#206
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:36

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Saphra Deden wrote...

this series all about CHOICE.


I wish.

#207
Dexi
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:37

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Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

The leaked information is not comprehensive enough to account for every single variation.


*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
The Reapers magically created a Rachni breeding machine if you killed the Queen showed me enough.
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*


I ****ING CALLED IT!


Us Renegades were right about everything!


Hm... alternative complaining:
"OMG we killed Rachni queen and we missed out game content! This is ****. Us renegades are punished and we play less of this game. 
Moreover, if Sovereign indoctrinated the Rachni, why couldn't he sample their DNA, after all, they might prove useful in the future, and isn't that what they do? Sample species?"

#208
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:37

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Saphra Deden wrote...

this series all about CHOICE.


I wish, too. Unfortunately, I've begun to realize that Shepard's story has always been a predetermined story.

#209
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:38

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That's a good idea Saphra, but the thing about diverging paths like that is that they require double the work, for a normal return, and it's easier to do it cheaply or not at all. Results in things like email cameos and Kaishley or whatever they call the Horizen scene.

#210
Lotion Soronarr
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:39

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Gushfest?
With the quality of the writing as it appears from the leak?

LOL...

Mac Walters ruins everything he touched apprently. The main story in ME2 was his work, and it sucked (squadmates weren't and they didn't suck).
And it looks like ME3 will follow.
All the fancy graphics in the world and all the shooting mechnics can't save it.

#211
Seboist
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:40

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Rojahar wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

this series all about CHOICE.


I wish.


It is to an extent. it's about the choice of wanting to feel warm and fuzzy (Paragon) vs trolling for the lulz (Renegade).

Any attempt to try to take the choices and consequences seriously like say being concerned about blowback from the council for undermining the genophage or from the Quarians for rewriting the Geth just means you're thinking too hard.

#212
Yuoaman
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:41

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Gushfest?
With the quality of the writing as it appears from the leak?

LOL...

Mac Walters ruins everything he touched apprently. The main story in ME2 was his work, and it sucked (squadmates weren't and they didn't suck).
And it looks like ME3 will follow.
All the fancy graphics in the world and all the shooting mechnics can't save it.


This is yet another YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY.

#213
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:41

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Lotion's here, Saphra's here, Kaiser's here (lurking), Cheez is probably here, there's an old topic we can revive.

...too bad i have to go, an intelligent conversation with Saphra is something unique and to be valued.

#214
Seboist
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:43

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

That's a good idea Saphra, but the thing about diverging paths like that is that they require double the work, for a normal return, and it's easier to do it cheaply or not at all. Results in things like email cameos and Kaishley or whatever they call the Horizen scene.


There are ways of creating diverging paths without too much hassle like say a mission that involves a Geth vs Quarian battle, choose to ally with the Quarians and you fight from Point A to Point B and vice versa if you ally with the Geth instead.

#215
onelifecrisis
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:45

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Guys.

Holy hell.

Guys.

This game is huge.

Wow.  I mean, wow.

Your decisions (at least who lives and dies) matter.  And you won't believe who's coming back, the places you get to go, the things you get to do, who lives and dies, who's siding with whom and why...  For a sh*tty rough outline, this is gonna be amazing.

This is AdmiralCheez, tell you personally that the game has not been ruined.  ME3, judging by a very early implementation of its storyline, is going to rock and rock hard.  And, looking at the gameplay footage, combat and squad banter has been improved 300%.

There were some parts that were a bit blah, but no worse than what we've already dealt with and nothing so facepalmy as the Lazarus Project.

And I can guarantee you will f*cking cry.

(If you think this is too optimistic, please, read the damn title.  I am legit gushing over what I've read, though, and I haven't found any game-ruiners in here at all.)


Good to know, Cheez. And thanks for keeping it spoiler-free.

#216
Dave of Canada
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:46

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Dexi wrote...

"OMG we killed Rachni queen and we missed out game content! This is ****. Us renegades are punished and we play less of this game."


Asking for different content does not mean invalidate the player's choice to give them the same content but slapping it with a different name.

#217
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:46

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

That's a good idea Saphra, but the thing about diverging paths like that is that they require double the work, for a normal return, and it's easier to do it cheaply or not at all. Results in things like email cameos and Kaishley or whatever they call the Horizen scene.


True, it's cheaper and easier, but cheaper and easier isn't always better or best. The easiest and cheapest thing of all would be to not even have the illusion of choice, and remove all dialog options. Previous Bioware games have had some interesting divergences, so greater plot divergence and path viability is not an unreasonable expectation.

Seboist wrote...

It is to an extent. it's about the choice of wanting to feel warm and fuzzy (Paragon) vs trolling for the lulz (Renegade).


So true. That's the only consistent definition for either of them.

Modifié par Rojahar, 07 novembre 2011 - 08:48 .

#218
didymos1120
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:48

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mac Walters ruins everything he touched apprently. The main story in ME2 was his work, and it sucked (squadmates weren't and they didn't suck).


No, it was him and Drew Karpyshyn and Casey Hudson and Preston Watamaniuk.  Oh, and then the entire writing team got to give their feedback on it.  This incredibly persistent meme that "Lead Writer == Primary Author" is completely incorrect.

#219
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:51

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ME2's plot had a lot of nice ideas but it didn't all fit together well. Parts of it felt rushed. That goes for the rest of the game. The best example are the silent squadmates on some of the loyalty missions.

They needed a smaller squad and a tighter plot

OR

Two full discs of content and more development time maybe.

#220
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:53

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Hooolllleeeeee sh*t, Rojahar agreed with me, someone give me my pills I'm gonna have a heart attack.


And I agree on the definitions, both are too over the top.

#221
Kmead15
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:56

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Dexi wrote...

"OMG we killed *spoiler* and we missed out game content! This is ****. Us renegades are punished and we play less of this game."


Asking for different content does not mean invalidate the player's choice to give them the same content but slapping it with a different name.


What content would you have them put in instead of this mission? I can't think of a threat that killing her would have generated that would be on the same scale. If it's completely unrelated to them, then you have to wonder why the heck Paragons never saw this new threat too.

If anything, I'd let you guys skip the mission and give you extra resources because you had one less threat to deal with. Maybe some convo options that let you brag about it to the Krogan. Would that be enough?

#222
Seboist
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:56

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Saphra Deden wrote...

ME2's plot had a lot of nice ideas but it didn't all fit together well. Parts of it felt rushed. That goes for the rest of the game. The best example are the silent squadmates on some of the loyalty missions.

They needed a smaller squad and a tighter plot

OR

Two full discs of content and more development time maybe.


They should have delayed ME2 so they could at least have integrated Kasumi,Zaeed and LOTSB(Maybe Overlord too) better.

#223
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:57

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didymos1120 wrote...

No, it was him and Drew Karpyshyn and Casey Hudson and Preston Watamaniuk.  Oh, and then the entire writing team got to give their feedback on it.  This incredibly persistent meme that "Lead Writer == Primary Author" is completely incorrect.

Preston Watamaniuk takes part in plot writing? I had no idea.

#224
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Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 08:58

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Kmead15 wrote...

If anything, I'd let you guys skip the mission and give you extra resources because you had one less threat to deal with. Maybe some convo options that let you brag about it to the Krogan. Would that be enough?


Or maybe an entirely different situation arises influenced by the lack of a rachni presence? The possibilities are limitless. I think it was Seboist who said that killing the rachni queen should have generated more popularity for Shepard amongst the krogan. There are any number of ways that could manifest.

Like I said, the possibilities are limitless.

#225
Lotion Soronarr
Posté 07 novembre 2011 - 09:04

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Yuoaman wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Gushfest?
With the quality of the writing as it appears from the leak?

LOL...

Mac Walters ruins everything he touched apprently. The main story in ME2 was his work, and it sucked (squadmates weren't and they didn't suck).
And it looks like ME3 will follow.
All the fancy graphics in the world and all the shooting mechnics can't save it.


This is yet another YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY.


Bad writing is bad writing.

I don't care if you enjoy a 9999 page story about monkies flinging poo and consider it the best and most entertaining thing ever. You may like it, but it's still bad.

The plot leak butcheres characters, logic, reason and plenty else.
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