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[LobselVith8]

At the conclusion of Dragon Age 2, The Warden is said to have “disappeared.” Whether this means The Warden simply hasn’t been found by Leliana and the Seekers of Truth, or whether Leliana is correct in assuming The Warden’s disappearance is tied to the Champion’s disappearance, remains to be seen. What it leads me to wonder is whether the position of Teyrn of Gwaren matters for The Warden, since he can disappear with Morrigan for an unspecified amount of time (since King Alistair mentions The Warden is back in Denerim at least seven years later) but is allegedly gone again three years after that. If The Warden is given the position of Teyrn of Gwaren, does it matter considering The Warden is consistently gone from ruling the teyrnir?

I’m wondering if there are likely to be any ramifications from The Warden becoming the new Teyrn of Gwaren, whether it’s addressed in future DLC for Dragon Age 2, or possibly in the future of the Dragon Age franchise.  The developers have said The Warden won’t be the protagonist again in future Dragon Age sequels, and there doesn’t seem to be any reference to Gwaren in the DLC for Origins or Dragon Age 2 so far. Wouldn’t surface dwarves be heading to Gwaren if they heard it was being governed by a dwarf? Wouldn’t elves do the same for an elven Warden ruling over Gwaren? Possibly even apostates if The Warden is a mage? I’m surprised that there aren’t any kind of references to Gwaren, or if we’re intended to simply imagine the future of Gwaren under the stewartship of The Warden so it’s left unsaid.

I’m curious if being Teyrn of Gwaren will matter for the future of Ferelden, and the Dragon Age franchise, especially since it puts The Warden in (or his progeny) in close proximity to being a potential contender for the throne of Ferelden if King Alistair and/or Queen Anora aren’t capable of having a child (which could mean Morrigan’s child with The Warden who did the ‘dark ritual,’) and if Teyrn Fergus Cousland doesn’t remarry and /or have another child to take the teyrnir of Highever.

[Sir JK]

The Teyrnir will most certainly matter for Fereldan's future, wouldn't be a teyrnir if it didn't. It is after all one of three "warlord"/"ducal" seats in the country. It has the support of a considerable amount of of the Bannorn (on paper. Wether they actually support it or not is politics).

But I don't think the Teyrn-warden will. Only 1/10 (or possibly 1/9) options will lead to the warden becoming teyrn. Of those there's many who will be absenthee landlords (due to travel/going after Morrigan/dying in Amaggarak). There's simply too many points of divergence to be able to make any deeper plot about it. So in all practicality, I think your last option is the most likely one. That we'll have to imagine what happens in Gwaren.
At best it'll come again as part of codex entries or possibly, if we're really lucky, as sidequest(s).

That said... if you want to speculate what could happen outside of the games, that's an entirely different matter. I think it's safe to say that Gwaren is the poorest of the three teyrnirs (doesn't mean weakest though). But I still think it's one of the three major factions in the upcoming interregnum. It's exact significance will vary depending on wether it joins a side, leads one or stays neutral.
Unfortunantely, the warden will probably step out of politics around the same time as Alistair does. And even then, being warden-commander (unless it's an orlesian) will mean that Weisshauppt will try to enforce political neutrality. Obviously they're half a world away, but they will not be happy if the warden tries to involve him/herself in Fereldan internal politics again (warden Alistair does mention that Weisshauppt was rather... furious about what happened in Ferelden).
The big question is if Alistair undergoes the calling (or dies) before the warden does and if the bannorn would wait for the warden to leave as well before they're all making their bids on the throne.

[LobselVith8]

Sir JK wrote...

The Teyrnir will most certainly matter for Fereldan's future, wouldn't be a teyrnir if it didn't. It is after all one of three "warlord"/"ducal" seats in the country. It has the support of a considerable amount of of the Bannorn (on paper. Wether they actually support it or not is politics).

I believe there are only two remaining - Highever and Gwaren. Amaranthine and Redcliffe are arlings, and Loghain only received Gwaren (by King Maric) because of his service during the Orlesian occupation. But you have a very good point - Highever is much more prominent and wealthy than Gwaren is, especially with Amaranthine being part of its arling (which seems to be why, technically, Teyrn Cousland can hand over a portion of Amaranthine to Nathaniel Howe if he remains a Grey Warden) and Amaranthine's potential to become a dominant power of trade in the Waking Sea.

Sir JK wrote...

But I don't think the Teyrn-warden will. Only 1/10 (or possibly 1/9) options will lead to the warden becoming teyrn. Of those there's many who will be absenthee landlords (due to travel/going after Morrigan/dying in Amaggarak). There's simply too many points of divergence to be able to make any deeper plot about it. So in all practicality, I think your last option is the most likely one. That we'll have to imagine what happens in Gwaren.
At best it'll come again as part of codex entries or possibly, if we're really lucky, as sidequest(s).

True, there are a lot of points of divergence - if the Hero of Ferelden dies, if the Dwarven Warden becomes Paragon and has no wish to rule over a surface teyrnir, if the City Elven Warden becomes the new Bann of the Denerim Alienage, el. ect. I suppose the only way that it would become more prominent is if the new ruler handed over the teyrnir of Gwaren to the Hero of Ferelden regardless of what specific royal boon was chosen, but I'd imagine there would be little point since the Hero of Ferelden is absent from Ferelden quite a bit.

Sir JK wrote...

That said... if you want to speculate what could happen outside of the games, that's an entirely different matter. I think it's safe to say that Gwaren is the poorest of the three teyrnirs (doesn't mean weakest though). But I still think it's one of the three major factions in the upcoming interregnum. It's exact significance will vary depending on wether it joins a side, leads one or stays neutral.

True. A possible war between the mages and the templars. A question over who will be the heir to the new ruler(s) of Ferelden. Potential trouble between Ferelden and Orlais. I'd also imagine if The Warden sided with Morrigan at the conclusion of Witch Hunt, her plans might be more epic in scope than simply Ferelden.

Sir JK wrote...

Unfortunantely, the warden will probably step out of politics around the same time as Alistair does. And even then, being warden-commander (unless it's an orlesian) will mean that Weisshauppt will try to enforce political neutrality. Obviously they're half a world away, but they will not be happy if the warden tries to involve him/herself in Fereldan internal politics again (warden Alistair does mention that Weisshauppt was rather... furious about what happened in Ferelden).

I believe Warden Alistair was referring to the Wardens - most likely, Stroud, and those who think like him. Mistress Woolsey mentions that the First Warden wants the new Warden-Commander to succeed as the new Arl, since it sets up a precedence (which fits Riordian's claims about the Weisshauppt Wardens "liking" the power that they wield in the Anderfels, since the people have a weak King and turn to the Wardens for leadership.

Sir JK wrote...

The big question is if Alistair undergoes the calling (or dies) before the warden does and if the bannorn would wait for the warden to leave as well before they're all making their bids on the throne.

The Bannorn would likely have issue with any Teyrn of Gwaren who wasn't human, which is what Queen Anora says to any Warden who isn't a Human Noble (if The Warden suggests himself as the new King to rule at her side).

[Sir JK]

Denerim is the third Teyrnir (yes, its an arldom too), Lobsel. Traditionally the king's teyrnir, but I assume any monarch could hand it over to a noble. I can't imagine why anyone would want to though. Fereldan is very much a warlord society still, even if the titles are turning increasingly hereditary. But power is still very much divided between Highever, Gwaren and Denerim. Of course.. this is the way the bannorn wants it.

And I agree, the hero of ferelden being absent is most certainly going to be in the way of him/her taking a prominent political role. Locally and regionally. Sure, enough influence to be Alistairs kingmaker (the person who makes and protects the throne. Usually the de facto ruler of weak monarchs) but you only need to be threatening for that.

As for Morrigan and Flemeth. I'd imagine their plans are less political and more mystical. I really don't think they care much where the humans take the world they live in. Knowing flemeth, she probably anticipated it anyways.

I don't think it's so much taking over the teyrnir/arldom that's the problem (after all, for non-mages land = power) as much as involving oneself in the civil war. Fine it happened, not much to do about it. But I don't think they'd stand idle if the hero of ferelden tried again once Alistair is gone. Sure, it's a bit hypocritical considering the Weishauppt/Hossburg feud in the Anderfels. But outside of the mountains, the wardens live on their political neutrality. If the other nations suspect the wardens involve themselves with power they're probably not going to be very welcome just about anywhere anymore.

As for the last point. You misunderstood me. The bannorn will wait Alistair/Anora out. The question is if they'll wait out the hero of ferelden too. After all... there's what... 1-2 years between the hero and Alistair. Not to mention that the hero might undergo the calling first.

EDIT: Oh. One thought that struck me is that I'd expect the Guerrins making a bid for the teyrnir of Gwaren. The brothers have strong positions in the bannorn and the ear of the king. I sort of expect that in 30 years time (20 at the end of DA2) we'll see... at least the beginning of a larger feud over Ferelden between the Guerrins and the Couslands. Assuming no new name.

Modifié par Sir JK, 08 novembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[LobselVith8]

Sir JK wrote...

EDIT: Oh. One thought that struck me is that I'd expect the Guerrins making a bid for the teyrnir of Gwaren. The brothers have strong positions in the bannorn and the ear of the king. I sort of expect that in 30 years time (20 at the end of DA2) we'll see... at least the beginning of a larger feud over Ferelden between the Guerrins and the Couslands. Assuming no new name. 

That's a possibility, given what's said about Redcliffe and the Arl of Redcliffe on the map of Witch Hunt (if The Warden didn't abandon Redcliffe village to the undead). I'd assume Connor isn't eligible, although perhaps his brother, Tegan, might have an heir with his possible wife Kaitlyn.

Speaking of which, I wonder if the Drydens will be able to have any claim, as descendants of King Calenhad. It seems (according to Mistress Woolsey) that The Warden revealed the truth behind what happened at Warden's Keep, and given Levi Dryden's aid to the Hero of Ferelden, I wonder if the stigma against the family would remain after the Fifth Blight.

[Sir JK]

Nah, the Drydens are out in the cold. Claims are like plants, you need to water them regularly for them to mean squat. They might be forgiven sure. But they'd have to be given a bannorn and work their way up to have even a remote claim at the throne or a teyrnir. Besides... given how nobility tends to intermarry and Calenhad was king 400 years ago (16-20 generations ago) it's not farfetched that half of the old banns (the families that survived Mehgren) have claims on being descendants of him.

In the future struggle I'd say that right now it looks like the Guerrins and the Couslands are the biggest players. Possibly the banns speaking up at Landsmeet too... they seemed like the big players. Especially Alftsanna of Waking Sea.

[KJandrew]

Denerim was the Teyrnir but was reduced to an Arldom as the King's domain is supposed to be all of Fereldan according to the codex.
The Drydens could get back their political power but only if Levi or someone else in the family became a big warlord or mercenary leader in the Free Marches, having enough military power to force the issue and even then the chances aren't the best

[Augustei]

Sir JK wrote...

The big question is if Alistair undergoes the calling (or dies) before
the warden does and if the bannorn would wait for the warden to leave as
well before they're all making their bids on the throne.

Unless Alistair gets cured of the Taint in the new comic like his mother did

[Gabey5]

Probably nothing. But it was a nice position> My Cousland has Highever, Gwaren, Amarathine, and Soldier's Peak.

[General User]

Fergus Cousland (the HN's brother) is the Teryn of Highever, Amaranthine was given to the Wardens (vice "the Warden") the Warden-Commander only administered that arling, and Soldiers Peak is a fortress, there's very little in the way of useful lands associated with it.