291 réponses à ce sujet

[Vegos]

As much as I dislike Activision, they are not the ones on trial here

[SarunasAndSoOn]

Gatt9 wrote...

It's really simple.

EA is forcing "Features" in so they can sell Online Passes,  and try to capitlize on pointless toys,  rather than focusing on the quality of the game.  Significant chunks of the budget were wasted on shoehoring in Multiplayer into a singe player narrative driven game,  kinect support to have a bullet point on the box,  and "Shooter-mode" for the people who can't manage even the very minimal RPG elements present.

This pulls the team's focus away from making the best game possible,  and forces them to focus on implmenting the Suit's "Must have list" that doesn't add anything to the actual point of the game.

Further,  in an effort to sell Online Passes,  multiplayer will be essentially forced upon all,  forcing players to lose track of their goals,  emotional investment,  and their attention to fill some silly meter just so they could sell Online Passes.

Then there's the issue of the Shooter-mode,  which precludes the ability for the game to have Choice & Consequence,  since now one of their targets doesn't make choices.

It doesn't help matters that not only was one of their team leads so clueless she couldn't tell the difference between a beginners D&D book and a real D&D book when trying to earn street cred in a presentation,  nor could should actually identify RPG dice,  but she also quit 2/3 of the way through,  creating even further vision problems since her questionable direction was now lost leaving the team in the hands of someone different.

ME3's not going to end well,  it'll be like DA2.  It's being forced in a completely different direction,  with way too much Suit interference mandating pointless "Features" just because someone who sits in an office thinks it'll get him a bigger bonus check.  No game in the 30 year history with this kind of development cycle has ever done anything but bomb.

ME3 won't be any different.  It's not possible to make a good game when you're forced to spend your time implementing features that don't contribute to making a good game,  and in fact will force you to change the design to support the useless features.

The firestorm here in March will be alot bigger than the one for DA2's release.

onelifecrisis wrote...

I don't think you're in a minority. Plenty of people are still psyched for ME3.

And the other people making this claim...Go look at Gamespot's news article about yesterday's spoiler image.  people are not optimistic about Bioware,  even on a forum that wildly cheered Fallout 3's conversion to FPS.  Things do not bode well for ME3,  which considering the last 2 only sold a couple million copies,  will be really bad.

you are example A of who im talking about. you do not know what EA is doing to bioware, unless you work for either of them. you dont know EA is forcing the multiplayer. also, the multiplayer is not forced upon you either, its an option, go look that up in the dictionary please.

[Vegos]

SarunasAndSoOn wrote...

you are example A of who im talking about. you do not know what EA is doing to bioware, unless you work for either of them. you dont know EA is forcing the multiplayer. also, the multiplayer is not forced upon you either, its an option, go look that up in the dictionary please.

Talk isn't about MP being forced onto players, it's about being forced into the ME franchise. And last time I checked, the ME franchise didn't have an option to refuse.

[SarunasAndSoOn]

slimgrin wrote...

Why make thread like this?

because im confused as to the reasoning and sources of the information of some of the crazy people on BSN. i thought that was pretty clear.

[SarunasAndSoOn]

Vegos wrote...

SarunasAndSoOn wrote...

you are example A of who im talking about. you do not know what EA is doing to bioware, unless you work for either of them. you dont know EA is forcing the multiplayer. also, the multiplayer is not forced upon you either, its an option, go look that up in the dictionary please.

Talk isn't about MP being forced onto players, it's about being forced into the ME franchise. And last time I checked, the ME franchise didn't have an option to refuse.

"multiplayer will be essentially forced upon all"  

[Igib]

To put it simple (and I believe that's also what Gatt9 tried to tell), the main concern is that instead of working on the singleplayer elements of the game, trey're wasting time and resources on superfluous features (kinect, co-op) which add notning to the singleplayer story experience. And they do that not beacause they think that those features are great (that's PR/marketing bullsh*t), but because those features are currently popular (yes, but in stupid scripted shooters, not rpgs) and they hope to attract more people (mainly kids who grew up on games like Halo or Gears of War and just want to shoot things).

And seeing how they turned DA:O into "more accessible" hack-n-slash DA2 with predefined outcomes, ME3's fate may easily be the same.

...

I understand that Bioware and their games have to evolve and adapt in order to survive and make profit. But the direction in which they are forced to go makes me feel sad. It's like watching a friend die.

[Gabey5]

EA owns bioware.

Bioware post EA we have seen then move away from what it is they do, great stories and a good characters.

Da2 was a rush job and feels hollow
ME2 was just one long recruitment mission

so one might infer that EA is pushing this

Modifié par Gabey5, 09 novembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[Schneidend]

Vegos wrote...

Talk isn't about MP being forced onto players, it's about being forced into the ME franchise. And last time I checked, the ME franchise didn't have an option to refuse.

And I say it's about time Bioware started including co-op in their games again. Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 had it, and it was beautiful.

Gabey5 wrote...

EA owns bioware. 

Bioware post EA we have seen then move away from what it is they do, great stories and a good characters.

Da2 was a rush job and feels hollow
ME2 was just one long recruitment mission

so one might infer that EA is pushing this

Emphasis mine. These are opinions, and in mine I happen to think DA2 was perfectly fine and found the character-driven plot to be an enjoyable shift. Same goes for ME2. Both games focused on the characters and what they go through, with the sweeping narrative taking a backseat. EA isn't pushing Bioware away from anything. Bioware is deciding to focus on characters while having an overarching story, which is simply a reverse of their older games, which focused on event-driven plots that had interesting characters to interact with.

Modifié par Schneidend, 09 novembre 2011 - 06:19 .

[Air36723]

I have always liked the bioware games i've played, KotR, Baldur's gate series, DA series, ME series. I guess im one of those loyal customers that bioware can always count on to purchase their titles. Bioware and Blizzard are my favorite game companies and while some would say rivals, i see competition and the drive to produce the best for the customers.

To bioware i say keep up the good work, I was a blizzard fan only until i played your games, now im torn whenever both companies come out with titles in the same month on which to purchase, as i like to finish a game completely before getting a new one.

[Vegos]

Schneidend wrote...


And I say it's about time Bioware started including co-op in their games again. Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 had it, and it was beautiful.

Well okay if YOU say so then who am I to argue?

[Gabey5]

Schneidend wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Talk isn't about MP being forced onto players, it's about being forced into the ME franchise. And last time I checked, the ME franchise didn't have an option to refuse.

And I say it's about time Bioware started including co-op in their games again. Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 had it, and it was beautiful.

Gabey5 wrote...

EA owns bioware. 

Bioware post EA we have seen then move away from what it is they do, great stories and a good characters.

Da2 was a rush job and feels hollow
ME2 was just one long recruitment mission

so one might infer that EA is pushing this

Emphasis mine. These are opinions, and in mine I happen to think DA2 was perfectly fine and found the character-driven plot to be an enjoyable shift. Same goes for ME2. Both games focused on the characters and what they go through, with the sweeping narrative taking a backseat. EA isn't pushing Bioware away from anything. Bioware is deciding to focus on characters while having an overarching story, which is simply a reverse of their older games, which focused on event-driven plots that had interesting characters to interact with.

If you can't see why da2 sucked, then that is your right.

Many of me2's characters had nothing to do with the plot and their was no reason to recruit the. An assasin, thief etc. We had no use for people of their skill set. Many where just along for the ride. the charcters where interesting but just came off as filler

[Shammybaby]

ME2 felt like a hallway rail shooter for 80% of the game. The backgrounds were uninteresting and did very little artistically to hide the 'smallness' of the worlds you were on. First I hear of a Quarian council with hundreds of people all representing parts of the fleet and when I arrive, it's 3 Quarians standing between two bushes. Your skill tree was cut in half. Did you make Anderson Counsellor because Udina is clearly a stupid c­ock? Well too bad ret conned. Left Ashley on Virmire? F­uck you, Retconned. Pissed Cerberus killed Kohaku and did Thorian experiments and ****ed around with military AI on the moon? Too bad you're wearing Cerberus colors all through Mass Effect 2. Want a Galactic RPG? Too bad.

Why should I believe ME3 will be an improvement?

Modifié par Shammybaby, 09 novembre 2011 - 06:54 .

[Harmless Citizen]

Did you make Anderson Counsellor because Udina is clearly a stupid c­ock? Well too bad ret conned. Left Ashley on Virmire? F­uck you, Retconned.

When were these retconned?

[Vegos]

Shammybaby wrote...
First I hear of a Quarian council with hundreds of people all representing parts of the fleet and when I arrive, it's 3 Quarians standing between two bushes.

Okay, hate to make the call on this, but that simply means you weren't paying much attention. You have heard of both the Conclave AND the Admiralty Board otherwise.

[robarcool]

SarunasAndSoOn wrote...

im not happy with everything BW is doing, but that is pretty much impossible. however the poeple that are unhappy seem to heavily express their unhappiness over and over again.

See, I am also hoping for some improvements in ME3, but I can't bash or praise ME3 yet based on ME2 experience. So, I am psyched for ME3 and will only make an opinion after I have played it. As for the downers, well haters will keep hating. You can't do much about it.

[Shammybaby]

Vegos wrote...

Shammybaby wrote...
First I hear of a Quarian council with hundreds of people all representing parts of the fleet and when I arrive, it's 3 Quarians standing between two bushes.

Okay, hate to make the call on this, but that simply means you weren't paying much attention. You have heard of both the Conclave AND the Admiralty Board otherwise.

And that'd of been nice. It'd of made you feel more important than bustling through a crowd of 15, 20 Quarians, to **** talk/debate with three Quarians- each one being a "Let's war it up", "Let's find peace", and "Let's protect my own interest" Admirals. Ya fly to... One ship, which was coincidentally owned by an admiral so no need to involve the conclave. And then you come back to a ship with half of its previous areas now cut off (not that there was much to begin with)

Maybe mass effect 3 will attempt to bring about more dynamic and large interactions such as that. Even in ME1 when getting Spectre status- the cameras focused on the many human, turian, salarian, and asari politicians all babbling about and instead turning to focus on you, the player. That was a nervous moment for a character.

I'm sick of the game feeling like it's disappearing into hallways and lacklustre NPC interaction

[Travie]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I think it is inmportant to remember that even the people who are currently, shall we say, on teh negative side are only there because they love he Mass Effect series and are worried that what we have revealed so far doesn't conform to their expectations of ME3.

This doesn't mean that they hate ME3 (I do grant there are a very small number of people only here to cause trouble, but we try to downplay them asap), it just means they want clarity and, to some degree, reassurance that we aren't screwing up a title they care about.

See?

THATS how fans should be spoken to and treated.

I just wish you were doing the fan outreach for the DA2 release... the fans were treated like dirty pesants by that team.

[GreenSoda]

Shammybaby wrote...

And that'd of been nice. It'd of made you feel more important than bustling through a crowd of 15, 20 Quarians, to **** talk/debate with three Quarians- each one being a "Let's war it up", "Let's find peace", and "Let's protect my own interest" Admirals. Ya fly to... One ship, which was coincidentally owned by an admiral so no need to involve the conclave. And then you come back to a ship with half of its previous areas now cut off (not that there was much to begin with)

Maybe mass effect 3 will attempt to bring about more dynamic and large interactions such as that. Even in ME1 when getting Spectre status- the cameras focused on the many human, turian, salarian, and asari politicians all babbling about and instead turning to focus on you, the player. That was a nervous moment for a character.

I'm sick of the game feeling like it's disappearing into hallways and lacklustre NPC interaction

I wouldn't hold my breath. BW was never known for spending much effort on NPC immersive behavior. They typically suffer from standing sign-post syndrom and their city hubs all are kind of...empty.

I seem to recall one of the devs stating that this is actually (kind of) on purpose (as in implementing it would cost too much zots better spent otherwise).

Modifié par GreenSoda, 09 novembre 2011 - 07:52 .

[Had-to-say]

This is the best thread post leak. Kudos to the OP.

[marstor05]

actually just flicked through the so-called spoilers on't interweb again and spotted something new (must have missed it earlier for some reason) and all I can say is WOW!!!

This game is gonna be amazing.

[Harmless Citizen]

Honestly, Shammy, Me has always been that way to some extent. I assume you were satisfied with ME1, a game that was equally as bad in that regard. There were more worlds to explore, certainly, but this "exploration" mostly consisted of driving across huge expanses of nothing to go to some mining facility somewhere to look for someone who was probably already dead or was soon to be dead because you killed them.

That, or going into an empty mine and being pwnt by HUSKRUSH.

EDIT: And in ME1, there were actually even fewer NPC interactions. 

Modifié par Random Nobody, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:27 .

[Massefeckt]

SarunasAndSoOn wrote...


you are example A of who im talking about. you do not know what EA is doing to bioware, unless you work for either of them. you dont know EA is forcing the multiplayer. also, the multiplayer is not forced upon you either, its an option, go look that up in the dictionary please.

You only need to know EA's history or any kind of business takeover to see whats going on. Bioware has changed the direction of it's games since the EA takeover to try and grab some of the COD crowd. This is an EA tactic not a Bioware one. When a large business who's biggest concern is making more and more money no matter the cost to quality takes over a smaller company with a reputation for artistry and creativity it's always obvious whats going to happen the artistry and creativity will suffer. It's not just EA and Bioware it happens in all walks of business. EA doesn't care about Biowares reputation if Bioware starts going down the tubes they can just bin it and buy someone else thats the way EA work.

That all said I'll still be buying ME3 and feel I will still enjoy it just not anywhere near as mush as ME1 or 2.

As for OP question I would think that those who are on a downer are those who were disappointed with DA2 and are worried that ME will follow the drop in standards. I'm one of those but one with their fingers crossed hoping to be wrong. Also I'm guessing some of us are old enough to remember DX Invisible War and also saw the Ravenshield games go from excellent tactical games to COD clones all the while being reassured by the developers that we would be happy with the end results.

Modifié par Massefeckt, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:31 .

[Jacen987]

Gatt9 wrote...

It's really simple.

EA is forcing "Features" in so they can sell Online Passes,  and try to capitlize on pointless toys,  rather than focusing on the quality of the game.  Significant chunks of the budget were wasted on shoehoring in Multiplayer into a singe player narrative driven game,  kinect support to have a bullet point on the box,  and "Shooter-mode" for the people who can't manage even the very minimal RPG elements present.

This pulls the team's focus away from making the best game possible,  and forces them to focus on implmenting the Suit's "Must have list" that doesn't add anything to the actual point of the game.

Further,  in an effort to sell Online Passes,  multiplayer will be essentially forced upon all,  forcing players to lose track of their goals,  emotional investment,  and their attention to fill some silly meter just so they could sell Online Passes.

Then there's the issue of the Shooter-mode,  which precludes the ability for the game to have Choice & Consequence,  since now one of their targets doesn't make choices.

It doesn't help matters that not only was one of their team leads so clueless she couldn't tell the difference between a beginners D&D book and a real D&D book when trying to earn street cred in a presentation,  nor could should actually identify RPG dice,  but she also quit 2/3 of the way through,  creating even further vision problems since her questionable direction was now lost leaving the team in the hands of someone different.

ME3's not going to end well,  it'll be like DA2.  It's being forced in a completely different direction,  with way too much Suit interference mandating pointless "Features" just because someone who sits in an office thinks it'll get him a bigger bonus check.  No game in the 30 year history with this kind of development cycle has ever done anything but bomb.

ME3 won't be any different.  It's not possible to make a good game when you're forced to spend your time implementing features that don't contribute to making a good game,  and in fact will force you to change the design to support the useless features.

The firestorm here in March will be alot bigger than the one for DA2's release.

onelifecrisis wrote...

I don't think you're in a minority. Plenty of people are still psyched for ME3.

And the other people making this claim...Go look at Gamespot's news article about yesterday's spoiler image.  people are not optimistic about Bioware,  even on a forum that wildly cheered Fallout 3's conversion to FPS.  Things do not bode well for ME3,  which considering the last 2 only sold a couple million copies,  will be really bad.

This a some kinda a crap,:sick:I'll tell you that much.

Youve mixed in ALL kinds of "facts" - random and otherwise ( more - preconceptions that are neither supported, nor universally accepted) to draw out a conclusion, that supports your doomsday prophecy.

Regardless of whether or not ME3 end up a GOOD game, nobody outside of Bioware could have comfirmed it in advance. Neither people, who read an old story draft, nor "experts" analyzing EA influnce over Bioware, can judge their design process accurately, or EAs influence on it.

I can easly see Bioware hiring a team to flesh out a multiplayer add-on,(..., what with the way the industie is these days...) since SP was reportedly fully playable a year ago.

Sure nobody asked for it, but if they had the extra time and budget, while polishing the SP, it's certainly extra value for the price and with a Univerce as rich as ME, how is stepping out of Sheppards shoes, as a little ditraction once you've beaten the game actually bad.

It ALL depends on the context. Nobody knows, who forced who, when, or even if. Its quite likely, Bioware had these MP plans long ago, the Action Mode thing --- REALLY?....,after ME2 who's surprized.. . ..., and the PLOT - A game's files contain all sorts of design material(SC2's conataned tons of unused assets from 2year-old builds) .  MEs are a messy combination of plot triggers and jornal entries. So people extracting them means nothing, without any context.

Well except the endings....

People really need to stop making conjecture. In the end, right or not, they were just shooting in the dark.

Modifié par Jacen987, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:33 .