204 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't understand why so many people are so caught up in nostalgia that they would compromise a previous story to try and relive it. If a previous character is in DA3 that is fine so long as they should be there. If they are dead or doing something else then don't put them in!!!! Players are likely to still feel an attachment to the warden and if they are in DA3, doing something the player doesn't like, the player is likely to be offended. It also ruins their own stories formed in their imagination over the past 5 years. Given the different situations (even dead) the warden could end up in I don't think he/she should be in it at all.

What has reliving the past to do with continueing a protagonist in a sequel? Shepard isn't reliving his past either, they are new stories in every new game. I only dislike to meet 'old friends' with new characters. If they made every game 100 years apart I wouldn't even care. I don't understand why people want new characters tbh, were their old ones so bad? If so, probably their new ones will be just as bad, because you define your character's personality. You can change personalities or keep the same no matter if your character is new or old. Makes no difference.

For example my Warden was supposed to be with Leliana, or Morrigan. But ... duh ... something happened, not much of an explaination why and what. I can really do without this kind of crap. I find that this new character, old friends thing was generally handled badly in DA2 and I have no reason to believe I will be more happy how they do it in DA3. There will simply be a bunch of retcons, period. That's why I dislike it. And others probably too.

[Anyroad2]

alex90c wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sinuphro wrote...

read this article....
http://www.joystiq.c...-age-dlc-and-3/

well this article has definitely changed my mind. I will not purchase DA 3 or other DA DLC. You would think bioware had learned from their mistakes; yet... Oh well I will just rent it when it comes to Blockbuster

1) Witch Hunt had already established itself as being the end of the Warden's playable story.

2) A new protagonist each game isn't a mistake. How Bioware handled Hawke in DAII was a mistake, but the concept and the application are not the same thing.

I like how Hawke was handled. Bioware created a character thats more like a real person than some imaginary hero.

He lives his life and tries to get buy and keeps getting sucked into other people's crap. That happens IRL more than you'd think.

Hawke is exactly what they wanted him to be and they executed him perfectly. 

You guys are just sore over the fact that he's not heading some army against an ancient evil that threatens to destroy the world. Which has been done OVER 9000 times!!!

Also I've said this to people before and I'll say it again. If you don't like DAII you don't have to keep playing it and hanging around the boards for it. Yet you do. If it's so bad, play something else!

Yes, because real people are "diplomatic", "sarcastic" or "aggressive", and whenever they blend any of these two together in a conversation they sound bipolar.

RIIIIIIIIIGHT.

Just like real people are mute and emotionless, relying on telepathy to communicate.

[Anyroad2]

Lynata wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...
Personally, I think it's a decent look. Makes them distinctive.

On the other hand, it's not what people expect from elves. Imo, if the studio was unhappy with the cliché they may as well have invented an entirely new race back then. This way it just reeks of retcon and misses people's expectations, and it's really not as if making elves look like cat people is in any way inventive. If anything it smells like trying to jump on the Avatar bandwagon.

If distinctiveness was really the reason for the change, I wonder what they would do to the dwarves next, given that the same conditions apply.


As far as all the "whining" is concerned ... in all fairness, people complain because they care. They obviously miss something and wish for the next installment of the series to return to the reasons they began loving the franchise in the first place. This kind of dedication, when brought forward in a constructive manner, deserves a certain level of acknowledgement. At the very least it is not in any way less valuable than the opinions of those who applaud these changes just because they cater to their personal preferences.

The thing with Dragon Age: Origins elves, is that they were just small humans with pointed ears. That was it. That was the only thing that set them apart visually. The same goes for Kossith. They were just bigger, buffer humans who seemed to all have cornrows.

Both those elves and kossith got a redisign. They both have very unique physical traits now.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:27 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Anyroad2 wrote...
Both those elves and kossith got a redisign. They both have very unique physical traits now.

Quite ugly and kind of derpy on the elves side.
Not to mention those huge bug eyes and the stick arms.

[Lynata]

AlexXIV wrote...
For example my Warden was supposed to be with Leliana, or Morrigan. But ... duh ... something happened, not much of an explaination why and what. I can really do without this kind of crap.

Well, in some way I can relate, and my Warden ended up with Leliana as well - but that this relationship wasn't going to last for eternity was already established in the ending screens of DA:O. I admit I was a bit saddened by that as well, but it was part of the same story, so acceptance was easy. Either way, it's nothing that could be blamed on DA2.

Anyroad2 wrote...
The thing with Dragon Age: Origins elves, is that they were just small humans with pointed ears. That was it. That was the only thing that set them apart visually. The same goes for Kossith. They were just bigger, buffer humans who seemed to all have cornrows.

Both those elves and kossith got a redisign. They both have very unique physical traits now.

Well, yes. But lithe humans with pointy ears is exactly what elves are by definition of contemporary fantasy. You can't turn them into cat people for the sole reason to have them stand apart - like I said, if you want to do that, invent an entirely new race, but don't toy with people's expectations, especially when they already had an established look.
And what would you suggest for the dwarves? Do you think they need a revamp as well?

Granted, it's clearly a matter of taste, but I have to agree with the "creepy looking" bit. I just don't get anything out of those panther faces. :/

megski wrote...
I would use the bipolar hawke

Nice one.

Modifié par Lynata, 09 novembre 2011 - 03:06 .

[alex90c]

Anyroad2 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sinuphro wrote...

read this article....
http://www.joystiq.c...-age-dlc-and-3/

well this article has definitely changed my mind. I will not purchase DA 3 or other DA DLC. You would think bioware had learned from their mistakes; yet... Oh well I will just rent it when it comes to Blockbuster

1) Witch Hunt had already established itself as being the end of the Warden's playable story.

2) A new protagonist each game isn't a mistake. How Bioware handled Hawke in DAII was a mistake, but the concept and the application are not the same thing.

I like how Hawke was handled. Bioware created a character thats more like a real person than some imaginary hero.

He lives his life and tries to get buy and keeps getting sucked into other people's crap. That happens IRL more than you'd think.

Hawke is exactly what they wanted him to be and they executed him perfectly. 

You guys are just sore over the fact that he's not heading some army against an ancient evil that threatens to destroy the world. Which has been done OVER 9000 times!!!

Also I've said this to people before and I'll say it again. If you don't like DAII you don't have to keep playing it and hanging around the boards for it. Yet you do. If it's so bad, play something else!

Yes, because real people are "diplomatic", "sarcastic" or "aggressive", and whenever they blend any of these two together in a conversation they sound bipolar.

RIIIIIIIIIGHT.

Just like real people are mute and emotionless, relying on telepathy to communicate.

...how does that have anything to do with Hawke? I'm not a big warden fan so if you're trying to respond to my post by mocking the warden then well, it's not working.

[Lord_Valandil]

Lynata wrote...

Well, yes. But lithe humans with pointy ears is exactly what elves are by definition of contemporary fantasy. You can't turn them into cat people for the sole reason to have them stand apart - like I said, if you want to do that, invent an entirely new race, but don't toy with people's expectations, especially when they already had an established look.
And what would you suggest for the dwarves? Do you think they need a revamp as well?

Indeed. Dwarves are short, drunk and have beards.
They are the same in EVERY OTHER FANTASY SETTING. So, what's up Bioware? When are the Dwarves going to receive the extreme make over? Huh?
And the dragons as well...they have the traditional look that everyone knows, so...that needs a tweak as well.

Anyway, I don't get why they messed up the Elves and the Darkspawn and left the other things intact (the demons, the dwarves, the dragons, etc...).

[Merilsell]

*looks at her sig*

MY Warden's story is far from over, however.

[RagingCyclone]

Merilsell wrote...

*looks at her sig*

MY Warden's story is far from over, however.

Same here.  And I am at the point I don't care what the games do for his LI either.

[BBK4114]

Merilsell wrote...

*looks at her sig*

MY Warden's story is far from over, however.

Forget your siggy--Look at your avatar!!!!    

Edit: (the smiley face is a nice touch.) 

Modifié par BBK4114, 09 novembre 2011 - 04:05 .

[LobselVith8]

Sinuphro wrote...

read this article....
http://www.joystiq.c...-age-dlc-and-3/

well this article has definitely changed my mind. I will not purchase DA 3 or other DA DLC. You would think bioware had learned from their mistakes; yet... Oh well I will just rent it when it comes to Blockbuster

I don't think the proposed story for Dragon Age III (mentioned in the article) makes much sense. How do you "calm" the schism between two factions that want the exact opposite of the other, especially when the schism exists across the entire continent of Thedas?

I really hope that the mages and the templars aren't one-dimensional caricatures like they were in Dragon Age 2, if the developers are serious about dealing with the mages and templars again.

Also, how is The Warden's story "over" if he sided with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt? I understand not playing as The Warden as the main protagonist again, but if Morrigan is going to return, it would make sense that The Warden would aid her goals and remain at her side (if he romanced her and went into the Eluvian with her).

[blaidfiste]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

blaidfiste wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So the elves are going to look the same in DA3 as in DA2?

A couple tweaks but no going back to DAO elves.

And is there anything regarding the new clownish-Skeletorish-Darkspawn?
Are they going to remain the same as well?

Noone said they would either change, tweak or leave the new darkspawn alone.

[LobselVith8]

Gunderic wrote...

Don't worry. Skyrim is due in two days and we can forget this mess has ever happened.

It's kind of like kicking over the sandcastle. They made a bad sequel and now we can only hope that new games arrive and everyone forgets about Dragon Age 2 and the Dragon Age franchise.

Or we can trust in a lead designer that doesn't even make RPG's to keep the franchise afloat.

I admit I have a lot of trouble with how passive Hawke is in the main game, and even the story DLCs. I wish that the developers would allow Hawke to be proactive, intelligent, and cunning. I get the feeling that the franchise is going in a direction that I'm not too invested in with the bad paraphrasing that takes me out of the story, and the overly passive protagonist.

That said, I've heard some great things about Skyrim.

[blaidfiste]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sinuphro wrote...

read this article....
http://www.joystiq.c...-age-dlc-and-3/

well this article has definitely changed my mind. I will not purchase DA 3 or other DA DLC. You would think bioware had learned from their mistakes; yet... Oh well I will just rent it when it comes to Blockbuster

I don't think the proposed story for Dragon Age III (mentioned in the article) makes much sense. How do you "calm" the schism between two factions that want the exact opposite of the other, especially when the schism exists across the entire continent of Thedas?

I really hope that the mages and the templars aren't one-dimensional caricatures like they were in Dragon Age 2, if the developers are serious about dealing with the mages and templars again.

Also, how is The Warden's story "over" if he sided with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt? I understand not playing as The Warden as the main protagonist again, but if Morrigan is going to return, it would make sense that The Warden would aid her goals and remain at her side (if he romanced her and went into the Eluvian with her).

The most you can hope for will be a mention from Morrigan or a sidequest involving the kid. 

[Brockololly]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Also, how is The Warden's story "over" if he sided with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt? I understand not playing as The Warden as the main protagonist again, but if Morrigan is going to return, it would make sense that The Warden would aid her goals and remain at her side (if he romanced her and went into the Eluvian with her).

It wouldn't be over. But of course, it would be a new story for the Warden, not unlike it was a new story for the Bhaalspawn in BG2 after having defeated Sarevok in BG1.

The problem with simply latching an Eluvian Warden with Morrigan as her lackey is that we still have no idea what it is Morrigan is planning to do or what her ultimate goals are. So your Warden's reasons for going with her might be totally different than somebody else's- somebody might have gone with her to help her with whatever her goals are, while somebody might have went with her to only want to help raise the OGB, while somebody might have went with her to act as a philosophical counterbalance to whatever her plans may be, to make sure she doesn't go too far and stop whatever she's got planned potentially. Or maybe your Warden went through the Eluvian to just get some more tent time with Morrigan.

Romance with Morrigan shouldn't mean that your Warden necessarily agrees with everything she does. And thats why I'd rather the player have some input of some sort with the Warden going forward if they went that route. As its obvious Morrigan is coming back, so either BioWare will write off the Warden or they'll hijack their motivations without any player input. It would be nice if BioWare could let the player dictate the motivations of the Warden somehow- whether thats by having them a as temporary player character for the plot lines which make more sense for them to be dealing with or by indirectly doing it someway where the player sets flags somehow.

[Lynata]

Brockololly wrote...
The problem with simply latching an Eluvian Warden with Morrigan as her lackey is that we still have no idea what it is Morrigan is planning to do or what her ultimate goals are. So your Warden's reasons for going with her might be totally different than somebody else's- somebody might have gone with her to help her with whatever her goals are, while somebody might have went with her to only want to help raise the OGB, while somebody might have went with her to act as a philosophical counterbalance to whatever her plans may be, to make sure she doesn't go too far and stop whatever she's got planned potentially. Or maybe your Warden went through the Eluvian to just get some more tent time with Morrigan.

Romance with Morrigan shouldn't mean that your Warden necessarily agrees with everything she does. And thats why I'd rather the player have some input of some sort with the Warden going forward if they went that route. As its obvious Morrigan is coming back, so either BioWare will write off the Warden or they'll hijack their motivations without any player input. It would be nice if BioWare could let the player dictate the motivations of the Warden somehow- whether thats by having them a as temporary player character for the plot lines which make more sense for them to be dealing with or by indirectly doing it someway where the player sets flags somehow.

That's a problem with all sequels following a game where the player was able to exert any significant influence on the outcome - the more possible endings you have, the trickier it gets appeasing the people who want "their" ending to be the basis for the next. Probably the main reason why Bioware seems to prefer introducing a new protagonist with every part of the series. I also wonder whether this is the reason for DA2 not allowing as much influence ... certainly it becomes much easier for any DLC or full-scale expansion to continue a story that had a single predetermined outcome.

To do otherwise would basically require DA3 to have several "Origin" stories again - only this time they'd be based on the various possible outcomes in DA1, attempting to lead the player into a unified story arc that is viable for all.

Certainly an interesting idea, too, now that I think about it...

Merilsell wrote...
*looks at her sig*
MY Warden's story is far from over, however.

Maybe you should give the Dragon Age P&P RPG a try. It really is a lot of fun, and - being a tabletop game - gives you full control of the setting and the ongoing story. I can only recommend it!

Modifié par Lynata, 09 novembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[Malanek]

AlexXIV wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't understand why so many people are so caught up in nostalgia that they would compromise a previous story to try and relive it. If a previous character is in DA3 that is fine so long as they should be there. If they are dead or doing something else then don't put them in!!!! Players are likely to still feel an attachment to the warden and if they are in DA3, doing something the player doesn't like, the player is likely to be offended. It also ruins their own stories formed in their imagination over the past 5 years. Given the different situations (even dead) the warden could end up in I don't think he/she should be in it at all.

What has reliving the past to do with continueing a protagonist in a sequel? Shepard isn't reliving his past either, they are new stories in every new game. I only dislike to meet 'old friends' with new characters. If they made every game 100 years apart I wouldn't even care. I don't understand why people want new characters tbh, were their old ones so bad? If so, probably their new ones will be just as bad, because you define your character's personality. You can change personalities or keep the same no matter if your character is new or old. Makes no difference.

For example my Warden was supposed to be with Leliana, or Morrigan. But ... duh ... something happened, not much of an explaination why and what. I can really do without this kind of crap. I find that this new character, old friends thing was generally handled badly in DA2 and I have no reason to believe I will be more happy how they do it in DA3. There will simply be a bunch of retcons, period. That's why I dislike it. And others probably too.

Your second paragraph partially answered your question. Because your previous characters story is over. The warden could be...dead, in orzamar as a paragon, in orzamar looking after his/her nephew sister, in orzamar trying to become king, at the circle of magi, running around with leliana, gone through a portal mirror with morrigan, journeyed with Sten to Par Vollen, king/queen of fereldan, running the grey wardens, rejoined the dhalish or gone into alienage politics. There have already been too many different ENDINGS for that character. Any attempt to merge those up will just be a hollow mess done purely as fan service to relive an earlier character.

With Shepard you never had any kind of closure, it was always designed to be a trilogy.

[Anyroad2]

alex90c wrote...

...how does that have anything to do with Hawke? I'm not a big warden fan so if you're trying to respond to my post by mocking the warden then well, it's not working.

I was mocking silent heros, but thats just because I havent seen any other way to do conversations yet.
Typically theres a silent protagonist whos emotionless, or theres a voiced protagonist with a few voiced options... usually a nice, argressive, and a funny/jerk/charming one. Its one of those or you get a protagonist that doesnt have any options, like a NPC.

I guess there could be a voiced protagonist who has more than a few options for dialouge (maybe multiple "nice" choices), but that would end up being a lot more costly. More lines the more voice acting costs, I think.

[alex90c]

Anyroad2 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

...how does that have anything to do with Hawke? I'm not a big warden fan so if you're trying to respond to my post by mocking the warden then well, it's not working.

I was mocking silent heros, but thats just because I havent seen any other way to do conversations yet.
Typically theres a silent protagonist whos emotionless, or theres a voiced protagonist with a few voiced options... usually a nice, argressive, and a funny/jerk/charming one. Its one of those or you get a protagonist that doesnt have any options, like a NPC.

I guess there could be a voiced protagonist who has more than a few options for dialouge (maybe multiple "nice" choices), but that would end up being a lot more costly. More lines the more voice acting costs, I think.

I found the ME system much better, it was pretty much "good-neutral-bad" but they were still left fairly ambiguous so a renegade dialogue might actually end up being a funny, "good" dialogues can be diplomatic and charming and so on.

But Bioware trying to make a "sarcastic" personality where they've had to create some sort of joke in every single conversation which uses the personalities was just awful. I can be sarcastic as hell around my friends, but it's not my defining trait where every time I talk to someone I try to start wisecracking.

[Teddie Sage]

Finally... My Warden's story was way done after Origins. I created a new warden just for Awakening because I was satisfied with his ending. The Dark Ritual one. My Cousland left to Antiva with Zevran to rebuild the Crows.

[dsl08002]

My cousland wardens story didn´t end at witch hunt, when he stood before morrigan and heard of what might happen in the future he realised that he must once agin take up the mantle and solve this.

Witch hunt was in my opnion only the beginning of a new adventure with the warden considering he didn´t follow morrigan

[Teddie Sage]

Witch Hunt was for me a way to end a romance with Morrigan, nothing else. I don't consider it canon at all. Not even for Dragon Age II.

[Annihilator27]

BBK4114 wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

*looks at her sig*

MY Warden's story is far from over, however.

Forget your siggy--Look at your avatar!!!!    

Edit: (the smiley face is a nice touch.) 

Thats hilarious, Is there a youtube vid of your pic?

[Merilsell]

Of what? Alistair's nekkid stride of awesome? No, but I like the idea, loI. I haven't made this, however, the origin of this pic lies somewhere deep within the many sites of the Alistair thread. I just use its awesomeness, muahahar.

[staindgrey]

I don't understand the Warden argument...

Look. The Warden's great. DA:O was too. HOWEVER.

1) The Warden had a very, very good chance of dying. Including the Warden in a very important role in DA3 would essentially negate all Warden characters who didn't go through Morrigan's ritual. That's not the same as ME3 negating any Shepard who was so dumb with his choices that he got himself and everyone else killed.

2) A big part of your love for the Warden is nostalgia and comparison to DA2. What will happen when DA3 inevitably gets something wrong about your Warden? Or attaches a voice that you didn't like? Or forces _____ onto his/her character for the sake of plot, even though your Warden wouldn't do that? Bringing the Warden back only brings more potential problems with older fans of the series, rather than more positives.

3) Rather than begging for a character, people should be arguing the gameplay aspects they want. This is a story about Thedas, not about the Warden or about Hawke. All signs point to a more global affair, outside of Ferelden and Kirkwall both. Wouldn't it be better to explore these new places and people without being tied down by the restrictions of DA:O's events?

The way I look at this series in comparison to Mass Effect is this: ME's overall plot is the fight against the Reapers, and it takes three games to get through that overarching plot. Dragon Age, instead, has a varying plot that covers multiple threats, like a real world. You aren't spending three games fighting the Blight; you finished that in one game. All your choices are mainly only important for THAT game, then DA2 has a mostly separate affair, and DA3 will do the same. Decisions carrying over is not nearly as important in DA when compared to ME3, because the plots are only loosely connected. And I'd prefer it that way, rather than shoehorning characters into places they don't fit just for nostalgia purposes.

I just don't think it's fair to compare DA to other franchises, when it's pretty clearly taking another route. A Warden cameo if he/she is alive? I'd be cool with that. Making the Warden the protagonist if he/she doesn't fit? That would only degrade DA3's value, IMO. I'd like my Warden to stay in DA:O and my memories.