343 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

But still, what the public believes is good or bad can change.   Thus, 'blood magic is evil' isn't a set-in-stone forever true type of thing.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
You're either trolling, or have a very sick worldview.

I assume he's trolling.

[Abispa]

I am curious as to why the Dalish ban blood magic. They have a longer history of magic that predates the Chantry so they must have some reason. Perhaps the Chantry decision to ban blood magic was even the result of the Dalish experience with it, particularly during Arlathan's war with Tevinter. I don't think the Dalish ban is based on Chantry dogma since they practice the banned magic of shapeshifting and they do not surrender their own mages even when in Chantry occupied lands.

Feynriel even said that the Dalish had abandoned the "dreamer" school of magic as being too dangerous.

The Rivani mages actually accept abominations as magical tradition, though I am not totally sure if that requires the use of blood magic, or whether they allow their mages to use blood magic as a means to achieve it.

The Qunari Serabas had blood magic items on him, but I'm not sure if that was "official" blood magic or just some curious power of his necklace. If the Qunari allow the use of blood magic, it is pretty obvious that the use is brutally restricted.

The Dwarves apparently used blood magic to create their golems, though the skill has been lost. However, it looks as though they would jump at the chance to use it again if they could.

The Tevinters obviously don't give a damn, and from what I've seen of them I think it is in the best interest of the rest of Thedas that they keep the Imperium and the Qunari at war with each other for as long as possible, like the Allies allowed Germany and the USSR to chew each other up on the Eastern Front.

It is worth noting that in the societies that allow magic to be practiced "freely," like Tevinter, the Dalish, the Rivani, and the Chasind, mages have apparently assumed the role of leaders. Whether or not there are benevolent mage leaders, I am curious to see the highest level of authority a "normal" person can achieve in those societies. I don't think distrust and hatred of mages was created by the Chantry, nor that it appeared in Thedas without reason.

Modifié par Abispa, 07 décembre 2011 - 01:39 .

[jlb524]

Do the Dalish as a whole ban blood magic or is it clan-dependent?

[Darkrider296]

happy_daiz wrote...

Yeah, I'm not a Merrill fan. I tried. Ohhhh, how I tried.  

Lots of people love her to pieces, and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about, so I gave her a chance. Lots of chances. I even romanced her in one playthrough, but wasn't impressed. It was obvious to me that the devs love her, when you consider how long the awkward nekkie scene lasted (and that she got an entirely new outfit!). But alas, when all is said and done, she just really didn't do anything for me. I thought she said some cute things, but after a while, I just gave up. She spends most of each playthrough on the bench. 

Aveline and Isabela are my femHawkes' BFFs. 

Her romance left me pretty cold as well. Didn't feel as much love between the two unlike with Ander's romance

[Abispa]

@ jlb524 -- I don't know. I was going to point out that the Dalish Warden has the option to express disbelief that anyone would want to use blood magic in DA:O, but s/he was a member of the same clan. We never saw Zathrians' clan use it (I think), but they did sell lyrium potions, which seems odd if they did practice it since the lyrium trade on the surface is controlled by the Chantry.

I also wonder if the Chantry classifies ALL forbidden magic as "blood magic" in the same way the Catholic Church used to label all non-Christian religions as Satan-worship. If so, that could mean that the Dalish and the Chantry may have two different definitions of what blood magic is and that would confuse the issue even more.

I sometimes wonder if the writers are even making up some of it as we are going along.

Modifié par Abispa, 07 décembre 2011 - 03:03 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Hmmm....

It is clear that there's a much stronger connection being hammered on between blood magic and demons in DA2, than there ever was in DA:O.

[OMTING52601]

Merrill is extremely naive, which tries my patience. While she may have the best of intentions, the idea that she just keeps ignoring what everyone, including dipshat Anders, keeps iterating about fracking around with demons, and then has the absolutely ridiculous reaction she has when Marethari sacrifices herself.... I want to smack the frack out of her over and over again, and the fact that I can't do anything to stop the oncoming train.... If I could NOT recruit Merrill, I so would. She's sweet, yeah, and cute(I guess if stick figures with heads are cute) but she's just an awful character, IMO. The best part about Merrill is that she has some of the best companion dialogue, again IMO.

To Killjoy, you make a good point. In DA:O I don't remember reading, or even inferring, that all blood mages had to have made pacts with demons. That seems to be 1+1=2 in DA2. Maybe I missed something.

[Abispa]

Dude, Merrill is the Lizard Queen.

[jlb524]

Dude...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
It is clear that there's a much stronger connection being hammered on between blood magic and demons in DA2, than there ever was in DA:O.

Was there?

I think it was about the same.

Warden gets blood magic from demon.

Merrill gets blood magic from demon.

[shephawke]

i find merrill very funny i dont know y i just do

[GSSAGE7]

The big reason that blood magic is considered evil is the whole "mind control" thing that you can't do otherwise. I imagine that even Dalish would think that it isn't cool to mentally dominate each other, since they go out of their way to avoid humans. Hell, after Blood of the First, the only spell she has on the "blood mage" half of that path does exactly that. There's also the fact that most a lot of blood mages tend to use blood of others, even the unwilling. Given, Merrill finds the idea of using blood of the unwilling abhorrent, if you bring her on "A Bitter Pill" so that part doesn't effect her in particular. Still, I'd say fear of blood mage is justified when you remember that little exclusive ability, an ability that doesn't require knowledge of demonology.

[TEWR]

You know who Merrill reminds me of? Yuna and a little bit of Rikku.

You know what blood magic and the taboo against it reminds me of? Machina.

You know what the Chantry reminds me of? The Church of Yevon.

First one to accurately state why these things remind me of story elements of FFX receives a lifetime supply of internet cookies, as I'm too tired to type it out right now.

[GSSAGE7]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You know who Merrill reminds me of? Yuna and a little bit of Rikku.

You know what blood magic and the taboo against it reminds me of? Machina.

You know what the Chantry reminds me of? The Church of Yevon.

First one to accurately state why these things remind me of story elements of FFX receives a lifetime supply of internet cookies, as I'm too tired to type it out right now.

For starters, thanks for ruining Dragon Age for me, by comparing it to Final Fantasy X. Also, the "Chantry = Evil" has been said so often, I suspect people who skim over the forums without playing the game would think that the Chantry the Dragon Age version of Unitology.

[Ponendus]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You know who Merrill reminds me of? Yuna and a little bit of Rikku.

You know what blood magic and the taboo against it reminds me of? Machina.

You know what the Chantry reminds me of? The Church of Yevon.

First one to accurately state why these things remind me of story elements of FFX receives a lifetime supply of internet cookies, as I'm too tired to type it out right now.

Oh my. I never noticed these parallels. You are so right.

I am totally with you an Final Fantasy X love. Fantastic game, and I do see a little bit of it in every game I play because of that.

*highfive*

[TEWR]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

For starters, thanks for ruining Dragon Age for me, by comparing it to Final Fantasy X.

If that was enough to ruin it for you, I'm shocked. 

Also you're welcome.

 

Also, the "Chantry = Evil" has been said so often, I suspect people who skim over the forums without playing the game would think that the Chantry the Dragon Age version of Unitology.

First, you'll find that I don't "skim" over the forums and you'll find out that I do play the game.

Second, never said the Chantry was evil, nor is the Church of Yevon evil itself. The Church of Yevon was founded on very noble ideals -- albeit with an odd history to it -- and were warped in the later years. So too was the Chantry.

Noble ideals led to corruption and twisting of beliefs to suit the whims of those in power.

Mankind believed that the use of machina is what brough Sin to Spira. In a way, they were right. Over the years though, I think the blame got cast onto Zanarkand instead of pre-Yevon Bevelle. 

Thedosians believe that the Tevinter Magisters and blood magic brought the first Darkspawn to the world. In a way, they were right. It brought the first Awakened Darkspawn.

As such, the Church of Yevon forbade almost all machina -- and all war machina definitely -- from being used. However, they broke their own teachings by allowing the Warrior Monks to use war machina -- and the Chantry of Andraste parallels this because they forbade blood magic yet use it to track down mages (phylacteries) -- without the public's knowledge.

Ponendus wrote...

Oh my. I never noticed these parallels. You are so right.

I am totally with you an Final Fantasy X love. Fantastic game, and I do see a little bit of it in every game I play because of that.

*highfive*

*highfives Ponendus*

It and FFXII are probably my favorite FF games.

The music in X is amazing, along with the characters and the story. It's almost perfect.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 décembre 2011 - 10:57 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

jlb524 wrote...

Dude...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
It is clear that there's a much stronger connection being hammered on between blood magic and demons in DA2, than there ever was in DA:O.

Was there?

I think it was about the same.

Warden gets blood magic from demon.

Merrill gets blood magic from demon.

DA:O goes a little schitzy on it... it's an unlockable, not something that actually has to be learned every time.  But it's very likety that Jowan learned it from a source other than a demon, he makes it clear he wants nothing to do with demons. 

[SinnSly]

FaeQueenCory wrote...

She is dumber than dumb.

Not that that's a bad thing. Many of my friends' are dumber than dumb. (One is even EXACTLY like Merrill!)
But when you turn to Blood Magic and say "what? It's just magic, it's not like anything bad will happen..."
Then you are dumber than dumb. For in TheDAS, NOTHING good comes from using blood magic!

Deny that all you want... but just look at the history, and every time blood magic has been used, bad stuff has gone down right after. (Namely that whole blight thing is the direct result of super blood magic) If you just don't do it... then there will be no problem.

But she is adorable too. (Ignore the fact that I am like a kitty and find dumb people adorable...)

Magic is magic, I always choose to be a blood mage, it's magic none the less, I mean condone thsoe who use magic badly not just cause it's a type of magic right?

[jlb524]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
DA:O goes a little schitzy on it... it's an unlockable, not something that actually has to be learned every time.  But it's very likety that Jowan learned it from a source other than a demon, he makes it clear he wants nothing to do with demons. 

Ah, I see what you mean.  But where does Blood Mage Hawke learn it from?

SinnSly wrote...

Magic is magic, I always choose to be a
blood mage, it's magic none the less, I mean condone thsoe who use magic
badly not just cause it's a type of magic right?

The Chantry says it's bad so it's bad, m'kay.

Modifié par jlb524, 07 décembre 2011 - 04:15 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

jlb524 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
DA:O goes a little schitzy on it... it's an unlockable, not something that actually has to be learned every time.  But it's very likety that Jowan learned it from a source other than a demon, he makes it clear he wants nothing to do with demons. 

Ah, I see what you mean.  But where does Blood Mage Hawke learn it from?

SinnSly wrote...

Magic is magic, I always choose to be a
blood mage, it's magic none the less, I mean condone thsoe who use magic
badly not just cause it's a type of magic right?

The Chantry says it's bad so it's bad, m'kay.

Not pure evil, but it should be treated as such out of political convenience. Not to mention the sheer nightmare of trying to regulate it.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Evil defined by political convenience?

LoL.

[Killjoy Cutter]

jlb524 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
DA:O goes a little schitzy on it... it's an unlockable, not something that actually has to be learned every time.  But it's very likety that Jowan learned it from a source other than a demon, he makes it clear he wants nothing to do with demons. 

Ah, I see what you mean.  But where does Blood Mage Hawke learn it from?

The specialization point fairy.

[jlb524]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
DA:O goes a little schitzy on it... it's an unlockable, not something that actually has to be learned every time.  But it's very likety that Jowan learned it from a source other than a demon, he makes it clear he wants nothing to do with demons. 

Ah, I see what you mean.  But where does Blood Mage Hawke learn it from?

The specialization point fairy.

Hawke (to Malcolm):  I learned it by watching you!

[CrimsonZephyr]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Evil defined by political convenience?

LoL.

What would you suggest they do? Just allow it?

[syllogi]

The reason why blood magic is feared and hated is because (a) it attracts demons and many of those who practice blood magic end up possessed/an abomination, ( it is primarily used to physically harm and control others, while other types of magic do not necessarily do that, and © everyone who is not a player character or party member who has used blood magic in either game has turned out E-VILE.

It probably would be more impactful if the player had to deal with possible possession/demons turning on them when they choose the Blood Mage specialization, but eh, I understand why they left that out of the game mechanics.

Modifié par syllogi, 07 décembre 2011 - 05:24 .