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[themonty72]

In Mota Cassandra said the Qunari is not a race but a religion and I like what...what are these Bronze skinned giants. I truly thought the Qun was their philosphy and religion.

Modifié par themonty72, 07 novembre 2011 - 10:11 .

[Herr Uhl]

The Qunari follow the Qun. The name for the race that Sten and the Arishok come from is Kossith.

[dragonflight288]

That race is called Kossith. The term 'qunari' apply to all those who follow the Qun. Humans, elves, Kossith, dwarves (I'm sure there are some.)

[themonty72]

Thanks.

Modifié par themonty72, 07 novembre 2011 - 10:11 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

Don't blame you for being confused - even the Arishok messes it up. 

[Gervaise]

So does the codex on darkspawn broomothers. It says that Ogres come from tainted Qunari when it should have said Kossith. I believe this is because in Origins the giants and their philosophy were one and the same, with only perhaps a small number of other races among them, but now in DA2 it is implied that much larger numbers of people have converted down the years, so it is more a fully fledged religion rather than a cult restricted to just one race (like the Dalish and their gods).

[Herr Uhl]

Gervaise wrote...

So does the codex on darkspawn broomothers. It says that Ogres come from tainted Qunari when it should have said Kossith. I believe this is because in Origins the giants and their philosophy were one and the same, with only perhaps a small number of other races among them, but now in DA2 it is implied that much larger numbers of people have converted down the years, so it is more a fully fledged religion rather than a cult restricted to just one race (like the Dalish and their gods).

It is mainly that the other people didn't need any other distinction, and will call them Qunari (their true name was leaked in a guide and later confirmed by Gaider IIRC). And the Qunari don't see the distinction as necessary.

[Gabey5]

Yes their species name is unknown to the rest of thedas, maybe even to the Qunari. Maybe they have had that name for a long time and it became attached to the religion later

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm of the mind that the Kossith were formerly a human military group, possibly army or naval, that were turned into their grey-skinned forms by mages.

This would explain their strict, militaristic culture, their hatred of all things magic and their possession of superior military technology (i.e. the cannon).

I was brought to this theory by some of the load screens in DA2, which showed normal looking Viking warriors being turned into horned, grey-skinned Kossith.

[WhiteKnyght]

themonty72 wrote...

In Mota Cassandra said the Qunari is not a race but a religion and I like what...what are these Bronze skinned giants. I truly thought the Qun was their philosphy and religion.

Qunari means 'Follower of the Qun' in their tongue.

Also I wouldn't call it a religion, per se. Religion implies that they believe in a higher power. The Qunari don't have spiritual beliefs. They seem more like communistic athiests from my viewpoint.

[Arthur Cousland]

The franchise does often refer to the Qunari as if they are a race, and not just "followers of the Qun", so it is understandable for the un-enlightened to be confused.

I'd like to see more in-game references to the Kossith (the race), just for clarity's sake.

[Eudaemonium]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

themonty72 wrote...

In Mota Cassandra said the Qunari is not a race but a religion and I like what...what are these Bronze skinned giants. I truly thought the Qun was their philosphy and religion.

Qunari means 'Follower of the Qun' in their tongue.

Also I wouldn't call it a religion, per se. Religion implies that they believe in a higher power. The Qunari don't have spiritual beliefs. They seem more like communistic athiests from my viewpoint.

Religion doesn't necessarily imply belief in a higher power (there isn't really an accepted definition, it's a complicated matter). The Qunari, however, obviously have certain spiritual beliefs, such as their souls being bound to/within certain objects associated with their role, such as Sten's sword or the Tome of Koslun. We don't know what their afterlife beliefs entail, but we know that a dead Qunari is no longer considered the person they were when alive. These points imply they are not pure materialists with regards to their worldview (as, say, Marxism and Communism are). Societally they have more in common with Plato's Republic than with Communism, though there are certain conceptual features common to both.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

themonty72 wrote...

In Mota Cassandra said the Qunari is not a race but a religion and I like what...what are these Bronze skinned giants. I truly thought the Qun was their philosphy and religion.

Qunari means 'Follower of the Qun' in their tongue.

Also I wouldn't call it a religion, per se. Religion implies that they believe in a higher power. The Qunari don't have spiritual beliefs. They seem more like communistic athiests from my viewpoint.

The Qunari is a religion the same way that Buddhism is. It is a philosophical school of thought, which believes in a certain set of morals, and the higher power of the Qun itself.

[FaeQueenCory]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Qunari is a religion the same way that Buddhism CONFUSIANISM is. It is a philosophical school of thought, which believes in a certain set of morals, and the higher power of the Qun itself.

Buddhism. IS. A. RELIGION.
I fixed your horrendously offensive statement to actually be factual... rather than rediculously ignorant.

Buddhism is a religion.
Confusianism is a philosophical school of thought that is considered a religion... though it is just a philosophy.

The Qun has elements of Daoism, with the way that it refers to the Qun as some sort of divine entity and with its orderly conduct and "the way of the Qun" stuff... With a bit of Confusianism with it's lack of theistic views.
But I feel that the split is 70-30 Dao-Confusian...

[errant_knight]

The Qun is a philosophy. The Qunari are followers of that philosophy.

[EmperorSahlertz]

FaeQueenCory wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Qunari is a religion the same way that Buddhism CONFUSIANISM is. It is a philosophical school of thought, which believes in a certain set of morals, and the higher power of the Qun itself.

Buddhism. IS. A. RELIGION.
I fixed your horrendously offensive statement to actually be factual... rather than rediculously ignorant.

Buddhism is a religion.
Confusianism is a philosophical school of thought that is considered a religion... though it is just a philosophy.

The Qun has elements of Daoism, with the way that it refers to the Qun as some sort of divine entity and with its orderly conduct and "the way of the Qun" stuff... With a bit of Confusianism with it's lack of theistic views.
But I feel that the split is 70-30 Dao-Confusian...

Uhm... I didn't say Buddhism wasn't a religion. I said that Qunari were a religon the SAME way that Buddhism is a religion. That a religion doesn't need any sort of divine entity, but only needs to ascribe to some sort of higher moral or purpose of life. So get off your high horse please...

[FaeQueenCory]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm... I didn't say Buddhism wasn't a religion. I said that Qunari were a religon the SAME way that Buddhism is a religion. That a religion doesn't need any sort of divine entity, but only needs to ascribe to some sort of higher moral or purpose of life. So get off your high horse please...

Buddhism HAS divine entities. Many in fact. (My personal favorite is Quan Yin)
The Qun is nothing like Buddhism.
And, as I corrected earlier, what you should be saying instead of Buddhism (which, by your previous post you were implying that it's not a religion but more of a philosophy) is Confusianism.
Which is not a religion, just like the Qun, but a moral philosophy, just like the Qun.

And it's not being on a high horse for correcting someone who says something offensive about someone's religion... The Qun and Buddhism are nothing a like, and equating Buddhism to the Qun implies that Buddhism is not a religion.... because the Qun is not.

[Eudaemonium]

The whole 'Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion' is a pretty common ideological perspective (even if it is wrong), it usually arises from an extreme focus on a creator divinity. Buddhism has gods, but not a God. It actually seems to be employed frequently by individuals who are "anti-religion" (usually Christianity), but like Buddhism, and thus rationalise their stance by saying "it's not really a religion", rather than reconsidering their definition of what a religion is. The confusion arises primarily because our definitions of "religion" are ultimately modeled on Christianity, and thus a lot of people in the West are geared towards identifying religion with belief in a higher power, usually a creator god.

The Qun might be a moral philosophy, but it has pretty clear, overt spiritual elements, as well as an organised hierarchical structure which codifies the legitimacy of beliefs and regulates conduct with regards to orthodoxy and orthopraxy. I would currently class it as a religion, but like I said the definition is contested. We also do not know the full scope of the Qun as a system of life, only fragments.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Buddhism don't worship any gods. That is the one big defining difference between Buddhism and other religions. Quan Yin is not a god, but an elightened one. I cannot be bothered to tell you the difference between a god and an enlightened one in Buddhism, but if you really are a Buddhist I shouldn't have to...

And it is a high horse, especially when you see offenses when there are none made. I did not say that the Qun and Buddhism was similar in philosophy, I simply said that you don't need to worship gods to be qualified as a religion, the same way with Buddhism.

[WhiteKnyght]

errant_knight wrote...

The Qun is a philosophy. The Qunari are followers of that philosophy.

Exactly. Thats why they call Koslun a philosopher. If the Qun was a religion he would be a prophet.

[OBakaSama]

Just to chip in...Quan Yin, as far as I understand it, is actually a Boddhisattva and isn't actually enlightened in the same way as Buddha is due to still having earthly attachments (compassion). The problem is that Buddhist 'deities', and use that term loosely hence the marks, is that they are essentially deified and worshipped; which is sort of counter to what Buddhism seeks to teach as far as I'm concerned.

As for the Qunari...it would seem there was some retrospective altering. From DAO it seemed they were a race, and in DA2 it seemed to be a religion (at least superficially as it does seem to be a philosophy). I do look forward to what else the Qun holds as it seems fascinating. The conversations with Sten led me to associate it with a certain Kantian spin myself, though in practice I agree with Eudaemonium's point about Plato's Republic as the practice of the Qun seems to be very similar to that.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You can be a philosopher and still promote a religion, the two aren't mutually exclusive..

[TEWR]

themonty72 wrote...

In Mota Cassandra said the Qunari is not a race but a religion and I like what...what are these Bronze skinned giants. I truly thought the Qun was their philosphy and religion.

Indeed, the race of giants -- both horned like the Arishok and hornless like Sten -- are called Kossith. The word Qunari applies to anyone who follows the Qun. Qunari translates to "People of the Qun". Any race can be called Qunari.

People on here -- and possibly within Thedas -- seem to argue about whether what the Ashkaari Koslun gave the Qunari is a philosophy or a religion. I see it as both, but also more than that. It's not just a belief. It's a way of life to them. It defines their very being in every aspect.

They believe in order. They see magic as chaotic and see it as something that threatens their idea of order. To this end, they collar their mages and do abhorrent things to them. Perhaps it's out of some warped sense of caring for the mage because they don't want any Qunari mage to lose themselves to demons. I don't know, but that's how I see it. I do know that they value the Saarebas -- which means "dangerous thing" -- as being a living embodiment of the Qun. They both pity and honor them, for they may lose themselves at any moment. Literally and figuratively.

And while the calling of their mages as "things" may strike someone as being cruel, one must remember that the Qunari define words very differently. They view "doing battle" and "fighting" as two different things, hence why Tallis is a member of the Ben-Hassrath and is allowed to fight. A soldier lives by their blade and lives only to fight. A Ben-Hassrath lives by protecting the Qun philosophy in various ways, be it assassination, policing the Qunari lands, or whatever else.

Not to mention that Hawke can be called "Basalit-an" and receives a weapon called "Bassrath-Kata". The former translates to "an outsider worthy of respect" roughly, while the former may translate to "Ben-Hassrath Outsider" or something that signifies Hawke can be among the Ben-Hassrath. Even a mage Hawke can be among them as Mary Kirby said that mages are allowed into the Ben-Hassrath. They're watched carefully though.

Both names use the word "bas", and yet they are not disdainful usages of the word.

I think partially why they fear the mages is because they don't understand that magic -- and by extension nature itself -- is chaotic, something Morrigan echoes.

Anyway, Qunari follow the Qun. Tal-Vashoth don't follow the Qun, and this is why Tallis makes it clear that the people Hawke and everyone are fighting are Tal-Vashoth and not Qunari.

[KJandrew]

Gervaise wrote...

So does the codex on darkspawn broomothers. It says that Ogres come from tainted Qunari when it should have said Kossith. I believe this is because in Origins the giants and their philosophy were one and the same, with only perhaps a small number of other races among them,

Remember the codexes are written by people in the universe, so it refering to Qunari could simply be that the writer doesn't know of the distinction (a thing many poeple in Thedas share) probably due to the fact that the only Qunari most poeple interact with are the Antaam, who in my opinion are more likely to be Kossith