343 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

There's no such thing as gameplay vs story segregation, just sloppy design.  If it's in the game, it's the reality of the game.

And in DA:O and DA2, using blood magic is evidently not as dangerous as NPCs tell us.   

Read up and be enlightened: http://tvtropes.org/...torySegregation

I've read that page.  See above.

[jlb524]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
Which could have been done using lyrium. Yes I know she didn't have any on her, but alternatives existed.

Why use a crap ton of lyrium when a little bit of blood will do the same thing?

Why use a connection to the Fade and risk demonic possession everytime you do magic when you can instead use blood to fuel your spells and be free of the link to the Fade?

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
Not to mention there's not much practical value in the mirror itself. "For Science" isn't a valid excuse, because that argument never goes well in Dragon Age.

First, we don't know exactly what the mirror can or cannot do.

Second, people study the past in Dragon Age in order to learn from it...I'm not sure why this is any different.  See:  Brother Genitivi.

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
And the Grey Wardens chose to keep something like Corypheus locked up instead of killing it? Great job, that one.

I'm not arguing the wisdom behind locking up Corypheus.  They needed a powerful prison for something...blood magic was very useful.

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
Plus, any leader should be deeply suspicious of Grey Wardens. Any organization that allows use of blood magic will one day abuse it. Mind control is too great a power.

The Grey Wardens need blood magic to exist.

Modifié par jlb524, 08 décembre 2011 - 02:14 .

[TEWR]

thats1evildude wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

And the Grey Wardens chose to keep something like Corypheus locked up instead of killing it? Great job, that one.

To be fair, it's possible that they locked him up because they realized at some point that he couldn't die.

Especially since they're unable to kill him themselves due to the tainted mind control he exhibits over Wardens. Near-immortal and unable to be killed by Wardens. Makes sense that they trapped him.

[CrimsonZephyr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

And the Grey Wardens chose to keep something like Corypheus locked up instead of killing it? Great job, that one.

To be fair, it's possible that they locked him up because they realized at some point that he couldn't die.

Especially since they're unable to kill him themselves due to the tainted mind control he exhibits over Wardens. Near-immortal and unable to be killed by Wardens. Makes sense that they trapped him.

Kill him, then kill each other. Problem solved.

[CrimsonZephyr]

jlb524 wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
Which could have been done using lyrium. Yes I know she didn't have any on her, but alternatives existed.

Why use a crap ton of lyrium when a little bit of blood will do the same thing?

Because breaking the law in the process of scientific experimentation is unethical?

[thats1evildude]

jlb524 wrote...

Why use a crap ton of lyrium when a little bit of blood will do the same thing?

Exactly! And hey, why use your own blood when you could just borrow a little life energy from someone else? If they refuse, you can just mind control them into submission OH WAIT.

You see how it's a slippery slope? Blood magic practically begs to be abused. Some mages might resist that temptation, but most will not. Some don't want to.

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Kill him, then kill each other. Problem solved.

And if he then possessed a darkspawn host?

As you can tell, I'm not crazy about blood magic, but in the case of Corypheus it might have been justified.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 décembre 2011 - 02:42 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

thats1evildude wrote...

And if he then possessed a darkspawn host?

As you can tell, I'm not crazy about blood magic, but in the case of Corypheus it might have been justified.

Hire non-tainted badasses to kill him. Confront him in an empty room. Do not have any wardens accompany them.

[thats1evildude]

Does proximity to Corypheus matter? Again, we're dealing with a lot of unknowns here.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 décembre 2011 - 02:50 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

thats1evildude wrote...

Does proximity to Corypheus matter? Again, we're dealing with a lot of unknowns here.

He gives Larius/Janeka a nice long stare. I'm guessing eye contact matters.

[Abispa]

I'm assuming that, as was the case in DA:O that the "taint" isn't that strong in "new" Wardens, thus Carver and Bethany can ignore the mind-control. We never got a chance to find out if the Magister can jump into one of their bodies when he's killed though. It looks like proximity didn't matter since the oldest Warden present, but who didn't fight the battle, APPEARS to be possessed (has that ever been established, or just implied?).

[TEWR]

Abispa wrote...

I'm assuming that, as was the case in DA:O that the "taint" isn't that strong in "new" Wardens, thus Carver and Bethany can ignore the mind-control.

This would make sense if Anders didn't act all bat**** crazy in Act 1 when he's only been a Warden for a year or two and Carver/Bethany have been Wardens for nigh on 3-6 years.  

[CrimsonZephyr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Abispa wrote...

I'm assuming that, as was the case in DA:O that the "taint" isn't that strong in "new" Wardens, thus Carver and Bethany can ignore the mind-control.

This would make sense if Anders didn't act all bat**** crazy in Act 1 when he's only been a Warden for a year or two and Carver/Bethany have been Wardens for nigh on 3-6 years.  

Vengeance made it worse?

It's always Vengeance's fault. What a tool he is.

[TEWR]

thats1evildude wrote...



Exactly! And hey, why use your own blood when you could just borrow a little life energy from someone else? If they refuse, you can just mind control them into submission OH WAIT.

You see how it's a slippery slope? Blood magic practically begs to be abused. Some mages might resist that temptation, but most will not. Some don't want to.

To be fair, both blood magic and regular magic are prone to abuse just as much as any other weapon. What's also bad is that both can lead to mass murder.

Regular magic relies on a connection to the Fade.

Blood magic can use the blood of the unwilling innocents of an area.

However, I'd say that blood magic is the safer course. Why? Perhaps due to the fact that demons are single-minded entities that serve only themselves, whereas humanity isn't single-minded. Blood magic has no ties to the Fade, except for the fact that the arcane is eternal in the Fade so demons are the quickest way to learn about it.

Aside from that, blood magic's more basic stuff has no ties to the Fade. Demonology does, but that's more of an offshoot of blood magic if it even is that. For all we know regular magic can sunder the Veil just as much as blood magic, though evidence of this hasn't ever popped up in the games.

Demons hope that a blood mage will become arrogant with the power they wield and let their guard down. That's when they.... they strike!

Sorry, Oghren moment there.

Anyway, the only thing about blood magic that does have a tie to the Fade is mind control, because that's something the demons specialize in. See Night Terrors for proof of this. If one wants to learn blood magic's mind control abilities, they have to meet with a demon and come out the victor, as the Scrolls of Banastor make clear since all it talks about is how powerful the mind can be to control people.

Why do I have this feeling I forgot some things and/or worded this post very poorly?

[OMTING52601]

shleets *snicker*

I agree, Writer, I thought that blood magic itself was neither better or worse than lyrium-based magic, but that blood mages seemed to be possessed more often because they were too arrogant about their power/too greedy for more and took unnecessary risks more often. Plus, I think that their(the blood mages) lack of connection to the Fade while doing magic may give them a sense of false security re demons, if that makes sense.

[TEWR]

Plus, I think that their(the blood mages) lack of connection to the Fade while doing magic may give them a sense of false security re demons, if that makes sense.

Indeed I think the same thing. They seem to think that they don't have to worry about demons anymore.

Thankfully, Merrill doesn't fall into that category. She knows she can't let her guard down for even a minute. Most mages fail to realize this. Blood mages especially.

[jlb524]

thats1evildude wrote...
Exactly! And hey, why use your own blood when you could just borrow a little life energy from someone else? If they refuse, you can just mind control them into submission OH WAIT.

You see how it's a slippery slope? Blood magic practically begs to be abused. Some mages might resist that temptation, but most will not. Some don't want to.

Slippery slope arguments kind of suck though (i.e., I never take them seriously).

Modifié par jlb524, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:23 .

[thats1evildude]

I assume Bethany/Carver are protected by virtue of their bloodline.

jlb524 wrote...

Slippery slope arguments kind of suck though (i.e., I never take them seriously).

Then you fail to account for basic human nature.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 décembre 2011 - 05:42 .

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Thankfully, Merrill doesn't fall into that category. She knows she can't let her guard down for even a minute. Most mages fail to realize this. Blood mages especially.

It seems to me that most blood magic use in game (especially DA2) comes from mages who've never used it in a 'relaxed' setting and are using it for the first time when facing a group of Templars bent on killing them.  In the former case, they can practice it without fear of dying...in the latter case, their adrenaline is pumping.

I think one reason Merrill is good at it is because she practiced using it in a non-combat setting first and is very good at mentally focusing all that power.  Now that trained focus helps her control it when things get heated in battle.

I also agree that her general attitude towards magic (that it's all dangerous) helps too.

thats1evildude wrote...
Then you fail to account for basic human nature.

It's fallacious reasoning. 

No one can define 'human nature' objectively either...it can't be 'studied' without bias.

Modifié par jlb524, 08 décembre 2011 - 05:54 .

[thats1evildude]

jlb524 wrote...

No one can define 'human nature' objectively either...it can't be 'studied' without bias.

Aside from the fact that we have whole fields of science dedicated to studying human behaviour, I don't know what you're trying to say here.

[Abispa]

Blood in an of itself seems to attract demons and cause magical effects in the DA universe. Areas where there is a history of prolonged battles seem to have weak barriers in the veil. The demons in the Warden's Keep DLC get all excited to be in the presence of soldiers killing each other even though their war wounds weren't part of the blood magic ritual. Blood ragers seem to gain supernatural battle powers even though they aren't mages.

[jlb524]

thats1evildude wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

No one can define 'human nature' objectively either...it can't be 'studied' without bias.

Aside from the fact that we have whole fields of science dedicated to studying human behaviour, I don't know what you're trying to say here.

Human nature isn't the same as human behavior.

'Human nature' is a set of immutable properties that all humans have in common, no matter their culture, no matter the time period the live in, etc.

[Tezzajh]

perhaps because she voiced by a welsh person? that explains most of it as the welsh apparently sound stupid anyway

[DrFumb1ezX]

Tezzajh wrote...

perhaps because she voiced by a welsh person? that explains most of it as the welsh apparently sound stupid anyway

Based on just hearing one person who was PLAYING a naive character, or have you talked to other welsh people?
I think she sounds nervous/curious most of the time. Not stupid.

@current topic
I view blood magic as a tool, and like most tools, can help or hinder you, depending on how it is wielded. The difference though, is that magic is inherently unfair. When one man can bend another to his will simply by how he was born, there's an issue. As much as I hate the idea of one group completely controlling another's very lives, magic should be controlled. Here, the Templars have a point. To a degree.
However, they haven't exactly done a good job of it (to put it very lightly)...

[Tezzajh]

soccerchick wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...

perhaps because she voiced by a welsh person? that explains most of it as the welsh apparently sound stupid anyway

Based on just hearing one person who was PLAYING a naive character, or have you talked to other welsh people?
I think she sounds nervous/curious most of the time. Not stupid.

 
I am welsh and we are always called stupid by the english because of the way we sound

[DrFumb1ezX]

Tezzajh wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...

perhaps because she voiced by a welsh person? that explains most of it as the welsh apparently sound stupid anyway

Based on just hearing one person who was PLAYING a naive character, or have you talked to other welsh people?
I think she sounds nervous/curious most of the time. Not stupid.

 
I am welsh and we are always called stupid by the english because of the way we sound

Maybe it's because I'm american, but the welsh really don't sound all that stupid. More curious than stupid.
In any case, I like your accents. None of you seem to chew on your words like some british guys I know. <_<

Modifié par soccerchick, 09 décembre 2011 - 02:47 .