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The "lets reboot ME series thread" (no spoilers)

Débuté par CptData , nov. 08 2011 11:13

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#26
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 07:50

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Cerberus are human beings who do things. They need to have a motive that the player can understand. Otherwise they might as well be unknowable robots.

Anyway, the rough concept I have for a re-done ME1 Cerberus is that they are the ones running the lab on Peak15 and on Feros. Exo-Geni and Binary-Helix are still there, but the labs themselves are filled with Cerberus staff an security.

Their goal is to work with Saren and use him to overthrow the Council races, but then backstab him. They plan to do this by building a genetic "kill code" into his krogan/rachni troops that will cause them to expire after a certain amount of time (around the time they estimate Saren will be at his peak). They also are working on a plan to steal control of the geth from him. (Overlord, but this is only hinted at and not seen until ME2)

They feel Eden Prime and Feros are acceptable sacrifices to make this happen as once Saren falls humanity will be poised to fill the power vacuum.

However around the time the Normandy is locked down Cerberus has gained access to Shepard's reports and discovered the nature of Sovereign, so they withdraw support from Saren when he goes to Ilos and vanish.

Modifié par Saphra Deden, 09 novembre 2011 - 07:54 .

#27
aiDvEoN
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 07:58

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If that was what we got of Cerberus instead of what was in ME1, then I know that i for one, would hate them a lot less

#28
CptData
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:03

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@Saphra

I like your theory and it could be integrated into my "reboot", Saphra. It comes with some similarities (Cerberus-Saren joint venture). I dunno if Cerberus is going after "overthrowing the Council", but they definitely want to make mankind the most powerful race in Citadel space. Therefore they even deal with the devil himself - in this case it's indoctrinated Saren.

Saren hates humans but he frequently uses agents to deal with them, either to get access to new technology supporting his agenda or for intel. And - at least in my idea - Saren betrayed the Shadowbroker he's using Cerberus Network as new source of intel.

The true goals of Cerbers are the same as ever. They just don't know yet how to do that, they just use every option to achieve their goals. As you can see, they're already constructing the Normandy SR2 (prototype tech you can get is named SR2 or SR3)

Modifié par CptData, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:04 .

#29
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:07

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aiDvEoN wrote...

If that was what we got of Cerberus instead of what was in ME1, then I know that i for one, would hate them a lot less


Well, my goal with that was just to develop them more, not necessarily make them any nicer. I mean they'd still have their original questlines intact and might also replace Dr. Ross on Noda Crux (so optional fight there). They'd also have a few people on Virmire I imagine. However the neat thing about it is that you'd get to talk to a bunch of Cerberus people on Noveria and Feros... though it might not be apparent to Shepard at the start who they are. (might only come later after he recognizes the uniforms on the various worlds that he realizes there is something more going on). Lizbeth Baynham would be a Cerberus scientist. 

Of-course there should be one or two references to the Illusive Man in the game so that when we hear we are going to meat him in ME2 we are actually really surprised and anxious to see who he is.

#30
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:09

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CptData wrote...

@Saphra

I like your theory and it could be integrated into my "reboot", Saphra. It comes with some similarities (Cerberus-Saren joint venture). I dunno if Cerberus is going after "overthrowing the Council", but they definitely want to make mankind the most powerful race in Citadel space. Therefore they even deal with the devil himself - in this case it's indoctrinated Saren.


The idea is that Cerberus knows Saren wants to overthrow the Council, so they help him to succeed. The plan being that once he does it they will stab him in the back and leave him helpless for the Alliance to swoop in and claim the Citadel unchallenged. Of-course things work out slightly differently but one way or the other Shepard winds up making this happen anway (and saving everyone, including Cerberus, from the Reapers).

I have a lot of fun reimagining this stuff. Cerberus having a bigger presence in ME1 as actual developed antagonists would make the allliance with them in ME2 a lot more interesting. Especially if even Renegades would be unsure of Cerberus because for all Shepard knows Cerberus is actually just a plan B for Sovereign and they are really under Reaper influence...

#31
Adugan
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:10

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Saren should be a LI in ME1.

#32
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:12

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Another thing, regarding Noveria. You might not all be aware, but depending on the order you complete your objectives on Noveria it is implied that the rachni were turned lose in the labs on purpose. The reason isn't given (to my knowlege), but in this theoretical reboot it could be because Saren didn't trust Cerberus and/or felt they were starting to out-live their usefulness. He'd suspect their possible treachery so he sends Benezia and her commandos to get the info from the queen and end Cerberus' experiments there.

#33
CptData
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:15

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Saphra Deden wrote...

CptData wrote...

@Saphra

I like your theory and it could be integrated into my "reboot", Saphra. It comes with some similarities (Cerberus-Saren joint venture). I dunno if Cerberus is going after "overthrowing the Council", but they definitely want to make mankind the most powerful race in Citadel space. Therefore they even deal with the devil himself - in this case it's indoctrinated Saren.


The idea is that Cerberus knows Saren wants to overthrow the Council, so they help him to succeed. The plan being that once he does it they will stab him in the back and leave him helpless for the Alliance to swoop in and claim the Citadel unchallenged. Of-course things work out slightly differently but one way or the other Shepard winds up making this happen anway (and saving everyone, including Cerberus, from the Reapers).

I have a lot of fun reimagining this stuff. Cerberus having a bigger presence in ME1 as actual developed antagonists would make the allliance with them in ME2 a lot more interesting. Especially if even Renegades would be unsure of Cerberus because for all Shepard knows Cerberus is actually just a plan B for Sovereign and they are really under Reaper influence...


I just like your idea about Cerberus - and as I said, it would fit perfectly into the "reboot draft / schematics" I showed in the first posting. That's all I can say.


Saphra Deden wrote...

Another thing, regarding Noveria. You might not all be aware, but depending on the order you complete your objectives on Noveria it is implied that the rachni were turned lose in the labs on purpose. The reason isn't given (to my knowlege), but in this theoretical reboot it could be because Saren didn't trust Cerberus and/or felt they were starting to out-live their usefulness. He'd suspect their possible treachery so he sends Benezia and her commandos to get the info from the queen and end Cerberus' experiments there.


There's never said what caused that outbreak, but most likely you're right.

Modifié par CptData, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:16 .

#34
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:19

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CptData wrote...

There's never said what caused that outbreak, but most likely you're right.


It depends on when you talk to Dr. Tarktosvksy (or whatever his name is). You have to ask him specific dialogue and it is not clear from the dialogue tree what the right choice is. However Shepard says something about "you let the rachni out on purpose" and the doctor replies "yes". It is muddled but its there.

Come to think of it, Saren attacking Feros would mean he had already turned against Cerberus. So perhaps they'd have no people on Virmire. It would only be hinted on Feros and Noveria and possibly in the other Cerberus quests that they had been Saren's allies before he suspected their treachery and turned against them.

#35
CptData
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:31

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Saphra Deden wrote...

CptData wrote...

There's never said what caused that outbreak, but most likely you're right.


It depends on when you talk to Dr. Tarktosvksy (or whatever his name is). You have to ask him specific dialogue and it is not clear from the dialogue tree what the right choice is. However Shepard says something about "you let the rachni out on purpose" and the doctor replies "yes". It is muddled but its there.

Come to think of it, Saren attacking Feros would mean he had already turned against Cerberus. So perhaps they'd have no people on Virmire. It would only be hinted on Feros and Noveria and possibly in the other Cerberus quests that they had been Saren's allies before he suspected their treachery and turned against them.


Ah I was referring to my "reboot" - the Rachni Queen will break out if you ignore the mission before Virmire (one of the Special Events I mentioned in the schematics). I use those events for story purposes - basically, they're "plot devices" of some sort.

So it's never said Saren released the Rachni if the Special Event kicks in. The Queen just got free and went rampage on Noveria.

#36
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 08:42

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I see. I haven't looked at your schematic. I just wanted to throw my idea out there for anyone to read and love/hate/abuse as they will.

#37
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 09:07

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Flowcharts…The bane of my Game Design class. Suprisingly I passed with an A+. I may just make a great game designer and try to work for BioWare in 3 yrs. That is a well laid out flowchart btw.

Modifié par jreezy, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:07 .

#38
CptData
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 09:30

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jreezy wrote...

Flowcharts…The bane of my Game Design class. Suprisingly I passed with an A+. I may just make a great game designer and try to work for BioWare in 3 yrs. That is a well laid out flowchart btw.


Never took that class, but I'm a electrical engineering technician ... so there are some similar tools when planning stuff. I also use similar charts when programming. And no, I'm no game designer but worked in a team doing a mod project for 2 years or so ...

I simply think it's better to use a chart instead wall of text. People get better what you want and you can change it as often as you want in case you add additional stuff. So there we go. Flow charts come in handy, I bet BW uses them too when brainstorming and such.
I'd like to work as story writer maybe even for BW, but I life in wrong country and even wrong continent, so ... not now. Besides that, my fiancee don't wanna move to Canada Image IPB

Thanks anyway ^^

Modifié par CptData, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:53 .

#39
Lotion Soronarr
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:12

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Cerberus supporting Saren? What for?

Story-wise, ME1 is solid.

If something needs to be changed, it's hte story in ME2 (and ME3 if the leak has even a smidgeon of truth in it)

#40
CptData
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:25

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cerberus supporting Saren? What for?

Story-wise, ME1 is solid.

If something needs to be changed, it's hte story in ME2 (and ME3 if the leak has even a smidgeon of truth in it)


Saphra Deden gave a good idea why Cerberus and Saren could work together.

#41
Arkitekt
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:30

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Idea for Mass Effect 2027 edition:

Have the computer iterate every character ingame's actions from your own interactions. Voice-overs are real-time calculated, and the characters are managed by different AIs.

You can choose to say everything at all. The AIs have their own directed intentions, but can be swayed slightly or pretty much, depending on your own skills / choices or on the character's character (ahem).

Sovereign will do his own thing while you are fighting Geth. No more "Hey we have just arrived exactly when Saren is doing his ****". No. If you are too slow, bad luck, Reapers arrive and you "jump" to Mass Effect 3 without any single war asset at all.

Yeah, tough to be you.

#42
Arkitekt
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:31

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Saphra Deden wrote...
Anyway, the rough concept I have for a re-done ME1 Cerberus is that they are the ones running the lab on Peak15 and on Feros. Exo-Geni and Binary-Helix are still there, but the labs themselves are filled with Cerberus staff an security.


This is stupid. Saren would never work along with Cerberus. Even indoctrinated.

#43
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:34

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Arkitekt wrote...

This is stupid.


You're stupid.

#44
CptData
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:36

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Hey, just keep stuff civilized. No one has to support other one's ideas, but don't offend others.
Thank you.

-- sorry for armchair-moderatoring, but hey, it's "my" thread *g* --

Any more ideas how to make Saren - Cerberus plot plausible?

#45
Lord_Valandil
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:37

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Why?

#46
Dean_the_Young
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:39

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Saphra Deden wrote...

I see. I haven't looked at your schematic. I just wanted to throw my idea out there for anyone to read and love/hate/abuse as they will.

Can we abuse it in a loving way? 

This isn't the first time you've raised this thought, but I guess it just didn't click with me the first time. The way you've outlined it now makes it more attractive.

I especially like the idea that Noveria is a Cerberus cell. But the idea of a Saren-betrayal also makes sense.

Perhaps the Noveria crew has been cut off and doesn't know the betrayal, while the Feros group (Sarah) is aware, but hiding it?

#47
roflchoppaz
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:40

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Sure, let's make asari less of a race of Mary-Sue space babes in the reboot.

#48
Nizzemancer
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:45

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[insert "we're gonna need a bigger boot" joke]

#49
Arkitekt
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:45

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

This is stupid.


You're stupid.


NO U.

Also, TIM would never work to place Saren inside the Citadel to bring about Cthuluh hell.

Against what the common stupidity amongst these boards have us believe, TIM is not indoctrinated. I've been saying this for months, and it's so obvious why that I really don't get how people still believe in this crap. Barring low IQ, forsure.

#50
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 novembre 2011 - 01:48

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Perhaps the Noveria crew has been cut off and doesn't know the betrayal, while the Feros group (Sarah) is aware, but hiding it?


The Noveria crew would indeed be in the dark due to hte nature of Peak 15. This is why they don't attack Shepard. They suspect Saren has turned on them, but they aren't quite sure. So depending on whether or not Shepard exposes Benezia's minions (when they murder the guard) Ventralis will either evacuate his people or obey Benezia's orders and try to kill Shepard.

On Feros they definitely know when the geth show up and start shooting that Saren has decided to get rid of them, but again they're trapped. So they (Jeong maybe) hope to use Shepard to clear the way and cover up the experiments there. Lizbeth however takes issue with this much as she does in the real game.

That's what i've got now anyway.
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