Hmm, interesting topic. What would I do?
ME1:
Not too many severe changes here. I'd push to have Eden Prime extended a bit so we might see a bit of the more populated sections. It's described as this major attack on innocent colonists, but I felt too little was actually seen and it didn't have nearly the same impact on the player. MIght also include a small tutorial or some such to better introduce Nihlus or perhaps have him hook up with your team for a portion of Eden Prime.
As for the rest, little things here and there. More squad interaction and input, the re-implementation of interrupt. Would also push for four-man squads to maximize banter. Then from there little changes to the actual areas. Reimplamentation of the small research colony on Therum where we have to choose between saving them and going straight for Liara. Abit more smoothing over of the later portion of Noveria. Have the early facility be a bit larger while increasing the desperation factor so that you're almost constantly under attack, trying to seal the path behind you to limit how many rachni are coming at once, so that when you reach the survivors it comes with some real relief as well as a better understanding of what they've been through. Feros I'd just remove the mother from the equation and just have the corporate survivors be led by Jeong and you just happen to come by a stranded survivor within the building. The rest of the main story is generally fine. I'd heavily tweak the side stories to have them more involved and less repetitive action set pieces, but detailing that is a bit much. Leave it to say, however, that the Cerberus side missions would at least a little more complete.
ME2:
Whoo boy.
Alright, the very beginning is mostly fine. Maybe change a bit about Shepard's death sequence. Like, explain why there's something left of him after atmospheric re-entry. Like Shepard's helmet and the freezing cold of the planet managed to sustain Shepard's brain long enough to stabalize the remains.
Then we get to the Lazarus project. Would change things up considerably here. Scrap the Wilson betrayal and have him be the one who wakes Shepard up, attempting to salvage years of work only to be gunned down as Shepard is opening his eyes. He takes Wilson's gun, and you dispatch a few armed guards you later find out is a squad sent by the Shadow Broker to retrieve Shepard's body. The rest largely remains the same. Get into contact with Miranda and Jacob, escape the facility, meet up with TIM, do the Freedom's Project mission. Little tweaks to dialogue as well as unveiling proof, not just assumptions, to Shepard that the Collectors are linked to the Reapers in some way so that Shepard remains onboard with the mission at least so far as discovering what is what.
Now here's where I change things up considerably. The focus of the game doesn't become gathering a huge squad and gaining their loyalty, but in recovering from death and preparing for a suicide mission. Preparing for the suicide mission involves gathering a good party, but more it involves gathering information, upgrades, etc. The team you get before Horizon becomes the main team of the game with Legion making an appearance at the end though not joining your crew. Zaeed and Kasumi would be good inclusions as well.
As well, you don't get the Normandy straight away. Instead you're limited to a short-range shuttle and spend a good portion of the early game in and around Omega with your gathered crew being based around there. This is to give a better sense of loss, that Shepard's death meant something and that he doesn't have every resource he used to at his instant disposal. I would also include some more introspective scenes, such as Shepard checking out his cybernetics, asking about what has been going on since his death, the reaction to his death and how the galaxy took it, etc. Things to build up Shepard as a character.
So after you gather your small crew and have completed some jobs around Omega to learn a bit of the comings and goings of the Collectors and the state of the Terminus systems in general (basically, doing some work for Aria) surprise, surprise, TIM sends Joker and a crew, gift-wrapped in the Normandy II. And suddenly the galaxy opens up and the hunt for the Collectors becomes more involved.
We're tasked with finding the Collectors, how to defeat them, and gathering hte equipment needed to do so. One of the first things on our list becomes connecting back with the Council and Alliance. Through them we would find out there's not much they can officially do because the Collectors are based in and attacking only the Terminus Systems so there's red tape in sending any serious force to deal with the threat. However, depending on Shepard's answers, he can get in deeper with Cerberus and gain more access to their intel and technology or with the Council and Alliance and be reinstated as a Spectre as well as gain access to their intel and technology. We are also pointed toward the VS who has been dispatched to the Terminus Systems to collect data about the attacks as well as help advise defenses in the region to prevent further attacks. Thus we come to Horizon not for the purpose of stopping an attack, but for gathering further intelligence. We also come across and save the VS and not just have them magically get better, walk onscreen, have an argument, and have them walk out again. The conversation we have with them is more productive and potentially less argumentative, revealing there may only be one Collector ship doing all the damage.
Missions open up even more now. We learn of a secret project studying the derelict Reaper where we find the IFF. We try to gain info from the Shadow Broker and either pay a huge sum of credits or help Liara take over to gain information which leads to the broken-down Collector ship. We are given tasks by various groups in order to upgrade sections of the Normandy such as weapons, shields, armor, etc. We are also tasked with the few loyalty missions not to "focus the crew on the mission" but in order to actually have them take part in the mission.
Finally at the end we'll learn that the Collector ship has gone dead after an encounter with the Turians. Shepard is first on the scene and docks the shuttle with the cruiser. Fearing a trap, Shepard links into terminals as he goes and plugs EDI in to temporarily take control over sections of the ship, preventing them from simply blowing the party out an airlock or trapping them. While the plan works and Shepard and crew manage to uncover design blueprints and where the Collectors are based, it also backfires as EDI's link to the Collectors goes two ways and the Normandy goes dead. Cue the Joker scene, only instead of Collectors storming the ship, they send in their swarm first, which is why Joker is used and not Chakwas - he is the farthest from the elevators and the breach and is able to bring up a shield in time. Then, using maintenance shafts and Mordin's anti-swarm device, he is able to purge the Normandy of the Collectors as the away team shuttle arrives back and escape the Collectors.
So now comes the big decision. All the intel you need has been gathered except one thing: the other side of the relay has never been mapped. So up comes the big choice. You can either rush in and save your crew, hoping everything you've gathered is enough to protect you from whatever defenses are on the other side, or you can take the time to map out the other side of the Omega 4. If you do the former you lose something big, like Joker, EDI or even the entire Normandy II, or even all three. If you do the latter then you lose half your crew.
So on comes the suicide mission. Much the same, maybe a bit more exacting on who you choose for what. Like you need to make sure the second team has both a good leader and a heavy hitter to keep casualties low, there might be a point where you set up a sharpshooter to cover everyone's movement, stuff like that. Then the end there is a third choice to attempt to give the base to the Alliance/Council instead of Cerberus.
Once the mission is over, we talk to TIM and all that we are given a surprise debriefing on Hackett about the state of things. He suspects we may have defeated the Reapers valuable shock troops and a foothold into the next step of their planning, but confirms there is much left to worry about. The debreifing changes on how we handled things as well as shows much of where Shepard's allegiance lies. Finally he reveals one last mission. An Alliance research team based deep in the Terminus systems to avoid detection has been studying Reaper technology and has gone silent. He turns to Shepard because he's done good work for him in the past and has experience with Reapers. Thus we are sent alone in a shuttle to handle Arrival, and are shown being taken into custody to answer for all that has happened and explain the danger of the Reapers, leading into ME3.
ME3:
Hard to say where to begin when I'm not even entirely sure where they're headed. I'd like to see a story about gathering allies, super weapons, etc. in a patwork force to drive back the Reapers, but I'd also like to see that be only part of the game as driving them off only calls attention to the gathered forces and eventually shreds through them. I'd only like Earth to be a small part of the game as the ultimate theme becomes desperation, sruvival and even paranoia as we must pick up the pieces to form some semblance of resistance and eventually even safety against the Reapers and their indoctrinated foot soldiers with Cerberus foremost among them.
In the end I'd probably write up a twist where it turns out TIM has been fooling the Reapers all along and has long since discovered a way to avoid indoctrination and has been using them to build up Cerberus technology as well as determine weaknesses in Reaper engineering. In the end Cerberus turns against the Reapers, destroying most and driving off the few remaining in a slaughter and bid for humanity to take over as the lone and dominant race with TIM as a sort of Reaperfied god-leader. Shepard would then have a choice to side with Cerberus to make humanity the dominant race, or oppose them with a direct attack upon TIM and whatever rock he's hiding under. In that finale we'd be faced with three choices; either we'd destroy the gathered Reaper technology to set out to discover and evolve along our own paths, use it to rebuild in an era of discovery, or take TIM's place as a sort of reaperfied god-leader.
The "lets reboot ME series thread" (no spoilers)
Débuté par
CptData
, nov. 08 2011 11:13
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#102
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 03:54
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Saphra Deden wrote...
This makes it all the better. Combine it with the unclear implication that Cerberus might not be so rogue after all, and you get some interesting hanging chades to be unclear about.
Regarding TIM's expanding control over Shepard and the unclear nature of Cerberus....
At the start TIM just offers leads, aid, and encouragement. Near the middle he is actively planning how to accomplish tasks with Shepard, then near the end he is manipulating Shepard with his own plans and appearing to call the shots. Finally at the very end he (politely) demands that Shepard turn over enemy assets (the base) to him. Shepard of-course can refuse (but is forced to destroy the base).
It should be made more clear in this universe that Cerberus are the only ones who can really access the base, so "saving it for the Alliance/Council" is ruled out.
There is a little bit of a tug-of-war between the Alliance, Council, and Cerberus. The Council is very gung-ho about exposing what Cerberus really is. They actually encourage Shepard to get closer to Cerberus in the hopes that he'll uncover evidence that the Council can use against them (and it is implied, the Alliance, at least in a Paragon universe). It is they who authorize the Shepard to accept EDI, but insist on limiters. They will also be the ones to suggest to Shepard to look for a Cerberus mole on the Normandy.
The Alliance, with Hackett as their voice, are somehow conveyed to be potentially hiding something. They appear to take the Council's side, but Hackett will remind Shepard of the importance of confidentiality, reminding him of the nuclear probe and Lord Darius incidents (if this mission was ever given) from the previous game. The Alliance balks at the suggestion that the Normandy has a mole and dismiss the investigation. Are they just arrogant? Covering their asses? Or actually conspiring?
The mission on Lorek involving the lost Cerberus operative and incriminating data still occurs and of-course each side demands the data and warns of consequences should Shepard choose one over the other (which he must).
Perhaps the existence of Overlord is hinted at in ME2 but we never actually visit it? (there's no accident there) It could be saved for ME3 and be one of the major subplots in that game.
Now, in a Renegade universe all of the above will have to play out differently. The human Council is more or less an extension of the Alliance (and thus possibly linked to Cerberus). I'm thinking that one way or another in a Renegade universe Shepard should be made to feel that they are all conspiring behind his back (perhaps together) and that nobody can be trusted. So instead of tug-of-war they all appear to be keeping Shepard in the loop whilst they manipulate him.
In both universes Shepard's contact with Anderson is limited, with the Alliance listing excuses as to why he can't be reached.
The Lorek mission however is much less contentious with the parties involved merely telling Shepard to upload the data to the Normandy for storage. "They're not fighting about it? Odd..."
Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Wrex unifying Tuchanka is a good thing to keep, so I'd say let Wrex leave as well.
I think I agree. Also, I changed my mind about the VS. As a result of ME1 they were promoted but also transferred from the Normandy (this makes the romance more believable I think). One of Shepard's problems in ME2 is of-course that the Alliance seems to be making it difficult to contact the VS just as they are Anderson. As such Miranda and Jacob are of-course recruited at the end of the "prologue" mission at the start of the game.
Dena_the_Young wrote...
Is Liara going to go for revenge on the Shadow Broker in some alternate version? Or is she trying to use her archeology to seal the deal on the Reapers?
No, there is no need for a revenge plot against the Shadow Broker because... I'm thinking he's not even in this universe. (I find having a Shadow Broker and an Illusive Man to be a little redundant) What do you think?
Liara is instead leading archeological digs in search of more information about the Reapers and their past victims. Maybe she is the one who locates the Reaper derelict? I'm thinking that after ME1 Cerberus started investigating Klendagon and they actually hired Liara through a front company to help them. At the time she didn't realize who she was actually working for.
When TIM reveals the existence of the derelict Reaper to Shepard he sets up a meeting for him with Liara first. From her we get a chilling tale: she as hired by a private company for an archeological expedition into pre-Prothean societies. However when she located the origin and target of the Klendagon impactor she also realized she was working with Cerberus. They swiftly detained her and until recently she's been in a secret Cerberus prison. She's in good health (wasn't tortured), but this is the first contact with the outside world she's had since that time. (or maybe they have her continue working for them... only with a figurative collar around her neck?) I think this helps establish Cerberus as not just stealthy, but also menacing. She warns Shepard that Cerberus is surely manipulating him the same way they did her.
Liara then joins the squad?
Otherwise I am still kind of up in the air as to who should be Shepard's other squadmates. I want to avoid what ME2 did with having too many or squadmates who were recruited for unclear reasons. Each one should join Shepard's squad as a natural result of the plot.
I'm thinking Mordin is recruited for largely the same reason he is in the real ME2. However a further subplot with him is this: Cerberus already knows him and he them. When the STG worked on the genophage modification they were working with Binary-Helix, and through them came into contact with Cerberus. As a follow-up the STG did an investigation into Cerberus trying to track their use of the genophage data which they assumed Cerberus had stolen. They were correct and were eventually lead to Virmire where they became trapped by Saren. (this was Kirrahe's original objective) What do you think of that possible link?
To elaborate on his role: I'm thinking he is not so much a biologist as a forensics expert. It is he who cracks open the geth's relationship with the Collectors. You know, he's kind of a detective/scientist.
I'm thinking that another squadmate is a quarian, someone who is an A.I. expert and will be needed to hack necessary intelligence from the geth. This is so that Shepard and company can make their next big break on the geth. It's sort of a larger scale version of what Tali did in ME1. Once this is accomplished the geth's base of operations is revealed and they just need a way to get there. I'm thinking Daro'Xen could be this character, only she'd be an outcast instead of an admiral. Rael's story from ME2 is her backstory. IE: she ran a lab ship experimenting on geth but she raised them to awareness to further her research. There was an accident and people were killed and she was exiled.
(she also actually be a Cerberus informant or otherwise an ally or just somebody they are interested in recruiting for future use in Project Overlord)
After Mordin and Xen have been recruited and their tasks for the team completed the derelict Reaper is revealed by the Illusive Man and Liara made available for recruitment.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
More to the point, might we jetisson the whole 'we don't believe you' plot? The war can still be justified as a tough run even if ME2 is all 'we are mobilizing for the Reapers, if justying it against the Geth.'
Oh absolutely. Shepard never disappeared for two years in this universe. The Council doesn't go back on their word (not even Udina). They believe Shepard about Sovereign and in fact they are the ones who point out that if Saren was indoctrinated then Cerberus might be too (if the Council is the original one anyway). In a Renegade-verse the issue of possible Cerberus indoctrination is rasied by someone else with different implications: the (human) Council, Alliance, and Cerberus all seem to be hiding something...
Note: the fears of Cerberus being indoctrinated are probably not true I'm thinking. It iss just there because it makes sense and adds an extra layer of uncertainty to the entire situation, keeping Shepard from forming a concrete attachment to any of the factions. The point is, Shepard is a Spectre, not a Cerberus operative, not a marine anymore (not really). Spectres are agents of the Council but also independent to a large degree by their nature.
So be it in the Paragon universe where Shepard feels the factions are all tugging at him or in the Renegade universe where he feels like the odd man out he'll remain relatively independent.
I think the war with the Reapers will be tough just due to the Reapers power and numbers, so no worries there.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Establishing the heretics as a continued presence could make a good focus. Continuing the war with the Geth... but now the Geth have changed tactics, and are responsible for abducting Human colonies. The Alliance and Council are pre-occupied with the main war, and blame it on slavers.
That is my idea too but who said anything about heretics? Honestly I'd rather there be no "Legion", no geth "good guys". In many ways I think it undermines the quarian/geth dilemma. If there were to be "heretics" they should be the programs inside Legion. However I'm still not sure I'd want to even go with that. I think the geth are better when we can't talk to them. It is a passive way of establishing their alien-ness.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
(Cerberus was) Tipped off by Joker?
Yes. On his way into Peak 15 Shepard restores power and communications. Presumably this is so he can contact any survivors in Riftstation and also keep in touch with the Normandy for safety reasons. However Joker uses this to send a stealthy message to the Cerberus personnel on Peak 15. Their orders are not to attack Shepard and instead to point him at Benezia, and escape along with as much research as they can carry. I'm thinking that the head Cerberus operative there sends Shepard after Benezia and while he is dealing with her all the Cerberus personnel escape, destroying evidence in the process. (note opening or activating the fail-safe on the rachni queen cage triggers the facility self-destruct so Shepard and co immediately have to flee out of Peak 15)
Note: after the prologue the Council and Alliance agree to suspend the outstanding warrants against Cerberus for the duration of the investigation.
Another idea I was toying with was that Captain Ventralis on Peak 15 is replaced instead by Jacob Taylor. (he might not introduce himself with his full name, but Shepard would recognize him in ME2) This also means that when you reach Riftstation you won't wind up fighting anyone there except Benezia's commandos/geth should you trigger their booby-trap before finding Benezia.
So either you go into the hotlabs and purge the rachni there and come back to find the Cerberus personnel gone, or you go straight to Benezia (via' that miniquest with the doctor) and on your way out (never have to go to the hot labs) see that the folks in Riftstation have vanished.
The strangeness of the situation is only immediately apparent back on the Normandy where it is pointed out by K/A that the survivors in Riftstation never turned up at Port Hanshan.
#103
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:03
Lotion Soronarr
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Fixers0 wrote...
didymos1120 wrote...
Once again, Fixers, you have a real problem with what terms actually mean. Here's a tip: "Mary Sue" does not equal "prominent role".
I'm Very well aware that they aren't the same, but let me ask: what's your definition of a Mary sue?
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
To put it simply, a Mary Sue is a perfect, idealised character that is inexplicably better than everyone else and hogs all the attention. Everything revoles around a Mary Sue. He/She hogs all the spotlight. Everyone else in the story exist jsut to talk or show how muhc better the Mary Sue is.
There you go Fix. As you can see, Cerberus doesn't fit at all.
Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 10 novembre 2011 - 07:06 .
#104
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:12
Lotion Soronarr
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CptData wrote...
Arkitekt - no one is talking about indoctrinated TIM here. TIM wants power. TIM wants to make mankind more powerful and superior to other Citadel races - and he has no real problem to deal with the devil to achieve that goal.
Saren on the other hand has his agenda. He knows what he does, and he hopes he can "make organics useful" to the Reapers - he does evil things for something he believes it's the "good cause". Tragic hero anyone?
Saren is willing to do whatever is needed to make his plan happen, that also includes deals with Cerberus for tech & intel. Saren isn't stupid and won't tell TIM or anyone of Cerberus why he's doing what he's doing so ... there is no need TIM or Cerberus is indoctrinated in ME1.
1. Why would TIM deal with Saren?
2. What has TIM to offer? Tech? Saren has acess to reaper tech. Nothing TIM has can compare. And TIM wouldn't help Sovereign.
#105
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:15
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
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I explained why TIM would help Saren. It is also worth remembering this is a reboot/re-imagining so some facts may have been changed.
Something to keep in mind is that chances are nobody who sees Saren's flagship lives to tell about it, Eden Prime being the exception. As such TIM wouldn't know about it at the time Cerberus started helping him.
Something to keep in mind is that chances are nobody who sees Saren's flagship lives to tell about it, Eden Prime being the exception. As such TIM wouldn't know about it at the time Cerberus started helping him.
#106
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:19
CptData
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Woa. Nice long postings - productive! Love it. Keep going that way :-)
Especially b09boy - I love your reinterpretation of ME2. Could work like that and it parallels a bit the stuff I have in my mind. My second flow chart will be a lot bigger than the first one since it comes with "two" instead of "one" story ...
One of the things bothering me in ME2 was Liara's sudden change from "Archeologist" to "Intel broker". I simply don't believe that change, it doesn't make much sense, not even if she did it to save Shepard. Besides the fact I don't like that it has to be Liara saving Shepard, it doesn't work for me.
Therefore I think there should be hints Liara IS already an intel broker in ME1 while she's also an archeologist. She secretly works for the Shadow Broker in ME1 but never reveals it to Shepard. It should be an issue in ME2 however, especially when going after the Cerberus arc.
Also right now I'm not sure what to do with the old crew in case Shepard survives the beginning of ME2. He has been in coma for two years because of his/her critical injuries. I think the crew got disbanded shortly after rescueing from the badly damaged Normandy while the Council and the Alliance tried to deny the existence of the Reapers. Once Shepard recovers his/her first question will be for old crew and (if s/he had any) the LI.
You can't get back all of them since they all have their own assignments and missions, but you'll face some of them in reboot!ME2. Especially the VS (or both) won't be available. If you're in the alliance arc you'll find out where they are and what they do and you'll have some joint missions with them. In case you're in the Cerberus arc there won't be such missions and you won't find out anything about Ash or Kaidan.
Something like that. I'm still working at it.
Especially b09boy - I love your reinterpretation of ME2. Could work like that and it parallels a bit the stuff I have in my mind. My second flow chart will be a lot bigger than the first one since it comes with "two" instead of "one" story ...
One of the things bothering me in ME2 was Liara's sudden change from "Archeologist" to "Intel broker". I simply don't believe that change, it doesn't make much sense, not even if she did it to save Shepard. Besides the fact I don't like that it has to be Liara saving Shepard, it doesn't work for me.
Therefore I think there should be hints Liara IS already an intel broker in ME1 while she's also an archeologist. She secretly works for the Shadow Broker in ME1 but never reveals it to Shepard. It should be an issue in ME2 however, especially when going after the Cerberus arc.
Also right now I'm not sure what to do with the old crew in case Shepard survives the beginning of ME2. He has been in coma for two years because of his/her critical injuries. I think the crew got disbanded shortly after rescueing from the badly damaged Normandy while the Council and the Alliance tried to deny the existence of the Reapers. Once Shepard recovers his/her first question will be for old crew and (if s/he had any) the LI.
You can't get back all of them since they all have their own assignments and missions, but you'll face some of them in reboot!ME2. Especially the VS (or both) won't be available. If you're in the alliance arc you'll find out where they are and what they do and you'll have some joint missions with them. In case you're in the Cerberus arc there won't be such missions and you won't find out anything about Ash or Kaidan.
Something like that. I'm still working at it.
#107
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:21
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
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CptData wrote...
Also right now I'm not sure what to do with the old crew in case Shepard survives the beginning of ME2.
You don't have to do anything. I'm just posting my ideas but mostly following my own vision. However feel free to take any concepts of mine that you like and do what you will with them.
#108
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:27
CptData
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Lotion Soronnar wrote...
1. Why would TIM deal with Saren?
2. What has TIM to offer? Tech? Saren has acess to reaper tech. Nothing TIM has can compare. And TIM wouldn't help Sovereign.
1. TIM wants access to tech, knowledge, everything that could help to advance mankind. A turian Spectre is a source TIM doesn't want to waste, especially if it's the BEST agend the Council has.
2. TIM deals with Saren, not with Sovereign. He doesn't know that Saren is (partly) indoctrinated and working for Sovereign. So for TIM Saren is just a Spectre who offers interesting stuff and wants stuff, especially intel. Also Saren fears (as pointed out on Virmire) the effects of indoctrination, maybe he hopes Cerberus can offer him tech to prevent indoctrination?
Besides that, Saphra had that great idea to make Noveria Peak 15 to a Cerberus cell. I like that idea. So Cerberus and Saren work together to understand the Rachni for example. Both want to control the Rachni and create an army of them - Cerberus needs them to advance mankind over the other races, Saren needs them for his own army.
So they both work together and it works. No indoctrination of TIM needed. They're partners. One has to offer something the other wants and vice versa.
#109
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:43
Lotion Soronarr
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Also, a better start for ME2 would be the following:
After Shep plummets to his death, we see a Cerberus shuttle swoop in after him. They pick up Shep and plug him on life support just minutes after his death. This makes Lazarus project FAR more believalbe.
Secondly, Someone else beign a mol/traitor...preferably for hte Shadow Broker. It just didn't make sense for Winters (was that his name?) to be it.
Then After Shep has talk with TIM and TIM explains the situation, Shep can just walk away. TIM won't stop him.
But as the player gets back to the Citadel, he finds that no one belives it's truly him and he's greeted with suspicion. The Council either can't or doesn't want to help him. Hence, it is established that the Cerberus is the only one that is actually willing to do something before Shep actually makes the decision to work with them. A Cerberus operative intercepts Shep as he's leaving he council chambers and offers him a ride back.
Bottom point - the golden rule for re-writing is simple - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
After Shep plummets to his death, we see a Cerberus shuttle swoop in after him. They pick up Shep and plug him on life support just minutes after his death. This makes Lazarus project FAR more believalbe.
Secondly, Someone else beign a mol/traitor...preferably for hte Shadow Broker. It just didn't make sense for Winters (was that his name?) to be it.
Then After Shep has talk with TIM and TIM explains the situation, Shep can just walk away. TIM won't stop him.
But as the player gets back to the Citadel, he finds that no one belives it's truly him and he's greeted with suspicion. The Council either can't or doesn't want to help him. Hence, it is established that the Cerberus is the only one that is actually willing to do something before Shep actually makes the decision to work with them. A Cerberus operative intercepts Shep as he's leaving he council chambers and offers him a ride back.
Bottom point - the golden rule for re-writing is simple - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
#110
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:45
CptData
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Saphra Deden wrote...
CptData wrote...
Also right now I'm not sure what to do with the old crew in case Shepard survives the beginning of ME2.
You don't have to do anything. I'm just posting my ideas but mostly following my own vision. However feel free to take any concepts of mine that you like and do what you will with them.
Was more referring to b09boy 's posting because s/he had a nice storyline for ME2.
ME2 comes with good features but lacks a really interesting story. Basically it's just this:
- Shepard returns
- Shepard investigates abducted colony
- Shepard learns of Collectors
- Shepard investigates colony under attack
- Shepard enters damaged Collector cruiser
- Shepard needs to get an IFF
- Shepard goes on a Suicide Mission to defeat the Collectors
Basically it's that. I'd say it doesn't fill much more than 10 hours of gameplay. You need 30 hours of gameplay to gather all needed squadmates plus do all loyality missions - means 75% of the story is "recruit and loyalty" - that's a bit too much. Yeah, you can skip the LM, but even then Shepard needs weeks to search the Galaxy - does s/he really have the time for that? Aren't the Collectors something you should deal ASAP?
I'd like to get rid of at least half of the recruitment + loyalty missions and add more "story missions" dealing with the Collectors. Lets give the feeling there IS time an issue and not just "who cares if they're abducting colonies, I still have to make Miranda, Jacob, Thane, Tali, Garrus and Zaeed happy".
#111
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:47
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
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Yeah, I hear you. I'd cut the squadmate roster in half myself.
#112
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 07:58
CptData
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Yeah, I hear you. I'd cut the squadmate roster in half myself.
Exactly. Or alternating. Instead of having up to 12 mates you should have not more than 6. I'll do that in my "reboot" - if you go down the Alliance road you'll have 6 or so other squadmates than if you would do the Ceberus arc.
Would look like this:
Alliance exclusive:
Tali, Garrus, Samara, Thane
Cerberus exclusive:
Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Zaeed
Both:
Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi, Legion
But only if we keep the original roster.
#113
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 08:05
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Well what I'd do is just merge certain characters maybe and drop others entirely.
Back in the day I proposed combining Jacob and Zaeed. Thus we wind up with a Jacob who is much older. He is a veteran Cerberus operative and knows the organization's true nature. He is a foil to Miranda who is younger and fully believes all the Cerberus propaganda.
Miranda herself is combined with Jack. She is a Cerberus test-tube baby with no real mother or father. Cerberus is all she knows and she's dedicated to the cause. She is insecure however and a bit naive. Jacob is sort of her long-time care-taker and friend.
Thane and Samara I combined to create a Samara who is disgruntled Justicar nearing the end of her life (though not sick or anything). She is somewhat disillusioned with the Code, having found herself long ago unable to resist knowing the people she has been force to kill.
Garrus I would cut except for perhaps one mission that would change depending on how you treated him in ME1.
Tali I'd cut too because she has no reason to be on the squad again in the first place.
Grunt I would replace with Okeer because I think Okeer is more interesting. Seeing him butt-heads with Mordin would be fun.
Back in the day I proposed combining Jacob and Zaeed. Thus we wind up with a Jacob who is much older. He is a veteran Cerberus operative and knows the organization's true nature. He is a foil to Miranda who is younger and fully believes all the Cerberus propaganda.
Miranda herself is combined with Jack. She is a Cerberus test-tube baby with no real mother or father. Cerberus is all she knows and she's dedicated to the cause. She is insecure however and a bit naive. Jacob is sort of her long-time care-taker and friend.
Thane and Samara I combined to create a Samara who is disgruntled Justicar nearing the end of her life (though not sick or anything). She is somewhat disillusioned with the Code, having found herself long ago unable to resist knowing the people she has been force to kill.
Garrus I would cut except for perhaps one mission that would change depending on how you treated him in ME1.
Tali I'd cut too because she has no reason to be on the squad again in the first place.
Grunt I would replace with Okeer because I think Okeer is more interesting. Seeing him butt-heads with Mordin would be fun.
#114
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 08:16
Lotion Soronarr
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CptData wrote...
Besides that, Saphra had that great idea to make Noveria Peak 15 to a Cerberus cell. I like that idea. So Cerberus and Saren work together to understand the Rachni for example. Both want to control the Rachni and create an army of them - Cerberus needs them to advance mankind over the other races, Saren needs them for his own army.
So they both work together and it works. No indoctrination of TIM needed. They're partners. One has to offer something the other wants and vice versa.
ANOTHER Cerberus cell/experiment?
Really, does the story need MORE Cerberus experiments? Really?
#115
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 08:17
CptData
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Makes sense - some characters are a bit redundant. I'll keep the original roster but will change the characters a bit and make them more interesting. Tali & Garrus need a purpose too - right now they seem to be on board to fill empty places and to make Shepard feel more comfortable (old faces and such). They should contribute something.
Tali: should start to get rid of her bad attitude towards Geth, especially after meeting Legion and learning more. I'd like to see her as one of the key characters making peace with Geth.
Garrus: his character should be shifted by Shepard's choices in ME. Either more paragon (frustrated ex-cop) or renegade (bad ex-cop) that lost faith in his life. Also he had a squad and lost some members to Sidonis trap, but not als. Paragonized Garrus just want to know why Sidonis betrayed him, Renegadized Garrus wants to hunt him down.
Besides that, Garrus should have connections to SB from his time as C-sec officer, showing that he not always worked by the rules.
Could be the same Cerberus cell working on the same project on different worlds. Works fine to me.
Tali: should start to get rid of her bad attitude towards Geth, especially after meeting Legion and learning more. I'd like to see her as one of the key characters making peace with Geth.
Garrus: his character should be shifted by Shepard's choices in ME. Either more paragon (frustrated ex-cop) or renegade (bad ex-cop) that lost faith in his life. Also he had a squad and lost some members to Sidonis trap, but not als. Paragonized Garrus just want to know why Sidonis betrayed him, Renegadized Garrus wants to hunt him down.
Besides that, Garrus should have connections to SB from his time as C-sec officer, showing that he not always worked by the rules.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
CptData wrote...
Besides that, Saphra had that great idea to make Noveria Peak 15 to a Cerberus cell. I like that idea. So Cerberus and Saren work together to understand the Rachni for example. Both want to control the Rachni and create an army of them - Cerberus needs them to advance mankind over the other races, Saren needs them for his own army.
So they both work together and it works. No indoctrination of TIM needed. They're partners. One has to offer something the other wants and vice versa.
ANOTHER Cerberus cell/experiment?
Really, does the story need MORE Cerberus experiments? Really?
Could be the same Cerberus cell working on the same project on different worlds. Works fine to me.
Modifié par CptData, 10 novembre 2011 - 08:18 .
#116
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 08:22
Lotion Soronarr
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Have mission to aquire Normandy upgrades and Collector data.
Not jsut buying the new shiny amor and insta-install it.
No..fly to a shipyards. Talk with constacts. Pay trough the nose. Do a side-mission on the planet while the armor is installed.
Not jsut buying the new shiny amor and insta-install it.
No..fly to a shipyards. Talk with constacts. Pay trough the nose. Do a side-mission on the planet while the armor is installed.
#117
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 09:22
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Upgrades should take time to install too. Like you apply them and maybe you have to complete a mission or something for them to take effect? If done right it could add a new dynamic to the "time" factor in the game.
#118
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 09:33
CptData
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Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Have mission to aquire Normandy upgrades and Collector data.
Not jsut buying the new shiny amor and insta-install it.
No..fly to a shipyards. Talk with constacts. Pay trough the nose. Do a side-mission on the planet while the armor is installed.
Saphra Deden wrote...
Upgrades should take time to install too. Like you apply them and maybe you have to complete a mission or something for them to take effect? If done right it could add a new dynamic to the "time" factor in the game.
I concur. It takes one mission (!) to install a piece of hardware with the Reaper IFF, but you can put Silaris Armor on the Normandy by clicking an option and "we're done"? I missed the ship section "workshop" ...
They simply should add a "progress bar" for most of the stuff. Lets say you want the new heavy armor - it should either take a ride to the next shipyard and take lets say a week to complete or four big missions (applied on the fly). The player decides here. Time should be an issue, so if you start too late to apply armor, you won't be able to finish it before SM.
Same for Thanix canon. The only upgrade I can see getting applied within a "click" or at least one single mission and "on the fly" is the shield upgrade. It looks as if Tali is just optimizing shield array and software ... not a big upgrade.
#119
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 10:11
TobyHasEyes
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Upgrades should take time to install too. Like you apply them and maybe you have to complete a mission or something for them to take effect? If done right it could add a new dynamic to the "time" factor in the game.
You guys sure know how to have fun -yawn-
#120
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 10:15
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TobyHasEyes wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
Upgrades should take time to install too. Like you apply them and maybe you have to complete a mission or something for them to take effect? If done right it could add a new dynamic to the "time" factor in the game.
You guys sure know how to have fun -yawn-
Thank you for that stimulating comment.
You see, I derive much of my fun from challenge. ME2 doesn't challenge as much as it could so it isn't as fun as it could be.
#121
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 11:11
CptData
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Saphra Deden wrote...
TobyHasEyes wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
Upgrades should take time to install too. Like you apply them and maybe you have to complete a mission or something for them to take effect? If done right it could add a new dynamic to the "time" factor in the game.
You guys sure know how to have fun -yawn-
Thank you for that stimulating comment.
You see, I derive much of my fun from challenge. ME2 doesn't challenge as much as it could so it isn't as fun as it could be.
It's not only the challenge but also will add some more deepness.
Also am I the only one who wants to see a severly damaged Normandy SR2 post SM? I mean you still can fly through the galaxy and do missions, so how's it possible to repair the Normandy post SM without visiting a dockyard? I'd love to see destroyed sections *g*
Lets say the best game is one where you fully get into it, where you forget the "reallife" as long as you're in the game. That's what ME!reboot should become.
#122
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 11:29
DiegoProgMetal
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Guys (and girls). You do know we could make a REAL game do you? Of course it wouldn't be ME, nor use any of it's characters. But...( here comes a big wall of text):
I'm a very skilled computer programmer, and I say that because I know the things I'm good, and the things I s*ck. I s*ck at making a story, creating 3d objetcs/character, drawing, texture creating and a long list of things needed to make a good game. Oh, I'm a musician/composer too, not so great, but I can pull out some good songs out of my sleeves...
Creating a game such as Mass Effect takes a really big team. I guess at least 200 people. Wolfenstein 3D (yes, the first) took 20 people working during 2 months to get done. Of course, at the time, there was no tools that could make things easier. Today, I (alone) could make that kind of game in 3 to 6 months. Games like the ones we see today are like skyscrapers. No one could possibly make it alone. If I tried, the game wouldn't be out before the year 4000 (I mean it).
That said, I'm sure many people here would like to be part of a game creation team. And many people here have wonderful skills in different areas of knowledge. I never made any game because of the obvious thing: I'm just one, and I can't afford to pay even one more person. A team of 200 people is just out of my league. And nobody would work for free.
But I have an initial idea. Yes, a space soap-opera in the likes of ME, but, with some very interesting things... I wont say what they are now.
If any of you is really interested in making a real game, even if you think you don't have the skills for it, PM me. Many different professionals are needed for a game creation. Most of them don't need to know anything about computer programming (leave that to me). Even if you are an inexperienced programmer, but is interested, youre welcome aboard. Cause you can't expect that this project gets released as a complete game before 2020. So, until there, everyone will have plenty of time to master the skills needed.
I know that many of you don't believe it's possible. But I swear to you: it's hard, it takes lots of time, it's like building a skyscraper, but everything that is needed is enough people with the skills for it. There is lots of good programmers, writers and everything else out there that could create a great game. But almost nobody can afford to pay a 200 people team for at least 5 years to make such thing happen (believe me, I tried to find out how much it would cost, and even if I won the lottery, I wouldn't be able to afford it).
A little explanation: the game would be closed source. MAYBE it'll be realeased for free. But I think if we really make the thing happen, we should get some money for it. And if we can make any money, it would be divided equally for everyone involved in the creation.
Just so you know: I thought about the concept of MMORPGs in 1992. 10 years later, Blizzard made millions of dollar with the same concept. There are other concepts that I thought during the 90's that today are being used in games. And there are some concepts in my mind that still aren't being used. If you ask me why I never made it happen, my answer is: money. No gears work without money.
With internet, there is no more the need of a phisycal studio, in a big building, with offices and such. Many software companies use outsourcing as a cheaper way to develop. I know some guys here in Brazil, that work for an american company, with Indians co-workers. But these guys are all in their respective countries.
Ok, lost myself in my own thoughts... Anyway. It's possible, and if you want to make it happen, PM me.
I'm a very skilled computer programmer, and I say that because I know the things I'm good, and the things I s*ck. I s*ck at making a story, creating 3d objetcs/character, drawing, texture creating and a long list of things needed to make a good game. Oh, I'm a musician/composer too, not so great, but I can pull out some good songs out of my sleeves...
Creating a game such as Mass Effect takes a really big team. I guess at least 200 people. Wolfenstein 3D (yes, the first) took 20 people working during 2 months to get done. Of course, at the time, there was no tools that could make things easier. Today, I (alone) could make that kind of game in 3 to 6 months. Games like the ones we see today are like skyscrapers. No one could possibly make it alone. If I tried, the game wouldn't be out before the year 4000 (I mean it).
That said, I'm sure many people here would like to be part of a game creation team. And many people here have wonderful skills in different areas of knowledge. I never made any game because of the obvious thing: I'm just one, and I can't afford to pay even one more person. A team of 200 people is just out of my league. And nobody would work for free.
But I have an initial idea. Yes, a space soap-opera in the likes of ME, but, with some very interesting things... I wont say what they are now.
If any of you is really interested in making a real game, even if you think you don't have the skills for it, PM me. Many different professionals are needed for a game creation. Most of them don't need to know anything about computer programming (leave that to me). Even if you are an inexperienced programmer, but is interested, youre welcome aboard. Cause you can't expect that this project gets released as a complete game before 2020. So, until there, everyone will have plenty of time to master the skills needed.
I know that many of you don't believe it's possible. But I swear to you: it's hard, it takes lots of time, it's like building a skyscraper, but everything that is needed is enough people with the skills for it. There is lots of good programmers, writers and everything else out there that could create a great game. But almost nobody can afford to pay a 200 people team for at least 5 years to make such thing happen (believe me, I tried to find out how much it would cost, and even if I won the lottery, I wouldn't be able to afford it).
A little explanation: the game would be closed source. MAYBE it'll be realeased for free. But I think if we really make the thing happen, we should get some money for it. And if we can make any money, it would be divided equally for everyone involved in the creation.
Just so you know: I thought about the concept of MMORPGs in 1992. 10 years later, Blizzard made millions of dollar with the same concept. There are other concepts that I thought during the 90's that today are being used in games. And there are some concepts in my mind that still aren't being used. If you ask me why I never made it happen, my answer is: money. No gears work without money.
With internet, there is no more the need of a phisycal studio, in a big building, with offices and such. Many software companies use outsourcing as a cheaper way to develop. I know some guys here in Brazil, that work for an american company, with Indians co-workers. But these guys are all in their respective countries.
Ok, lost myself in my own thoughts... Anyway. It's possible, and if you want to make it happen, PM me.
Modifié par DiegoProgMetal, 10 novembre 2011 - 11:43 .
#123
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 11:35
CptData
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Diego - I'm more a designer than programmer. I can do some basic stuff but nothing serious. Besides that I'd like to reboot ME and no other, similar game.
To create the backbone (engine, maps etc) doesn't take that long. Writing a story, developing characters, writing the screenplay - THAT takes a lot of time. It takes even more time the more people you involve, but you also can't do it alone.
I'd say if someone gives me a chance to be one of the story writers for ME!reboot, I'd take the chance. I even would move from Germany to Canada, leaving my fiancee for that. But yeah - that won't happen ever. And doing a game from scratch is -currently- not my cup of tea.
To create the backbone (engine, maps etc) doesn't take that long. Writing a story, developing characters, writing the screenplay - THAT takes a lot of time. It takes even more time the more people you involve, but you also can't do it alone.
I'd say if someone gives me a chance to be one of the story writers for ME!reboot, I'd take the chance. I even would move from Germany to Canada, leaving my fiancee for that. But yeah - that won't happen ever. And doing a game from scratch is -currently- not my cup of tea.
#124
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 11:42
DiegoProgMetal
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CptData wrote...
Diego - I'm more a designer than programmer. I can do some basic stuff but nothing serious. Besides that I'd like to reboot ME and no other, similar game.
To create the backbone (engine, maps etc) doesn't take that long. Writing a story, developing characters, writing the screenplay - THAT takes a lot of time. It takes even more time the more people you involve, but you also can't do it alone.
I'd say if someone gives me a chance to be one of the story writers for ME!reboot, I'd take the chance. I even would move from Germany to Canada, leaving my fiancee for that. But yeah - that won't happen ever. And doing a game from scratch is -currently- not my cup of tea.
Ok, no problem. I'm gonna start it anyway. The basic concepts and such. Hopefully, with the things already started some people might get in the boat too.
About being a designer, that is where I'm not good. So we are basically the opposite on this matter.
#125
Posté 10 novembre 2011 - 11:46
CptData
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I simply hate the "Grunt work". Don't get me wrong, it has to be done, but I'm more the "grey matter" in a project.
There's so much stuff in my mind, should be enough for 10 games or so, but I am not part of a developer team and won't be any time soon. After all I'm quite old (30) and come without any experience in that field - I'm an electrical engineering technician. Gamedevelopment is something you need to study in Germany, what's quite stupid if you have the gift ... but yeah, that stuff prevented me from becoming a dev.
And I won't end my current career without a chance to move into new profession. The chances are quite non-existent atm.
'nuff said about that *g*
There's so much stuff in my mind, should be enough for 10 games or so, but I am not part of a developer team and won't be any time soon. After all I'm quite old (30) and come without any experience in that field - I'm an electrical engineering technician. Gamedevelopment is something you need to study in Germany, what's quite stupid if you have the gift ... but yeah, that stuff prevented me from becoming a dev.
And I won't end my current career without a chance to move into new profession. The chances are quite non-existent atm.
'nuff said about that *g*
