343 replies to this topic

[alex90c]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

alex90c wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I found Merrill's braindead character just infuriating.

Seven years later in Kirkwall: "HURDURHUR IM STUPID GUYS"

Nope, don't recall her ever being stupid in Act 3. Or in the whole game really.

Just how I *don't* recall myself ever wanting to repeatedly whack her with a spade to beat the naive out of her.

Naivety =/= stupidity. It does however equal inexperience with the world.

And that's natural for Merrill. She's lived in her clan for her whole life, and she's never really fit in. Only a few other clan members were friendly -- which isn't the same as being her friends -- with her. Her clan has never seen fit to lie and trick people, because they've never been near humans and have never seen the need.

Her first year in Kirkwall, she doesn't pick up on these things because she doesn't understand the need for them. Again, that's kinda natural. And personally, I find it adorable that she's inexperienced. It makes things funny in a sort of "Oh you" type of way.

She's smart enough though to realize that if she was by herself and tried to go to Kirkwall she wouldn't make it.

But over the years, her friendship with Varric and Isabela (and potentially Hawke) helps her to become more comfortable with life. She ceases to be naive and becomes more experienced. She's able to pick up on sarcasm and jokes more easily.

Confidence is another issue. In her clan, she was definitely confident. Although she never quite fit in -- which might be due to her being from another clan and going to Marethari's when she was 4 -- she has no qualms about telling off Master Ilen, Hahren Paivel, and eventually Keeper Marethari.

Again, her lack of confidence outside the clan is understandable. She's never dealt with humans or city elves before. The only city elf she's ever known is Pol. But just hanging out with one city Elf isn't enough to know how to act around them all.

And again, this is where her own experience in the Alienage and her friendship with Varric and Isabela helps her to grow. By Act 3, she has friends within the Alienage, Nyssa being one.

It seems to boil down to you willing to excuse her mistakes while I'm less willing. I think the voice and the way she acts were the real nail in the coffin though, it feels like she doesn't even try to sound intelligent.

[TEWR]

TeenZombie wrote...


I didn't remember that, but I did remember that she forgot it in MotA.  It appears that the writers want her to be forgetful and innocent and silly forever.  

I saw that as her just making a little playful joke and not actually being serious about it.

Or her thinking that wherever Hawke goes, it might be best to bring twine just because Hawke gets into all sorts of ****.

I would not want any love interest to be attached to my character forever.  Especially since the Maker demands that Hawke goes off into some void with the Warden, alone, no matter what...

Well, Varric did say that the only person to not leave Hawke's side was the LI, so the LI should always be with Hawke.

My prediction is that Merrill's Eluvian won't work, but she'll find another one somewhere very far away from Kirkwall after the ending and it'll be working or workable with a little bit of magic from Merrill. And if she's in a romance with Hawke, she'll go with him and study it from the other side. If not, she'll stay behind and study it.

This way, people who Rivaled Merrill still have their choice matter. IIRC, Merrill gives up on her particular Eluvian, but not the Eluvians as a whole.

But if I'm wrong and she did give up on the Eluvians as a whole, I'll have to think of something else.

[SinnSly]

Plus I do admire her passion to fix the mirror, she wanted to restore her Elven history and learn more about the Elven ancestors, also the fact I find Dalish Elves fascinating

(Plus her and Marian are adorable together!)

[TEWR]

It seems to boil down to you willing to excuse her mistakes while I'm less willing. I think the voice and the way she acts were the real nail in the coffin though, it feels like she doesn't even try to sound intelligent.

being inexperienced isn't a mistake, nor am I excusing it. I'm simply looking at it from the understandable point of view.

I wouldn't expect her to know how to act around humans and City Elves if she's supposed to have been with the clan her whole life and the only people who do interact with the humans are the craftsmasters and sometimes the Keeper.

That just wouldn't make sense for her to be that experienced.

[Sunnie]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I think some of the hate for DAII gets misdirected at characters people personally don't like and Merrill is unfortunately one of those characters.

That could be said for all of the characters, including Hawke. There are some real Hawke haterz around the BSN.

[jlb524]

TeenZombie wrote...

I saw Hawke as being too influential on her personal mission.  I've done the friendship and rivalry paths (never romanced), but either way, at the end, she defers to Hawke's judgement.

I really would not have minded if she had been angry at Hawke on the rivalry path, too.  It felt abusive and awful to me.

She doesn't defer to Hawke more than any of the others.  I would say she defers less and she does what she wants to do regardless of what Hawke says, changing her mind only at the end (when things go really poorly).

She was definitely angry with Hawke on the rivalry path.

TeenZombie wrote...
I know that she has plenty of fans, and to each their own, but I'm just giving my honest opinion of how she came off to me.  When I first saw her ingame I couldn't stand her.  Over time, she grew on me, but the silly and innocent and cute thing will never be something that I find attractive.

Would she be a better character, in your opinion, if she was broody/angsty...something like Morrigan?

SinnSly wrote...

Plus I do admire her passion to fix the mirror, she wanted to restore her Elven history and learn more about the
Elven ancestors, also the fact I find Dalish Elves fascinating

(Plus her and Marian are adorable together!)

Agreed.

I think some people's opinion of Merrill depend on their opinion of Dalish Elves.  Most simply don't like them (I do, ofc).

Edited by jlb524, 08 November 2011 - 09:48 PM.

[SinnSly]

jlb524 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

I saw Hawke as being too influential on her personal mission.  I've done the friendship and rivalry paths (never romanced), but either way, at the end, she defers to Hawke's judgement.

I really would not have minded if she had been angry at Hawke on the rivalry path, too.  It felt abusive and awful to me.

She doesn't defer to Hawke more than any of the others.  I would say she defers less and she does what she wants to do regardless of what Hawke says, changing her mind only at the end (when things go really poorly).

She was definitely angry with Hawke on the rivalry path.

TeenZombie wrote...
I know that she has plenty of fans, and to each their own, but I'm just giving my honest opinion of how she came off to me.  When I first saw her ingame I couldn't stand her.  Over time, she grew on me, but the silly and innocent and cute thing will never be something that I find attractive.

Would she be a better character, in your opinion, if she was broody/angsty...something like Morrigan?

SinnSly wrote...

Plus I do admire her passion to fix the mirror, she wanted to restore her Elven history and learn more about the
Elven ancestors, also the fact I find Dalish Elves fascinating

(Plus her and Marian are adorable together!)

Agreed.

I think some people's opinion of Merrill depend on their opinion of Dalish Elves.  Most simply don't like them (I do, ofc).

Merrill just doesn't suit broody/angsty plus it's covered by Fenris..

Dalish are so intersting, heck I am even trying to learn Elven! 

[TEWR]

jlb524 wrote...

Would she be a better character, in your opinion, if she was broody/angsty...something like Morrigan?

Oh god... I know this isn't directed at me but I would absolutely abhor that. And I love Morrigan. I love Merrill more though. But, Morrigan is more of just a **** than an actual broody person. 

DAII already has 2 broody/angsty characters. I wouldn't want Merrill to also be broody and angsty, which imo is what Rivalry does to her.

So I would hate for Merrill to be broody or Morrigan 2.0. I think people dislike Merrill partially because she doesn't tell everyone to go **** themselves like Morrigan did to almost everyone.

Agreed.

I think some people's opinion of Merrill depend on their opinion of Dalish Elves.  Most simply don't like them (I do, ofc).

My opinion on the Dalish Elves is fairly neutral. Their story is interesting, but their elven superiority complex just pisses me off.

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

My opinion on the Dalish Elves is fairly neutral. Their story is interesting, but their elven superiority complex just pisses me off.

Well, yeah...that sucks.

But I like them in general because they refuse to submit to human rule and culture, for starters.   Also, elven history is a complete mystery and the Dalish are the people who live to restore it and keep it alive.

[Zjarcal]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I think some of the hate for DAII gets misdirected at characters people personally don't like and Merrill is unfortunately one of those characters.

That could be said for all of the characters, including Hawke. There are some real Hawke haterz around the BSN.

Tell me about it...

Oh, Merrill is awesome, that's my opinion. 

[TEWR]

jlb524 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

My opinion on the Dalish Elves is fairly neutral. Their story is interesting, but their elven superiority complex just pisses me off.

Well, yeah...that sucks.

But I like them in general because they refuse to submit to human rule and culture, for starters.   Also, elven history is a complete mystery and the Dalish are the people who live to restore it and keep it alive.

Yea. I like how their past is a mystery, but I'm more interested in the Dwarves. Specifically those Dwarves of the Primeval Thaig.

I think the Dwarves were the cause of the Darkspawn.

Actually, I think the Dalish just need more screen time for me to really care. They didn't have much imo.

[SinnSly]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I think some of the hate for DAII gets misdirected at characters people personally don't like and Merrill is unfortunately one of those characters.

That could be said for all of the characters, including Hawke. There are some real Hawke haterz around the BSN.

Tell me about it...

Oh, Merrill is awesome, that's my opinion. 

I only hate Garrett Hawke, him and Merrill just makes him seem like a weird pervy creeper...
I dunno why people hate Hawke, Marian is amazing in my opinion, she looks sexy and her voice is lovely~
Marian is the best Hawke I say!

Edited by SinnSly, 08 November 2011 - 10:07 PM.

[Mr.House]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

SinnSly wrote...

I only hate Garrett Hawke, him and Merrill just makes him seem like a weird pervy creeper...

How exactly is Hawke "a weird pervy creeper"? He seems nothing like that to me.

It's how Boulton voices the lines for Merrills romance. rubs me the wrong way personly.

Edited by Mr.House, 08 November 2011 - 10:13 PM.

[syllogi]

jlb524 wrote...

Would she be a better character, in your opinion, if she was broody/angsty...something like Morrigan?

I like Morrigan, but Merrill doesn't have to be like Morrigan at all, to be likeable.  I'd love to see young, cute and innocent done, without it morphing into woefully naive and even ignorant, as a trope attributed to young female characters. I don't like the "innocent=dumb" Gracie Allen schtick, and you almost always see this being tacked on a woman in fiction.

My favorite comic book character when I was a kid was Kitty Pryde, because she was smart and capable, despite being young, and somewhat innocent, but she was raised in a pretty normal family, and was well adjusted, and her personality reflected that.  Morrigan had a pretty crappy upbringing, and was kind of jaded and bitter because of it.  Merrill is very different, and was raised differently, but I just can't relate to her, because I don't understand how she can be *that* naive, when the rest of her clan doesn't appear to be, and Marethari doesn't appear to have trapped her in a bubble for her first twenty years or so.

Basically, I get why Morrigan is the way she is, or Velanna, even.  I don't "get" Merrill, and I would have liked to learn more about her beyond her quest to fix the Eluvian, in order to get to know her better.

[SinnSly]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

SinnSly wrote...

I only hate Garrett Hawke, him and Merrill just makes him seem like a weird pervy creeper...

How exactly is Hawke "a weird pervy creeper"? He seems nothing like that to me.

The way Garrett looks, he just looks way older than her, make her look like a little child to an old man >.<
To me he is just a creeper with Merrill... I'm a MarianXMerrill fangirl~

[SinnSly]

Still seems like a creeper in a way...
I know you can but Marian's voice is soo perfect for default 1 & 2, I always go for default 2 myself, the scar makes her seem a bit more sexy

[DrFumb1ezX]

I love her to pieces, my favorite character in the whole game.

And to each his/her own with Hawke. I, personally, like M!Hawke better, but YMMV.

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

SinnSly wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

SinnSly wrote...

I only hate Garrett Hawke, him and Merrill just makes him seem like a weird pervy creeper...

How exactly is Hawke "a weird pervy creeper"? He seems nothing like that to me.

The way Garrett looks, he just looks way older than her, make her look like a little child to an old man >.<
To me he is just a creeper with Merrill... I'm a MarianXMerrill fangirl~

Well, you do realize that you can change the way Hawke looks, right? You don't have to stick to the default appearance; I never do.

Same. I made my Hawke look about 21 (this was before I realized he was actually 25 <_<) but yeah Hawke can look pretty young if you choose to make him such. 

[DrFumb1ezX]

SinnSly wrote...

Still seems like a creeper in a way...
I know you can but Marian's voice is soo perfect for default 1 & 2, I always go for default 2 myself, the scar makes her seem a bit more sexy

It's not a scar, it's Nutella. Get it right.

[bleetman]

jlb524 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

I saw Hawke as being too influential on her personal mission.  I've done the friendship and rivalry paths (never romanced), but either way, at the end, she defers to Hawke's judgement.

I really would not have minded if she had been angry at Hawke on the rivalry path, too.  It felt abusive and awful to me.

She doesn't defer to Hawke more than any of the others.  I would say she defers less and she does what she wants to do regardless of what Hawke says, changing her mind only at the end (when things go really poorly).

She was definitely angry with Hawke on the rivalry path.

Yes, she is. She also repeatedly tells Hawke where to shove it on the rival path. Heck, the rivalry/friendship can effectively be decided based on one decision on Hawke's part. As far as her personal quests go, she only really accepts anything Hawke says if they're agreeing with each other. I felt Hawke had significantly more influence on, say, Isabela than s/he ever does on Merrill.

[SinnSly]

soccerchick wrote...

SinnSly wrote...

Still seems like a creeper in a way...
I know you can but Marian's voice is soo perfect for default 1 & 2, I always go for default 2 myself, the scar makes her seem a bit more sexy

It's not a scar, it's Nutella. Get it right.

Hhmm it does look like a scar if you look at it differently, but I am thinking of writing a Merril and MArian story so I'm putting it as a scar, plus in Dragon Age Legends it is classed as a scar