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[dsl08002]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

As I understand it the Grey Warden's story reached one of three "endings"
1) made the ultimate sacrifice fighting the archdemon
2) followed Morrigan through the portal
3) received a "gift" from Morrigan and mysteriously vanished

1) needs no continuation, 2) could use an update and 3) needs an explanation
None require the warden to actually appear again

Depends

The first one is correct

However second and third is all the stories that was left open and that needs closure.

Mine ending in witch hunt was that i didn´t follow morrigan and i recieved the book, and it only felt as a new adventure was about to begin with the warden.

Similair to ME i want to see a final and satisfying ending to the protaganist so there wont be any questions like "what happend next?" which clearly was what happend in Witch hunt. 

[TEWR]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For one thing, their involvement with the politics of Ferelden -- and Orzammar who is a sovereign country on its own -- greatly infuriated the Chantry.

Source?

I think it was from Warden Alistair in Act II, but I can't quite recall.
 
Ah wait, just watched it. He says the Order wasn't too pleased. I do know the Chantry wasn't too pleased either, because I distinctly remember that being mentioned somewhere.

Might take me some time to find the actual source of that though.

Zanallen wrote...


Grey Wardens are important, yes. They are important because only a warden can kill an archdemon. That is really the only thing that they are absolutely needed for. At least, as far as we know at this time.

We know that they are needed outside of Blights as well because they're the most experienced against the Darkspawn. An occasional band of Darkspawn might not prove to be a problem, but continuous bands of Darkspawn probably would be.

And with the dawn of the Awakened Darkspawn and their unknown nature, the Wardens are needed more than ever because almost everyone assumes Darkspawn are mindless.

The Wardens are involved with politics, yes. However, they are not supposed to be. Maintaining their neutrality is one of the keys to them having the freedom to conscript new wardens and travel through various countries in order to do their job. We have yet to see what sort of reprecusions the PC's actions in Origin will have if a war were to break out between Ferelden and another nation. If the wardens involved themselves in a war between nations, like Amaranthine fighting for Ferelden against its enemies, it could have disasterous effects.

The Wardens have been politically involved in the Anderfels since their founding -- due to the weak monarchy over there -- and they only agreed to be neutral when the nations of Thedas wouldn't agree to fight the Third Blight. Prior to that they helped to spread the Chantry's influence. My guess is that they declared they would be neutral so that the nations would work together, and the Wardens helped to mediate.

They have been politically involved since their founding and in the last few centuries decided to be neutral.

Were Ferelden to go to war with another country, the Wardens would be obligated to fight -- either actively or just in defense -- because the enemy nation would end up attacking them. The soldiers under them would be attacked and the citizens would suffer as well.

Someone is moving against the wardens, yes. But that doesn't mean anything in an of itself.

But it does. Due to Ferelden's political idiocy, the Blight spread unchecked. Had the Wardens not involved themselves in Ferelden's politics, Ferelden would've been lost and the Blight would've spread to the north and to the west. Orlais' Wardens knew that Ferelden had to cast aside its politics in the name of the greater threat if they wanted to survive, but didn't think they would so they began preparing.

The Warden is given the option to say something in Warden's Keep that is a very apt description of the events of Origins:

The Blight changes everything.

That someone is moving against them means that someone doesn't want them to be politically involved again like they used to be, even if they're involvement is needed.

It means -- at least to me -- that someone would rather not have their political influence threatened. It means -- again at least to me -- that someone doesn't care about the results, those being that thousands of lives were saved due to their intervention.

Lastly, I don't think the events of Awakening really required a warden. It just happened to be a warden that was involved and solved the crisis. Anyone could have done the same thing.

I doubt just anyone could've solved the crisis that happened to occur in the area that was handed over to the Wardens by the monarchy of Ferelden at the end of Origins.

[hoorayforicecream]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For one thing, their involvement with the politics of Ferelden -- and Orzammar who is a sovereign country on its own -- greatly infuriated the Chantry.

Source?

I think it was from Warden Alistair in Act II, but I can't quite recall.
 
Ah wait, just watched it. He says the Order wasn't too pleased. I do know the Chantry wasn't too pleased either, because I distinctly remember that being mentioned somewhere.

Might take me some time to find the actual source of that though.

I can understand why the Order wouldn't be too pleased. The newest Warden recruit broke a thousand-year-old neutrality agreement that had been a founding principle of the Warden Order since the beginning. I'm not sure where "greatly infuriating" the Chantry comes in.

Also, equating "wasn't too pleased" with "greatly infuriated" seems like the sort of hyperbole that political pundits engage in regularly.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 13 novembre 2011 - 06:01 .

[TEWR]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For one thing, their involvement with the politics of Ferelden -- and Orzammar who is a sovereign country on its own -- greatly infuriated the Chantry.

Source?

I think it was from Warden Alistair in Act II, but I can't quite recall.
 
Ah wait, just watched it. He says the Order wasn't too pleased. I do know the Chantry wasn't too pleased either, because I distinctly remember that being mentioned somewhere.

Might take me some time to find the actual source of that though.

I can understand why the Order wouldn't be too pleased. The newest Warden recruit broke a thousand-year-old neutrality agreement that had been a founding principle of the Warden Order since the beginning. I'm not sure where "greatly infuriating" the Chantry comes in.

They didn't become neutral until during the Third Blight as I understand it. Prior to that, they had been agents of the Chantry helping to spread the faith and they dealt with the politics of each nation.

Also, equating "wasn't too pleased" with "greatly infuriated" seems like the sort of hyperbole that political pundits engage in regularly.

Meh if my suspicions on the Chantry being the ones who are moving against the Wardens is correct then I wouldn't call it hyperbole.

[hoorayforicecream]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They didn't become neutral until during the Third Blight as I understand it. Prior to that, they had been agents of the Chantry helping to spread the faith and they dealt with the politics of each nation.

The Grey Wardens predate the Chantry and the Orlesian Empire. They converted to the Chantry at the end of the second Blight, but the extents of the Chantry's involvement with the Wardens is not really clear. If you want to speculate that it is the case, then that's your prerogative. However, it's still just speculation, unless you can find some actual evidence.

Also, equating "wasn't too pleased" with "greatly infuriated" seems like the sort of hyperbole that political pundits engage in regularly.

Meh if my suspicions on the Chantry being the ones who are moving against the Wardens is correct then I wouldn't call it hyperbole.

So if your speculation is right, your other speculation is right? I kind of prefer to deal in facts, myself.

[TEWR]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Grey Wardens predate the Chantry and the Orlesian Empire. They converted to the Chantry at the end of the second Blight, but the extents of the Chantry's involvement with the Wardens is not really clear. If you want to speculate that it is the case, then that's your prerogative. However, it's still just speculation, unless you can find some actual evidence.

yes I know they predate the Chantry. They don't however predate the belief in the Maker nor the cults that believed in Him.

When they were founded, they broke away from Tevinter to fight the Darkspawn. Eventually in the First Blight, they met with the leaders of Tevinter, the nation that would be Orlais, and Rivain and as such were involved in the politics of each. Especially if they had to work to get them to work together, as I imagine Tevinter arrogance may have made them unwilling at first to work with others.

In the beginning of the Second blight, the Wardens in the Anderfels were beset by the Darkspawn and converted to the Chantry of Andraste when Drakon's troops helped out. I'm fairly certain that the DAII Collector's Edition Guide says the Wardens began spreading the faith for the Chantry, but I recently moved so that book is in a trailer that is in transit currently and won't be arriving at my house until Wednesday.

So if your speculation is right, your other speculation is right? I kind of prefer to deal in facts, myself.

I may be misunderstanding you. I'm saying that if my speculation on the Chantry being the ones to move against the Wardens is correct, then that in fact does constitute them being greatly infuriated. Not being pleased would constitute a finger-wagging and maybe a stern lecture.

War against the Wardens constitutes a high level of infuriation.

[bigSarg]

IMO the Warden story is over, the blight is over so what is the point of following another story of the Warden, the DA world is big enough for more than one story and I like seeing that world through different eyes, with new and exciting environments (unlike DA2 reuse of maps), new enemies to battle and new stories to uncover. I personally am sick of darkspawn and the deep roads ( and mages and templars to be honest), I think Anders said it best "If I never see the deep roads again I'll die a happy man" or at least something to that effect. I don't mind if the Wardens or the Blight are mentioned but lets give that story a break, I have a feeling that DA3 will center around Orlais (sp?) it was mentioned in DA2 that there was some issue with Fereldan and Orlais. Or I would even like to quest in Tevinter (sp?), I'm sure there is plenty there to get involved with.

Edit: I am also wondering if DA3 will center around Hawke, since he/she is being hunted by the Chantry, it would be kind of kool if that leads to Orlais or Tevinter.  Maybe Cassandra meets up with Hawke in Orlais and joins the group, that would be awesome.

Modifié par bigSarg, 13 novembre 2011 - 06:56 .

[hoorayforicecream]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

So if your speculation is right, your other speculation is right? I kind of prefer to deal in facts, myself.

I may be misunderstanding you. I'm saying that if my speculation on the Chantry being the ones to move against the Wardens is correct, then that in fact does constitute them being greatly infuriated. Not being pleased would constitute a finger-wagging and maybe a stern lecture.

War against the Wardens constitutes a high level of infuriation.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

Verifiable: "If the Chantry is working against the Wardens, ergo they are clearly greatly infuriated by them"
Speculation: "The Chantry is greatly infuriated by the Wardens. They might be the ones who are moving against the Wardens"

The first logically follows, because the Chantry is actually demonstrated to be doing something. The second, which is what you said, does not. You said that the Chantry was greatly infuriated by the Warden's actions, but there is no evidence of this. You are basing its veracity on the veracity of your speculation. This is foolish because you're stating something as fact when it is not. It *could be*, but that isn't the same as fact until it is actually verified.

In other words: Presenting speculation as fact undermines your credibility.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 13 novembre 2011 - 06:53 .

[Lynata]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Were Ferelden to go to war with another country, the Wardens would be obligated to fight -- either actively or just in defense -- because the enemy nation would end up attacking them. The soldiers under them would be attacked and the citizens would suffer as well.

I'd say that the Wardens - being an international organization - would clearly retain neutrality in a conflict, much like the Chantry and its templars who also have a single leader for the lot of them. Even Circle Mages don't seem to participate in conventional warfare, as it's been hinted at that the Ferelden mages' support during the Orlesian occupation not extending beyond the enchantment of certain items for the rebels, basically smuggling this stuff out of the Tower and into the hands of the resistance.

Were it otherwise, you'd end up potentially having, say, Orlesian Wardens fighting Ferelden Wardens. Which would be real awkward and pretty much destroy the cohesion of the Grey Wardens as a united organization and undermine the First Warden's position as the overall commander.

The Wardens have no reason to join an attack because neutrality (and with it the freedom of travel and the right of conscription) is what keeps them strong, and no country has a reason to attack Warden assets because (a) they do not pose a challenge as they don't pick sides and ( it is in no-ones interest to hurt Thedas' primary defense against a Blight.

At least that's my interpretation.

Modifié par Lynata, 13 novembre 2011 - 07:07 .

[bigSarg]

If you remember DA2 when you meet up with the Wardens in ACT 2, they said they don't get involved in political issues, that's why they wouldn't get involved in the Quanari attack. This might have changed over time or might not have, but the current position of the Wardens is that they don't take political sides.

[Realmzmaster]

The Wardens in the Anderfels are involved in politics because of a weak monarchy. Riordan tells the Warden he wished it was not so. Those Wardens enjoy the power and having the citizenry look to them as the authority in the land. Other countries on the other hand have stronger governments and are not as inclined to see the Wardens become a political force. Therefore the Wardens in those countries had to adopt a neutral position.

The first commander takes an interest in Amaranthine in Awakenings. One of the reason may be to establish a political presence in Fereldren. This is speculation. I doubt many in Ferelden's government would be pleased with that possibility.

[hoorayforicecream]

I always thought that the keep at Amaranthine was more like part of the sovereignty of the Wardens, like how Vatican City is *in* Rome, but is actually its own sovereign nation, or how an embassy is considered part of the parent nation and not the nation it's built in.

[Wulfram]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I always thought that the keep at Amaranthine was more like part of the sovereignty of the Wardens, like how Vatican City is *in* Rome, but is actually its own sovereign nation, or how an embassy is considered part of the parent nation and not the nation it's built in.

It still seems to be subject to Ferelden's crown.  There are repeated references to the crown in Alec's case in "A day in court".  And the King/Queen still seem to be in charge when the Templar wants Anders at the start of the game.

[Realmzmaster]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I always thought that the keep at Amaranthine was more like part of the sovereignty of the Wardens, like how Vatican City is *in* Rome, but is actually its own sovereign nation, or how an embassy is considered part of the parent nation and not the nation it's built in.

The land was granted to the Wardens for their use by the Ferelden crown. The crown still holds the rights to the land. It is not a sovereign nation

[Lynata]

I suppose that's how it works everywhere. Same thing for the Chantry, too - although both organizations also seem to have certain rights beyond a sovereign's influence, such as templar immunity or, of course, the right of conscription.

Well, at least officially.

Modifié par Lynata, 14 novembre 2011 - 07:20 .

[dsl08002]

One of the many things that they should continue the wardens story is all your companions that you meet in Origins were exellent writen. Unlike ME you cant really experience the friendship that happens between character when you start on a new a new protaganist.

that is what i really like and that is that you have been part of this peoples lifes and you have builded a friendship between them or possible romance. you will see in the rest of the games if those bonds will be tested.

[Huntress]

Amaranthine was given to the warden's by the queen or King of ferelden because of howes killing the second most important family in ferelden "the couslands". the thing is who ever live in the castle/keep have control over the land and the city, thats why the warden have to rule the city of Ameranthine for a while until they find a ruler or until "Nat" sister go back to the keep to rule wich it happen in my games. She go back there and after that my warden is gone..

[Fidget6]

Of course the warden's story is over, as it should be.  It was wrapped up nicely in Origins.

Modifié par Fidget6, 15 novembre 2011 - 03:44 .

[AlexXIV]

Fidget6 wrote...

Of course the warden's story is over, as it should be.  It was wrapped up nicely in Origins.

Yeah that's why there wasn't an import option to Awakenings ...

Only thing wrapped up in DA:O was the Blight, and only for now.

[Atakuma]

AlexXIV wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Of course the warden's story is over, as it should be.  It was wrapped up nicely in Origins.

Yeah that's why there wasn't an import option to Awakenings ...

Only thing wrapped up in DA:O was the Blight, and only for now.

The blight is over and stopping the blight was the warden's purpose, therefor the wardens story is over. The import to Awakening was just fanservice.

Modifié par Atakuma, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:25 .

[Realmzmaster]

AlexXIV wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Of course the warden's story is over, as it should be.  It was wrapped up nicely in Origins.

Yeah that's why there wasn't an import option to Awakenings ...

Only thing wrapped up in DA:O was the Blight, and only for now.

Awakening was written for an Orlaisan Warden-Commander not the Warden. Parts of the fanbase were unhappy that they could not play with their Warden. Bioware relented and allowed fans to import their Warden from Origins. The only actions that were suppose to be imported were the some of the decisions that happen in Origins.

The Warden's story was over with the Blight. Just as Hawke's story will be over hopefully after any remaining DLC. DA3 with most likely have a new protaganist. The main character in Dragon Age is the world itself not any individual PC.

[Lynata]

Seems to be a taste thing. It is -always- possible to continue an established character's story.

However, will it be equally memorable as what has been achieved before? Doubtful. When things have to constantly get bigger and "more awesome", you're bound to reach ridiculous levels at some point.

Personally, whilst I would not be unhappy had I not been granted this option, I enjoyed playing Awakening with my Warden. I liked the idea that the character would now have authority and a keep and a city to manage - it did seem like a seamless transition for me, and a bit like a reward for what the character did in DA:O. You could say that I deemed it a worthy "retirement". Getting out once more to eliminate another threat was a mere bonus.

That said, Awakening was "only" an expansion, and I'm not sure it would have worked for a full game, which would necessarily have to feature more content. I would say that it's better to "stop when it's best" and start fresh with a new character rather than diminishing both the character and the setting as a whole by having a veteran Warden fight ever more dangerous versions of high dragons and arch-demons. I'd rather keep it simple and realistic, as I think this would make for superior immersion.

I would not have any problem with the occasional DLC throwing the Warden or the Champion into a new "short story", however, as long as it doesn't let things like the Blight look like a "starter quest".

[Teddie Sage]

AlexXIV wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Of course the warden's story is over, as it should be.  It was wrapped up nicely in Origins.

Yeah that's why there wasn't an import option to Awakenings ...

Only thing wrapped up in DA:O was the Blight, and only for now.

Importing was optional. New characters, anyone?

[AlexXIV]

Realmzmaster wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Of course the warden's story is over, as it should be.  It was wrapped up nicely in Origins.

Yeah that's why there wasn't an import option to Awakenings ...

Only thing wrapped up in DA:O was the Blight, and only for now.

Awakening was written for an Orlaisan Warden-Commander not the Warden. Parts of the fanbase were unhappy that they could not play with their Warden. Bioware relented and allowed fans to import their Warden from Origins. The only actions that were suppose to be imported were the some of the decisions that happen in Origins.

The Warden's story was over with the Blight. Just as Hawke's story will be over hopefully after any remaining DLC. DA3 with most likely have a new protaganist. The main character in Dragon Age is the world itself not any individual PC.

I never heard that one before. And even if Bioware changed Awakenings for the fanbase, it just means that people want to keep their characters in the sequel and that Bioware is inclined to serve people what they want. From my playthroughs though I must say that Awakenings fits the Hero of Ferelden better than some Orlesian Warden so they must have made that change early on. And also, what's done is done. The Hero of Ferelden story continues in Awakenings if he survives the Battle of Denerim. If you want to ignore that fact for some reason, go ahead.

I really think new protagonists every new game doesn't add to the game. I can see that Hawke was recieved with mixed feelings by the people and the new protagonist will be even more. Especially if every new hero is some sort of overpowerd superhero type. It's like you have one legend with everyone being a 'chosen one' type. Maybe if Bioware finally give us a hero from the people for the people, so to speak. Without destiny and divine help or whatever attached. But I am not going to hold my breath. It's probably once again the 'most important person of Thedas', take three.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 16 novembre 2011 - 09:06 .

[AlexXIV]

Teddie Sage wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Of course the warden's story is over, as it should be.  It was wrapped up nicely in Origins.

Yeah that's why there wasn't an import option to Awakenings ...

Only thing wrapped up in DA:O was the Blight, and only for now.

Importing was optional. New characters, anyone?

Yes it was optional. How does that qualify as the Warden's story being over? Yours maybe. Anyway, I played DA:O from release and it was already hinted in the epilogue that if your Warden survives his/her story is NOT over.