178 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Genshie wrote...

The only context you have on the story is delievered only through rough text. You have no dialouge, no pictures, no nothing to base how the delievey of it would be in the actual game itself so you saying that the story isn't reasonable based on text that only gives a general out-dated and narrowed viewed (not giving every solution, yes from the looks of this these are based off a default Shepard). All you can do is assume like the rest of us so don't act you know what is going to happen when its not even finished.

Actually the leaked files do list all possible solutions.  Some decisions in ME3 matter.  Never said otherwise, but your supposedly big decisions in ME1 and ME2 do NOT (at least not beyond superficial differences).

-Polaris

[nuspeed2020]

RiouHotaru wrote...

 You forget.  The people complaining about the datamine believe that the datamine covers ALL possible variables and ALL possible outcomes, so of course, they see what they believe is their decisions "not mattering".

However there's absolutely no evidence of this.  Nothing even in the leak gives any indication these are the sole choices and sole variables.

But it makes their arguments more valid, so they stick with it anyway.  After all, conceding to the possibility that you could be wrong is a terrible thing to do when making an argument! (not really, it actually makes your argument stronger when you can openly concede weakness)

I like this one, this one speaks the truth.....

[Kaiser Shepard]

Mesina2 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Microsoft didn't put the TLK files in this "Private Beta".

But Microsoft's incompetence made that Beta to be leaked.

Sure, but that was just an innocent beta. Microsoft still didn't include those story files.

[RiouHotaru]

IanPolaris wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Of course, but at least some of them should affect something. So far it's like the Ashley/Kaidan decision, which changed only a couple of lines, or the Destiny Ascension one.

Exactly my point.  The big decisions are taken away from you pretty much completely.  Way to respect your customers and be honest about their choices mattering (or not).

-Polaris

Here's the thing, how will we know much the choices do or don't actually matter until we PLAY THE GAME.  The TLK datamine is without context or application.  It's just lines stating possible intent, action, and outcome.  We don't know exactly how or if they'll be applied.  If we read the TLK (which you CAN do) for ME2 or it's DLC, we might find it doesn't read at all better than the ME3 datamine.

Content without context doesn't help your argument.

[onelifecrisis]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Microsoft didn't put the TLK files in this "Private Beta".

I have to kinda disagree with that sentiment. A demo that's never meant to be seen by the customer (in this case, the public) shouldn't need to be checked that carefully for extraneous files.

[KenKenpachi]

Well its not microsofts fault the storeline was packed into a Freakin demo, Who is more the Fool, the Fool, or the Fool who fallows him? Its like a game of the blind leading the blind. Bioware short of incompetance, shouldn't have had the files on a demo, old or not period. As to fan backlash, gee when its a crappy story that kills off fan faves, has a stupid ending option, and promotes "Realism" In a bloody scfi title, when most play ME for the Story not to pretend they are a space commando, they have the RIGHT to be pissed.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 08 novembre 2011 - 12:52 .

[CroGamer002]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Microsoft didn't put the TLK files in this "Private Beta".

But Microsoft's incompetence made that Beta to be leaked.

Sure, but that was just an innocent beta. Microsoft still didn't include those story files.

Bioware had no reason to remove or crypt TLK files in private Beta that shouldn't have never been seen by public eye.


This story leak is entirely to be blamed on Microsoft incompetence.

[Genshie]

IanPolaris wrote...

Genshie wrote...

The only context you have on the story is delievered only through rough text. You have no dialouge, no pictures, no nothing to base how the delievey of it would be in the actual game itself so you saying that the story isn't reasonable based on text that only gives a general out-dated and narrowed viewed (not giving every solution, yes from the looks of this these are based off a default Shepard). All you can do is assume like the rest of us so don't act you know what is going to happen when its not even finished.

Actually the leaked files do list all possible solutions.  Some decisions in ME3 matter.  Never said otherwise, but your supposedly big decisions in ME1 and ME2 do NOT (at least not beyond superficial differences).

-Polaris

And once again you are ASSUMING that everything is listed on this script alone. I don't think that what you read is all that could be happening once again it has been said to be out dated so some of the solutions may have been changed or thrown out the window. Like everyone else you can only guess. The script can't be taken 100% seriously and the fact that it seems like you do and you assuming the story will be bad based off a story board rough draft without gameplay, without the visuals, without the voice work, and ect.. is very sad. Most things sound bad when it comes to shows or games when you just have it on script alone and tossing ideas around.

[KenKenpachi]

Mesina2 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Microsoft didn't put the TLK files in this "Private Beta".

But Microsoft's incompetence made that Beta to be leaked.

Sure, but that was just an innocent beta. Microsoft still didn't include those story files.

Bioware had no reason to remove or crypt TLK files in private Beta that shouldn't have never been seen by public eye.


This story leak is entirely to be blamed on Microsoft incompetence.

Oh and not Bioware for having them there in the first place?

That makes alot of sense @_@

[CroGamer002]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

GodWood wrote...

On the bright side I know I can murder Liara.


That earns them a purchase.

So it was written, so shall it be.

You mean like this and this?


If ME2 Beta was leaked 4 months before release with files that are at least 4-5 months out of date like this Beta, I'm sure as hell half of stuff we seen in ME2 wouldn't even be there and most of this stuff would be in those files.

[CroGamer002]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Oh and not Bioware for having them there in the first place?

That makes alot of sense @_@

So that they can test the damn game on XBOX360 and Microsoft has rules for that?

[IanPolaris]

Genshie wrote...
And once again you are ASSUMING that everything is listed on this script alone. I don't think that what you read is all that could be happening once again it has been said to be out dated so some of the solutions may have been changed or thrown out the window. Like everyone else you can only guess. The script can't be taken 100% seriously and the fact that it seems like you do and you assuming the story will be bad based off a story board rough draft without gameplay, without the visuals, without the voice work, and ect.. is very sad. Most things sound bad when it comes to shows or games when you just have it on script alone and tossing ideas around.

I know how games are made, and the main plot is the first thing to be finalized and the thing that is hardest to change late in developement since any changes in the main plot have a cascade effect all the way down the production line.  I also know that the files were from a nearly final Demo (and I HAVE seen much of the video from that Demo but I am aware the the video is only from one possible PoV).  Given all of that, and given how both Bioware and MS are reacting, I have no reason NOT to think that this isn't the final (or nearly final) script.  Any changes at this late stage can only be superficial at best...unless the release date is set back once again...likely by many months (at best...and I don't think that's something that BW can afford to do).

So my take is that of the husband that walks in and sees his wife in bed with his best friend.  Who's he going to believe?  His friend or his "lying" eyes.  I go with my "lying" eyes.

-Polaris

[Rykoth]

Ian, I'm going to ask a simple question.

How is it fair that the decisions of ME1/ME2 would matter anyway?

I'm not mentioning any spoilers, because I'm already forgetting them from my accidental glance last night. (and personally, the people responsible for doing this should be shamed for possibly ruining the game for so many since some are quick to judge on lines of text.)

Let's use a hypothetical scenario that all the decisions of the past two games matter in huge ways.

So say you don't play ME1 or ME2. You didn't make the decisions, and therefore, if say, you're entering the series at number 3, you just cannot get say... the good guy prevails and everyone celebrates ending. Fom the perspective of a new entrant into the series, it isn't fair, and wouldn't be right to force people to retroactively play just so that they can get their desired say, ending in ME3.

Next point I'd offer.

Have you played ME3? No? Okay. Don't judge until you play it. The people who are sitting there and reading choppy and potentially unfinished text and saying "OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING" need to take a chill pill, sit back, and wait until March. It would be one thing if it was written like say, a novel, with excruiciating detail and sounding like crap, but its not. From all indication its rough notes and maybe some dialogue. Unspoken, unvoiced, without true context.

So how can you judge? You can't, and unless you work at Bioware and have likely seen all of this in its true form, with all the context, then I'd suggest stop blowing a gasket.

And DA2? Yeah, DA2 wasn't the best game. It was rushed, and the recycled environments made it old quickly. It was also rushed, did I not mention that? ME3 thus far has yet to be rushed, and has a different dev team.

So... really, all I can say is, people on this forum need to take a friggin chill pill and stop freaking out over nothing. Be angry at Microsoft for leaking the demo. Be angry at the morons for datamining and spoiling the world. Don't be angry at Bioware until you've actually played the game.

[KenKenpachi]

Rykoth wrote...

.....


So... really, all I can say is, people on this forum need to take a friggin chill pill and stop freaking out over nothing. Be angry at Microsoft for leaking the demo. Be angry at the morons for datamining and spoiling the world. Don't be angry at Bioware until you've actually played the game.

SO Far I actully if not for having money on the damn game, wouldn't want to play it more and more I find. Having my team killed off reguardless isn't fun, having to do the VS **** again isn't fun, being stuck mostly with people I don't like on my team isn't fun, turning into a ****in Reaper isn't fun. Its all Bull****. I play games for fun, and the story where the hero win's.

I'm still sticking with it however as I hope all of that changes. Or that we have ways to avoid key deaths, with the right "Score" or choices.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 08 novembre 2011 - 01:04 .

[RiouHotaru]

(Referring to Ian's post about comparing the game script to a husband finding his wife possibly cheating on him)

...Not even a good comparison, and again, as someone pointed out by posting the links to Did's work, plenty of stuff never made it into the final build of ME2, most of which is STILL in the game's files.

Again, stated now, and I'll state it again: Info simply being in the TLK does NOT guarantee it's in the final game.

The fact Jessie has stated it's "outdated" means it's not the final draft of the script anyway. Since we don't know which of the information is good and which was scrapped, the safest thing to do is ignore it altogether.

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 08 novembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[jamesp81]

TheDaniellasaur wrote...

Just been thinking. First of all, their unfinished beta gets released accidently then their story for ME3 gets leaked. Maybe they need to up their security or just get the idiot who's been leaking it to the public out!

Or quit dealing with MS.  That's where the leak occurred.  I have to wonder if MS did it on purpose, or if they really suck that much.

If I were a writer at BW, I'd be monumentally pissed right about now.

[Kaiser Shepard]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Microsoft didn't put the TLK files in this "Private Beta".

I have to kinda disagree with that sentiment. A demo that's never meant to be seen by the customer (in this case, the public) shouldn't need to be checked that carefully for extraneous files.

Then don't upload it to a public network, just keep it contained to a managable amount ot USB-sticks.

Mesina2 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

GodWood wrote...

On the bright side I know I can murder Liara.


That earns them a purchase.

So it was written, so shall it be.

You mean like this and this?


If ME2 Beta was leaked 4 months before release with files that are at least 4-5 months out of date like this Beta, I'm sure as hell half of stuff we seen in ME2 wouldn't even be there and most of this stuff would be in those files.

Nah, just wishful thinking when it comes to Liara. ^^

[Augustei]

TheDaniellasaur wrote...

Just been thinking. First of all, their unfinished beta gets released accidently then their story for ME3 gets leaked. Maybe they need to up their security or just get the idiot who's been leaking it to the public out!

Maybe they need to permanently shut down the Bioware Russian Branch lol - thats where the leaks all seem to happen... at least thats what I got from what I read

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 08 novembre 2011 - 01:07 .

[jamesp81]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

.....


So... really, all I can say is, people on this forum need to take a friggin chill pill and stop freaking out over nothing. Be angry at Microsoft for leaking the demo. Be angry at the morons for datamining and spoiling the world. Don't be angry at Bioware until you've actually played the game.

SO Far I actully if not for having money on the damn game, wouldn't want to play it more and more I find. Having my team killed off reguardless isn't fun, having to do the VS **** again isn't fun, being stuck mostly with people I don't like on my team isn't fun, turning into a ****in Reaper isn't fun. Its all Bull****. I play games for fun, and the story where the hero win's.

I'm still sticking with it however as I hope all of that changes.

I agree completely with you, except that we don't know for sure that we're forced into those things.  What was released is an early draft and very incomplete.  We're probably seeing only a small number of possible outcomes and story arcs.  Many of those story arcs probably won't even be in the final game at all.

I'll wait for the game to come out.  If I come to BSN and find out that all that stuff is forced, then I'll know to save my money and play something else.  Until then, I know nothing.

[IanPolaris]

Rykoth wrote...

Ian, I'm going to ask a simple question.

How is it fair that the decisions of ME1/ME2 would matter anyway?

It is entirely fair.  It is what Bioware promised us.  If they didn't want those decisions to matter, don't allow us to make them and don't tell them that they actually will matter if they don't.

I'm not mentioning any spoilers, because I'm already forgetting them from my accidental glance last night. (and personally, the people responsible for doing this should be shamed for possibly ruining the game for so many since some are quick to judge on lines of text.)

Let's use a hypothetical scenario that all the decisions of the past two games matter in huge ways.

So say you don't play ME1 or ME2. You didn't make the decisions, and therefore, if say, you're entering the series at number 3, you just cannot get say... the good guy prevails and everyone celebrates ending. Fom the perspective of a new entrant into the series, it isn't fair, and wouldn't be right to force people to retroactively play just so that they can get their desired say, ending in ME3.

There are many ways this can be handled.  The two most obvious are:

1.  Default Shepard.  This is how ME2 was originally released and it worked fine.

2.  Allow the player to interactively make those choices in a quick sequence at the start of the game (like Genesis only done better).

Next point I'd offer.

Have you played ME3? No? Okay. Don't judge until you play it. The people who are sitting there and reading choppy and potentially unfinished text and saying "OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING" need to take a chill pill, sit back, and wait until March. It would be one thing if it was written like say, a novel, with excruiciating detail and sounding like crap, but its not. From all indication its rough notes and maybe some dialogue. Unspoken, unvoiced, without true context.

I have actually seen the beta version of ME3 and from what I've seen it's as bad as advertised.  I was withholding judgement since the visual fine tuning are often the last (and easist) things to fix, but the story is almost certainly in the (near) final state by this late stage.

So how can you judge? You can't, and unless you work at Bioware and have likely seen all of this in its true form, with all the context, then I'd suggest stop blowing a gasket.

I can judge very well based on the lateness of the date, the amount of evidence, and Bioware's (and Microsoft's) reactions as well as other recent Bioware game.  Others (such as Game Informer) are making judgements too.

And DA2? Yeah, DA2 wasn't the best game. It was rushed, and the recycled environments made it old quickly. It was also rushed, did I not mention that? ME3 thus far has yet to be rushed, and has a different dev team.

ME2 came out in 2010.  ME3 was supposed to come out this year.  That seems rushed to me.

So... really, all I can say is, people on this forum need to take a friggin chill pill and stop freaking out over nothing. Be angry at Microsoft for leaking the demo. Be angry at the morons for datamining and spoiling the world. Don't be angry at Bioware until you've actually played the game.

Who are you going to believe?  Bioware or your "lying eyes"?

-Polaris

[RiouHotaru]

Wait...Ian. You're judging the final quality of the gameplay...based on a rough beta that wasn't meant to be played by public yet? What?

And you know Ian, it's not all or nothing. There is a middle option:

'Reserve judgment'

[CroGamer002]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Nah, just wishful thinking when it comes to Liara. ^^

You know, I don't mind for Laira to die in ME3.



But still, this leaked Beta outdates E3 so you can't expect more then half of stuff we seen to be in final product.

[Rykoth]

You watched a demo that's getting released soon,and isn't the whole game.

And paper is not the game. Words on a word document, is not the game. The game is something, in its entirety, you have yet to play. So again, my words still stand.

[RiouHotaru]

Rykoth wrote...

You watched a demo that's getting released soon,and isn't the whole game.

And paper is not the game. Words on a word document, is not the game. The game is something, in its entirety, you have yet to play. So again, my words still stand.

Rykoth, there's no point.  Apparently judgment can be passed based on just this information, and the jumbled mess that is the TLK is apparently the gospel Word of God.  It's become an all or nothing deal for folks now.

You're right, in that waiting and seeing is the best option, but if folks want to back out now, let them.  It won't affect us.

[IanPolaris]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Wait...Ian. You're judging the final quality of the gameplay...based on a rough beta that wasn't meant to be played by public yet? What?

And you know Ian, it's not all or nothing. There is a middle option:

'Reserve judgment'

"Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."  I "reserved judgement" on Dragon Age 2.

Fooled me once.

Never again.  Until Bioware regains my trust, I will consider the worst possible scenario/interpretation to be the most accurate especially when the bulk of the available evidence backs this.  I hadn't really commented (much) on the game play because I was aware it was a beta, but it did increase my anxiety.  The leaked plot pushed it over the edge since I know that the "old" plot is almost certainly not that old.  Yes minor details may differ, but the leaked story is almost certainly the straight skinny.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 08 novembre 2011 - 01:18 .