350 réponses à ce sujet

[Candidate 88766]

Rewriting the Geth made me feel pretty bad. I think that mission would've been even better then it was if both choices gave you renegade points - I normally play paragon, but neither choice there as really a paragon one.

[Dianjabla]

Inprea wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I felt bad paragoning it a couple times, yeah.

1. Talking to Mordin about the genophage. Shepard seemed unnecessarily mean and didn't try to understand Mordin at all.

2. Rewriting the geth. Mass murder and mass mind control are both ugly, and every time, I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing.

I agree with one and agree even more strongly with two. I still don't know what one is the truly ethical thing to do. I sort of have to do some ethical loops to make a decision falling into the mind set that if you destroy a person's mind then you have effectively killed them. So if you look at it as forcefully altering someone's mind is the same as killing that person then it switches to.

1. Kill them all.
2. Kill them all but create new life from their death even if that new life may betray you later.

Of course on the other hand two could be seen as.

2. Kill them and create a mockery of their past existance defialing not just their corpse but their very identity. LIke a necromancer.

Or you could look at it this way...

1. Kill them all, thus eliminating another front in the war that could spell the extinction of all sentient life in the galaxy. But also possibly risk creating antipathy in the remaining Geth, who have no love of the Reapers and could possibly, if you play your cards right, be allies against the reapers in said war.

2. Correct an error in their programming (almost certainly introduced by the Reapers), thus strengthening the Geth who have no love of the Reapers and are potentially an ally in the comming war that could spell the extinction of all sentient life in the galaxy. But you also risk causing unease in the remaining geth at how cavalier you were in just rewriting their former compatriots and thus denying them their chance at self determination which seems to be of paramount importance to the Geth (despite them disagreeing with their choice).

Either route can be argued as a Paragon choice - if the greater good is looked at as "the big picture" - the fate of all life in the Galaxy (including the Geth) being dependent on a unified force facing the Reapers. It could also be argued that either choice is Renegade, I suppose on the basis of they're both pragmatic options.

In the end, it's a gamble - which do you think will have the better long-term pay-off?

Me? I always chose a rewrite. Ever since I met Legion I've gambled that I could later convince the Quarians & the Geth to come to a truce under the "if you don't you'll all die" argument. Followed with the you've got more in common than you think and could easily come to a mutually beneficial arangement.

Also, I chose to let the Rachni Queen go. We'll see if my gambles pay off when we see what ME3 brings.

[SirBoomstick]

Pharos wrote...

This used to bother me too until I realised that while the Paragon option advocates (and results in) the two staying together, Shep is not responsible for the Asari choosing to travel to Tuchunka afterwards. Its her choice.

You do have a point, but what gets me is that I was setting her up with a guy who is a liiiiiiiiittle too clingy.  I just didn't see it leading to a healthy relationship when I went through the game again.  The real Paragon choice is not getting involved (a stranger's romantic life shouldn't be my business).  But hey - there be discounts (We're in the money)!

At least that's the way I feel.

Modifié par SirBoomstick, 21 novembre 2011 - 10:39 .

[SirBoomstick]

Clicked "quote" instead of "edit".

Modifié par SirBoomstick, 21 novembre 2011 - 10:37 .

[CptData]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Rewriting the Geth made me feel pretty bad. I think that mission would've been even better then it was if both choices gave you renegade points - I normally play paragon, but neither choice there as really a paragon one.

Concur. Destroying the Heretics is some kind of genocide, rewriting them is brainwashing. It's as if you would kill smaller christian branches in favor of one of the big christian mainstream - or forcing them to believe what the mainstream believes.

That's one of the decisions where you can't say "good" or "bad". The "good" solution is to keep the Heretics as they are but load up a virus that prevents any futher spreading of the "Sovereign-Virus". So they can keep their believe while the rest of the Geth stay the same. I'm wondering why that option wasn't given - I would pick it over "rewriting" or "killing".

[DonutsDealer]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Rewriting the Geth made me feel pretty bad. I think that mission would've been even better then it was if both choices gave you renegade points - I normally play paragon, but neither choice there as really a paragon one.

Well, I guess many paragons who say rewritting them is bad did rewrite the YMIR on Garrus recruitment. Many people should consider that when they decide about the heretics. The geth and the YMIR are the same, a machine. They are both AI, a code, it does not think, it just acts according to their programming. Even the question about the geth having a soul is just a result of their code (maths as Legion says, and maths don't have a soul as far as I know). And yes, I agree that the morality system is messed there. Both paragons and renegades contradict themselves.

[Dean_the_Young]

Paragon also has strong themes of cooperation rather than destruction: making people agree when possible, which in this case it was.

It really doesn't violate any traditional Paragon theme.

[Barquiel]

Elnora seemed to enjoy her initiation test a bit too much. Well, maybe she has learned her lesson...

[CptData]

Barquiel wrote...

Elnora seemed to enjoy her initiation test a bit too much. Well, maybe she has learned her lesson...

She only made it out alive in my "canon" playthrough. Every following Shepard took her out, remembering that every Eclipse Sister needs to murder someone to get her Eclipse armor.

[xentar]

1) Saving the council;
2) Tali's loyalty (hiding the evidence);
3) Rewriting the heretic Geth;
4) Decisions souldn't be graded, especially in a way that affects character's personal abilities.

[Barquiel]

CptData wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Elnora seemed to enjoy her initiation test a bit too much. Well, maybe she has learned her lesson...

She only made it out alive in my "canon" playthrough. Every following Shepard took her out, remembering that every Eclipse Sister needs to murder someone to get her Eclipse armor.

Elnora killed a drug dealer. I don't think she deserves to die for that...and since Shep can't arrest her, she gets a second chance. I hope she will reconsider her career choice

[General User]

The only lesson Elnora is going to learn if Shepard lets her go is how easy humans are to manipulate.

[BlueMagitek]

"I was only pretending to fire at you!" is a hilariously weak excuse. >_>

But we're not here about that.

It's been a while, but one of the worst Paragon choices, if I remember it correctly, was in ME 1 where you were convincing an Alliance officer to release a soldier's body. Then bam! Slam into the wall. I was a bit stunned.

[CptData]

Barquiel wrote...

CptData wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Elnora seemed to enjoy her initiation test a bit too much. Well, maybe she has learned her lesson...

She only made it out alive in my "canon" playthrough. Every following Shepard took her out, remembering that every Eclipse Sister needs to murder someone to get her Eclipse armor.

Elnora killed a drug dealer. I don't think she deserves to die for that...and since Shep can't arrest her, she gets a second chance. I hope she will reconsider her career choice

Dunno. I don't really care for her, however, she enjoys killing that Volus a bit too much, drug dealer or not. I don't go out, kill people I don't like and feel proud of it. Murder stays a crime, even if the guy you murdered is a criminal.

Which is kinda funny: Shepard becomes a murderer if s/he kills Elnora ...

Modifié par CptData, 21 novembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[CroGamer002]

General User wrote...

The only lesson Elnora is going to learn if Shepard lets her go is how easy humans are to manipulate.

She was pretty much praying before you even enter her room.
I sure she was scared for life and thinking she made terrible choice in her life.




Will she learn anything from it, I dunno but I doubt she'll go on killing spree or do some other serious criminal activity.

Modifié par Mesina2, 21 novembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[General User]

Mesina2 wrote...
She was pretty much praying before you even enter her room.
I sure she was scared for life and thinking she made terrible choice in her life.

Will
she learn anything from it, I dunno but I doubt she'll go on killing
spree or do some other serious criminal activity.

Elnora positively delighted in killing someone who couldn't fight back, then batted her eyelashes and lied through her teeth when she ran into someone who could. 

Her viciousness is exceeded only by her cowardice.  If she's allowed to go free she will hurt and/or kill anyone she thinks is weaker than her.

CptData wrote...
Which is kinda funny: Shepard becomes a murderer if s/he kills Elnora ... ../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png

She pulled a gun.  Shepard's only mistake was posing for a oneliner before pulling the trigger.

Modifié par General User, 21 novembre 2011 - 02:42 .

[Barquiel]

CptData wrote...

Murder stays a crime, even if the guy you murdered is a criminal.

I agree. That's why I wanted to arrest her.

But Zaeed or Garrus murdered many more people than Elnora...and they seem to enjoy it too.

[CptData]

Barquiel wrote...

CptData wrote...

Murder stays a crime, even if the guy you murdered is a criminal.

I agree. That's why I wanted to arrest her.

But Zaeed or Garrus murdered many more people than Elnora...and they seem to enjoy it too.

You can put Samara in that line as well. She says the Code tells her doing what she does, but it's still murder. 

Seems the aliens in ME series have a different understanding of law - and murder doesn't seem to be a big deal like it is in our (western) world. Also mankind doesn't seem to have much problems with murder anymore. Yes, Shepard can do whatever s/he wants without getting arrested (Spectre!!!) ... but there are lots of mercenaries out there. I can't believe Zaeed can go on the Citadel, right through C-Sec and no one is asking Shepard why s/he's bringing a sought criminal ...

[General User]

CptData wrote...
You can put Samara in that line as well. She says the Code tells her doing what she does, but it's still murder. 

That's a real interesting idea!  What makes Zaeed's mercenary contracts any less worthy than Samara's Justicar Code?  I'm going to ponder that...

[CroGamer002]

General User wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
She was pretty much praying before you even enter her room.
I'm sure she was scared for life and thinking she made terrible choice in her life.

Will she learn anything from it, I dunno but I doubt she'll go on killing spree or do some other serious criminal activity.

Elnora positively delighted in killing someone who couldn't fight back, then batted her eyelashes and lied through her teeth when she ran into someone who could. 

Her viciousness is exceeded only by her cowardice.  If she's allowed to go free she will hurt and/or kill anyone she thinks is weaker than her.

I think half of my ME2 squad would do the same.


Also, would you admit you killed someone to person who's just slaughtering fellow criminals left and right?


There's nothing telling she would do it again.
Hell, she looks like some teen that thinks going criminal is great life. Though Shepard proven her dead wrong.



Whatever she'll do it again is yet to be seen in ME3.
And if it's written in leaked Beta script, don't you dare to reply with that! Even with that color tag!

[General User]

Mesina2 wrote...
I think half of my ME2 squad would do the same.

Who?  Apart form Morinth of course.

Grunt?  He considers fighting a weak opponent to be an insult to both parties.

Zaeed?  He's in it for the money, ditto Thane.  No malice involved there.

Garrus?  If anything his problem is that he tends to bite off more than he can chew (hence the Archangel fiasco).

Samara maybe?

Jack?... Yeah probably Jack.

Mesina2 wrote...
Also, would you admit you killed someone to person who's just slaughtering fellow criminals left and right?

Yes.  First of all I wouldn't abandon my fellows in the middle of a fight.  Second, if my side lost, I wouldn't dare insult the victors by pretending not to be with my own side.

Mesina2 wrote...
There's nothing telling she would do it again.
Hell, she looks like some teen that thinks going criminal is great life. Though Shepard proven her dead wrong.

It's the kind of person she is: cowardly, cruel, and manipulative.  Besides, if Shepard doesn't shoot her, Elnora only proves to herself that she can murder someone and get away with it.

Mesina2 wrote...
Whatever she'll do it again is yet to be seen in ME3.
And if it's written in leaked Beta script, don't you dare to reply with that! Even with that color tag!

No worries there, I haven't seen the Beta leaks.

Modifié par General User, 21 novembre 2011 - 03:34 .

[Barquiel]

General User wrote...


Zaeed?  He's in it for the money, ditto Thane.  No malice involved there.

Almost as bad as killing people for the heck of it.

[RoseLegion]

'Paragon' things every utilitarian Renegade should do
1. Save the Racni queen (she was the last not corrupted by the reapers)
2. Rewrite the Geth faction (they were brainwashed by the reapers)
3. Save the councilors (yes their self important, pompous, and many other things that aren't compliments either, but it means their species are in better fighting form rather than disarray)
4. Keep Wrex alive (unified Krogen under the leadership of a friend = more useful than divided Krogen who think you're a ******. Also, save Grunt for similar reasons, tho that's less important per se)
5. Keep the migrant fleet out of war with the Geth (who actually don't support the reapers)
6. Glass the collector station (shep has seen husks up close, shep has seen TIM eyes, trusting him with that tech no matter what he claims to have as motives = silly)

I find the mixed playthroughs are the most rewarding for me, tho I like to do "pure" and several mixes just to get a full feel for how things could shake out. Sorry if the above is considered too off topic, just seemed like the 'other side of the coin' as it were

[Labrev]

^ yep, I'm playing a utilitarian-renegade career right now and did all those things. But I kept the base. Reckless move, but he seems to think he could stop TIM/Cerberus from going too far if it comes to it (delusional idea, but that's what he thinks).

It actually didn't screw up my P/R score too bad either, half-way in I could still recruit Morinth (but didn't).

[RoseLegion]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

^ yep, I'm playing a utilitarian-renegade career right now and did all those things. But I kept the base. Reckless move, but he seems to think he could stop TIM/Cerberus from going too far if it comes to it (delusional idea, but that's what he thinks).

It actually didn't screw up my P/R score too bad either, half-way in I could still recruit Morinth (but didn't).

*nods* I can totally see that (re: base) considering his/her record I can see how a shep of almost any moral persuasion could get the "I  can handle it" idea even when in too deep.  
I can say I've done the same (in other instances) on some of my playthroughs, I find I often enjoy it a bit more when my shep has some human flaws as well