999 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex_SM]

1136342t54 wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

You'd better assume every videogame developer or editor (or well, every company in every kind of business in the whole world) lie most of the time.

Lying is part of business. 

Then you get into a idiotic habit of assuming every single game sucks.

No, you form an opinion based in what you see and not in what they tell you. Because everything anyone related to the game is going to tell you is just marketting, and marketting is essentially lying. 

Don't remember what happened with the last Indiana Jones movie? Shia Labeauf said while promoting it "It's awesome, it fits the spirit of the old Indiana Jones trilogy". Then some months after the release, when the box office run ended and all the money was made, he said confessed he never liked it, not even before the release and that they gone off the mark by miles. 

Lying before releases is just part of business. Everything MUST look awesome, and even more if it's not. It would be pretty dumb to do the opposite. 

When something is leaked the story is mostly the same. The devs (or the movie studio, or whoever suffered the leak) make a believable story and tell everyone why should not be worry about what they see. It doesn't matter if the leak shows important info or not, or if it's old or new, the story is never the truth. It's called damage control, every company in every business in the world do it. 

And that doesn't necesarry mean they are lying this time. Just that they would say it's an old build no matter if it's true or false, because they just can't say it's the newest beta they have. No company in the whole world would admitt that. It may be true or not, and we will never know. 

Modifié par Alex_SM, 11 novembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[Niddy']

How's damage control going?

Obviously not very well; it was cool to see that choices don't really matter and much of the previous story told is going to be retcon.

Modifié par Niddy', 11 novembre 2011 - 12:18 .

[IanPolaris]

Niddy' wrote...

How's damage control going?

Obviously never very well; it was cool to see that choices don't really matter and much of the previous story told is going to be retcon.

It seems to be going wonderfully.  We are now up to claiming that invalidating and retconning player choices (contrary to Bioware promises) now makes it Game of the Year material.

Nice.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Alex_SM wrote...

You'd better assume every videogame developer or editor (or well, every company in every kind of business in the whole world) lie most of the time.

Lying is part of business. 

I do.  It's just that of late Bioware has been particularly obvious about it IMHO.

-Polaris

[Someone With Mass]

Niddy' wrote...

How's damage control going?

Obviously not very well; it was cool to see that choices don't really matter and much of the previous story told is going to be retcon.

Oh, FFS. Are people really this dumb?

Slurring out the word "retcon" without a second thought at all?

[Niddy']

1136342t54 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
And how exactly do you know it's from a 6 months old build? Because BioWare said so? And you really trust BioWare's word on that?

Why would a 6 months old build leak now? Why not 6 months ealier?

So what I should trust? Some random person on the internet who I don't know other than this initial post that is questioning my trust or Faith. This same BSN poster has almost no real support for his or her claims.

Then again this BSN poster has questioned my faith in Bioware. I am far more likely to trust a company who has proven its skill and ability to create enjoyable games time and time again (yes I enjoyed DA2 for what it was).

So yes in short I rather trust Bioware instead of you. No offense but you are less trustworthy than Bioware unless I literally assume everything they say is a lie. If it is I wouldn't even be on these forums at all and hell you shouldn't be either since everything they say is a lie ME3 must suck ass.

Now if you were paying attention you would know that Battlefield 3 had a beta code for ME3 January demo. It was likely at that point the old build was already on the 360 and possibly a few other systems for a while now since they could always be replaced by a new demo or simply just modified. To be honest I have little clue how they did it but its obvious Microsoft screwed up and leaked the beta. Hell its obvious its a freaking 6 month old build since we have seen the EXACT SAME GAMEPLAY months ago. Hell before E3 I think a Bioware dev stated they were basically pretty much done with the basics gameplay but they had to polish a lot more and modify some things.
 

You trust the data until proven otherwise.

Remember when they said they weren't doing Multiplayer?  When they show story data that proves this to be wrong then believe them. Otherwise you're willingly ignorant, like trusting Sony or Valve's word after they let your credit card information be compromised.

Modifié par Niddy', 11 novembre 2011 - 12:24 .

[Niddy']

Someone With Mass wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

How's damage control going?

Obviously not very well; it was cool to see that choices don't really matter and much of the previous story told is going to be retcon.

Oh, FFS. Are people really this dumb?

Slurring out the word "retcon" without a second thought at all?

Generalization and ad hominem.

Are people really this confrontational when someone has a differing opinon and concern about something they've invested time and money in?

Modifié par Niddy', 11 novembre 2011 - 12:27 .

[IanPolaris]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

How's damage control going?

Obviously not very well; it was cool to see that choices don't really matter and much of the previous story told is going to be retcon.

Oh, FFS. Are people really this dumb?

Slurring out the word "retcon" without a second thought at all?

When it comes to things like Counciler Udina (and many others) retcon is the only word for it.  In DA2 Lelianna's survival was a blatent retcon.  From what I've seen ME3 is full of them.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[Someone With Mass]

IanPolaris wrote...
When it comes to things like Counciler Udina (and many others) retcon is the only word for it.  In DA2 Lelianna's survival was a blatent retcon.  From what I've seen ME3 is full of them.

-Polaris

Okay, there's a difference (a huge one at that) between a retcon and things that happened bewteen the time periods that we know about.

[IanPolaris]

Someone With Mass wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
When it comes to things like Counciler Udina (and many others) retcon is the only word for it.  In DA2 Lelianna's survival was a blatent retcon.  From what I've seen ME3 is full of them.

-Polaris

Okay, there's a difference (a huge one at that) between a retcon and things that happened bewteen the time periods that we know about.

I disagree.  As far as I am concerned it's exactly the same at least in effect.  The devs take a huge steaming dump on the player's choice in the prior game making it irrelevant and contrary to what was promised to the customer.

-Polaris

[Blacklash93]

They're not retcons. A retcon undoes something that is previously established with no justification.

These are treated as story developments. Even Leliana would be one if her ressurection is explained. They're cheap developments that make your choices meaningless, but developments all the same.

[NuclearBuddha]

It's impressive how these dialogues have different paths for all the possible outcomes of the previous games.

[IanPolaris]

Blacklash93 wrote...

They're not retcons. A retcon undoes something that is previously established with no justification.

These are treated as story developments. Even Leliana would be one if her ressurection is explained. They're cheap developments that make your choices meaningless, but developments all the same.

Then it's a retcon.  If an important choice is made irrelevant, then it's a retcon at least in my book.  Either way it disrspects the player's prior choice and is contrary to the promises that we were given.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

It's impressive how these dialogues have different paths for all the possible outcomes of the previous games.

I think it's impressive how much they were able to invalidate all our past choices (and not in a good way).

-Polaris

[Niddy']

Blacklash93 wrote...

They're not retcons. A retcon undoes something that is previously established with no justification.

What they've done to the reapers is a retcon, i don't care what excuse "justification" they've made for it.

[1136342t54_]

Alex_SM wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

You'd better assume every videogame developer or editor (or well, every company in every kind of business in the whole world) lie most of the time.

Lying is part of business. 

Then you get into a idiotic habit of assuming every single game sucks.

No, you form an opinion based in what you see and not in what they tell you. Because everything anyone related to the game is going to tell you is just marketting, and marketting is essentially lying. 

That is what competent people usually do period in regards to gameplay anyway. The previous argument has little to do with the actual marketing but whether or not a simple statement by bioware was true or not in regards to the build. Like I said before I am more liable to take Bioware's statement on it then his due to prior information on the development of ME3 and actual gameplay footage.

This isn't really about looking awesome about a accidental leak unfortunately that was never supposed to happen because it was accidental. Now if you will assume its not accidental then more power to you but don't expect me to believe it. If your going to make an assumption that the leak build is only maybe 1 or 2 months old then I'd have to disagree with you since I'm going by multiple gameplay vids I've seen. Most leaks are usually maybe a few weeks before the actual game and they are likely the same story. This one is months before it and is a old rough draft of the game. Since Bioware ME  team usually change many things in regards to the story usually its not impossible for it to not be a final look at the game.

Plus from what I've been hearing many think its pretty good but what was leaked lack a lot of context and show only bits and pieces of the story based off of a default playthrough.

No I didn't skim your post but this is just the main crux of it.

[NuclearBuddha]

IanPolaris wrote...
I think it's impressive how much they were able to invalidate all our past choices (and not in a good way).

-Polaris

It would be great if BW could make several radically different games, each one catering to a distinct set of choices from previous installments.  But I don't think the market supports it.

So instead, I plan on enjoying seeing how all my choices affect the details in the story.

[IanPolaris]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
I think it's impressive how much they were able to invalidate all our past choices (and not in a good way).

-Polaris

It would be great if BW could make several radically different games, each one catering to a distinct set of choices from previous installments.  But I don't think the market supports it.

So instead, I plan on enjoying seeing how all my choices affect the details in the story.

Except they don't and that's the point.  The Rachni Arc is a prime example.

-Polaris

Edit PS: In fact the Rachni are a great example of a retcon by any definition if you took the paragon choice in ME1 based on what you were told by the Rachni in ME2.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 11 novembre 2011 - 12:51 .

[NuclearBuddha]

1136342t54 wrote...
This one is months before it and is a old rough draft of the game. Since Bioware ME  team usually change many things in regards to the story usually its not impossible for it to not be a final look at the game.

The "rough draft" appears to be substantially less fleshed-out than (and contradicted in places by) the new leak as well.

[NuclearBuddha]

IanPolaris wrote...
Except they don't and that's the point.  The Rachni Arc is a prime example.

-Polaris

You've played it, then?  Maybe you could PM me the full details (since, you know, spoilers).  It won't take long, since I guess there won't be any variation between the options.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 11 novembre 2011 - 12:51 .

[Niddy']

IanPolaris wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
I think it's impressive how much they were able to invalidate all our past choices (and not in a good way).

-Polaris

It would be great if BW could make several radically different games, each one catering to a distinct set of choices from previous installments.  But I don't think the market supports it.

So instead, I plan on enjoying seeing how all my choices affect the details in the story.

Except they don't and that's the point.  The Rachni Arc is a prime example.

-Polaris

Edit PS: In fact the Rachni are a great example of a retcon by any definition if you took the paragon choice in ME1 based on what you were told by the Rachni in ME2.

And if you let Wrex die, the Krogan fail regardless of what you do. As well with the collector base, and the geth, and genophage, and the quarians.

[IanPolaris]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Except they don't and that's the point.  The Rachni Arc is a prime example.

-Polaris

You've played it, then?  Maybe you could PM me the full details (since, you know, spoilers).  It won't take long, since I guess there won't be any variation between the options.

If you've read both sets of spoilers then you know exactly what I mean, so don't be cheeky.  Your choice in ME1 doesn't matter at all, and the game LIES to you in ME2.

-Polaris

[1136342t54_]

Niddy' wrote...

You trust the data until proven otherwise.

The post was about whether I should trust some random poster or Bioware. I'm more likely leaning towards bioware since some of there statements is backed up by gameplay.

Remember when they said they weren't doing Multiplayer? 

They never seemed to have said that. Show me the quote.

When they show story data that proves this to be wrong then believe them. Otherwise you're willingly ignorant, like trusting Sony or Valve's word after they let your credit card information be compromised.

So I'm willingly ignorant for likely having more faith in Bioware than a random poster? Read the post so you can have more information on the actual argument. I have looked at the information (mostly gameplay) I was given and reached a conclusion that Bioware is more than likely correct.

Sorry if I came to a conclusion that is against your opinion. Its not necessarily 100% trust. If I say I have some faith that Bioware can make a good game then every single Bioware game I have played which is good and some of things I've seen from ME3 shows it could be great makes me think they will at the very least make a good game.