350 réponses à ce sujet

[AVPen]

BlueMagitek wrote...

It's been a while, but one of the worst Paragon choices, if I remember it correctly, was in ME 1 where you were convincing an Alliance officer to release a soldier's body. Then bam! Slam into the wall. I was a bit stunned.

The "slamming the officer into the wall" option is the Renegade response for getting him to releasing the soldier's body to her husband (the Paragon response is arguing that holding and experimenting on the body is at the cost of losing the Alliance's 'humanity').

Modifié par AVPen, 21 novembre 2011 - 06:27 .

[BlueMagitek]

Was it now? Regardless, completely unnecessary.

[Yezdigerd]

General User wrote...

Yes.  First of all I wouldn't abandon my fellows in the middle of a fight.  Second, if my side lost, I wouldn't dare insult the victors by pretending not to be with my own side.

I guess you are speaking from extensive fightning experience. Elnora pleads for leniency because she is a rookie and didn't know what being a mercenary entailed, by all accounts true and a sensible defence if you bother talking to her.

It's the kind of person she is: cowardly, cruel, and manipulative.  Besides, if Shepard doesn't shoot her, Elnora only proves to herself that she can murder someone and get away with it.

Elnora killed a a drugdealer that sold Eclipse performance enhancing drugs witholding the knowledge that it caused bodily injury. Renegade Shepard would have killed the Volus without a second thought. Which makes your character assement of her laughable. As for murder and get away with it, the other 50 eclipse sisters Shepard killed says otherwise. She must truly be terminally stupid to feel encouraged to a life of crime by being allowed to run away.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 21 novembre 2011 - 06:57 .

[Yezdigerd]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Was it now? Regardless, completely unnecessary.

Renegade responses usually are.

[General User]

Yezdigerd wrote...
I guess you are speaking from extensive fightning experience.

Actually... 

Yezdigerd wrote...
Elnora pleads for leniency because she is a rookie and didn't know what being a mercenary entailed...

She knew it involved murdering people.  She gleefully embraced that part.

Yezdigerd wrote...
As for murder and get away with it, the other 50 eclipse sisters Shepard killed says otherwise. She must truly be terminally stupid to feel encouraged to a life of crime by being allowed to run away.

Stupidity is not Elnora's prime fault (she's actually rather intelligent, after all she tricks most Paragons into letting her go), but rather it's cruelty.

Yezdigerd wrote...
Elnora killed a a drugdealer that sold Eclipse performance enhancing drugs witholding the knowledge that it caused bodily injury.

A dishonest blackmarket drug dealer?  What is the world (Illium in this case) coming to?

Modifié par General User, 21 novembre 2011 - 07:32 .

[Yezdigerd]

General User wrote...

Stupidity is not Elnora's prime fault (she's actually rather intelligent, after all she tricks most Paragons into letting her go), but rather it's cruelty.

What cruelty? By all accounts she killed the Volus instantly. That she found the experience enjoyable given the Volus actions would be perfectly understandable, especially for renegade shep. If you want to plug a mercenary who display cruelty you have Zaeed, who brags about torturing Krogans and burns innocent people alive.

Yezdigerd wrote...
Elnora killed a a drugdealer that sold Eclipse performance enhancing drugs witholding the knowledge that it caused bodily injury.

A dishonest blackmarket drug dealer?  What is the world (Illium in this case) coming to?

The point, you miss it. Renegade Shepard would have been just as "cruel"  making killing Elnora for great justice or crime prevention hypocritical and senseless. Killing her to safeguard the rear still works though.

[Malanek]

General User wrote...
Stupidity is not Elnora's prime fault (she's actually rather intelligent, after all she tricks most Paragons into letting her go), but rather it's cruelty.

Most? Are there stats on this? I would have thought that when she draws a gun most sheps would take the renegade interupt. She doesn't know whether shep is wanting paragon points or not.

[MegaBadExample]

The paragon choice made me feel sissy.

[General User]

Yezdigerd wrote...
What cruelty?

She chooses a needlessly gory way of killing someone.

Yezdigerd wrote...
That she found the experience enjoyable given the Volus actions would be perfectly understandable, especially for renegade shep.

The point, you miss it. Renegade Shepard would have been just as "cruel" making killing Elnora for great justice or crime prevention hypocritical and senseless.

Shooting an enemy criminal who fakes her surrender, then pulls a gun is hardly senseless.  And as far as "hypocritical" goes, Shepards are almost as different as the people that play them.

Yezdigerd wrote...
If you want to plug a mercenary who display cruelty you have Zaeed, who brags about torturing Krogans and burns innocent people alive.

We're talking about Zaeed now?  Umm... ok.  Sure, shoot Zaeed (if you can figure out a way).  In Zaeed's (who, despite being under Shepard's command, actually works for TIM) loyalty mission, Shepard has the option of knocking Zaeed back into line and saving the lives he endangered.  IOW, the Paragon choice is the right one in that mission.  Fair enough?

Yezdigerd wrote...

Killing her to safeguard the rear still works though.

The reason everyone should kill Elnora is obvious: because she pulled a gun.  Any further thought on the matter is over-thinking it. 

But if you want to talk about what kind a person Elnora was then the answer is equally obvious: Elnora was a coward, a manipulator, and a murderer.

IOW, not only was shooting Elnora the right thing to do, but she was a person deserving of being shot.

Malanek999 wrote...
Most? Are there stats on this? I would have thought that when she draws a gun most sheps would take the renegade interupt. She doesn't know whether shep is wanting paragon points or not.

My assumption in this case was that Paragon players will not take a Renegade interupt.  I could be wrong, sure.  But more importantly know that I meant no offense to any Paragon player anyone who has enough wit and sense to realize that shooting Elnora is absolutely the right thing to do.

Modifié par General User, 21 novembre 2011 - 11:45 .

[CptBomBom00]

Some paragon choices were bit, off like letting that Enolya killer go, I always choose to kill her or that talking krogan, same thing here.

[magelet]

Not helping Zaeed in his loyalty mission. I can't do it.

Also berating Mordin about the genophage. It just sounds very ignorant and like Shepard is getting on his/her high horse about it without really understanding.

[Malanek]

magelet wrote...
Not helping Zaeed in his loyalty mission. I can't do it.

You mean you think it is morally wrong to save all the people? Which is the only paragon option I can think of here which doesn't help Zaeed. The only hard part of that is turning down the assault rifle upgrade you would get.

Modifié par Malanek999, 22 novembre 2011 - 04:05 .

[ShadowSplicer]

The only times I've ever really not wanted to be a Paragon (and most of the time I just go about doing what I would do) were when I had to yell at Garrus to be more careful, particularly when I can say 'Nice shot.' in Mass Effect 1 and allow him to shoot the Mech in Mass Effect 2 (really don't see why that's a Renegade one). Regardless, I still do support Shepard when he says that it's not just about getting the job done, it's about getting it done right. It's just those few moments that he comes off as an ass. Also, Shepard is being cruel in Mass Effect 2 if he ignores that epic Renegade interrupt where he shoots the explosive container because it is evil to rob that krogan of an awesome death sequence! =D

[clone wars]

did my paragon choice ever make me feel bad no not at all

[Ticktank]

I felt disgusted when the choice to LIE to the admiralty board (Tali's loyalty mission) is a Paragon one. I guess doing the right thing doesn't apply when it involves a Lolita's daddy.

[Yezdigerd]

General User wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...
What cruelty?

She chooses a needlessly gory way of killing someone.

I doubt you know anything about the least gory, yet least painful  way to kill a Volus, and for all we know the choice of weapon could have been Elnora's superiors, not hers. You have no case.

Yezdigerd wrote...
Shooting an enemy criminal who fakes her surrender, then pulls a gun is hardly senseless.  And as far as "hypocritical" goes, Shepards are almost as different as the people that play them.

As I wrote, killing her as such is not senseless, Killing her for murdering the drugdealer is. Had the Volus sold the drug to Shepard and his mates and sent them into seizures, just about every player would have killed him as well and you would have gone on about how stupid it would be to do otherwise.

Yezdigerd wrote...
If you want to plug a mercenary who display cruelty you have Zaeed, who brags about torturing Krogans and burns innocent people alive.

We're talking about Zaeed now?  Umm... ok.  Sure, shoot Zaeed (if you can figure out a way).  In Zaeed's (who, despite being under Shepard's command, actually works for TIM) loyalty mission, Shepard has the option of knocking Zaeed back into line and saving the lives he endangered.  IOW, the Paragon choice is the right one in that mission.  Fair enough?

Nope, the point is that Zaeed, like Elnora, is a mercenary who kills and torture people for money, we see and hear him readily comitt atrocities that make Elnora schoolgirl material. Yet the renegade players love him.That Shepard can force Zaeed's from burning people alive doesn't make Zaeed less of a scumbag.

But if you want to talk about what kind a person Elnora was then the answer is equally obvious: Elnora was a coward, a manipulator, and a murderer.

Elnora said she joined Eclipse to travel the universe and "kill bad guys" but became disenchanted since they deal in drugs and help ardath yakshis. You don't know if this is false, you just want it to be. Yes, she lies about having never pulled a gun but that doesn't mean her disillusion with mercenary life isn't real, given the circumstances it would be strange if it wasn't.

My assumption in this case was that Paragon players will not take a Renegade interupt.

You can assume most players kills her when made aware she lied to them, people dislike being fooled and it's easy renegade points.

[CptData]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Elnora said she joined Eclipse to travel the universe and "kill bad guys" but became disenchanted since they deal in drugs and help ardath yakshis. You don't know if this is false, you just want it to be. Yes, she lies about having never pulled a gun but that doesn't mean her disillusion with mercenary life isn't real, given the circumstances it would be strange if it wasn't.

Isn't it what she said to Shepard to get out of that situation?
Who believes the liar?

Everyone knows the Eclipse are just a bunch of freelancers (best interpretation) or some guns for hire who will take down anyone that got tagged. Elnore should have known this, so there's no way to justify her presence in that group.


The entire Elnora-situation lacks a paragon-interrupt - taking her down a non-lethal way.

[Big I]

Apart from rewriting the geth the paragon option I always had the most problem was the N7: Javelin Missiles mission. You can either save the colony and sacrifice thousands of lives, or save the civilians but be forced of the planet. It's a no-win scenario.

[silver_sparrow]

I was conflicted with what I should do with the Collectors base ( save or destroy it.)

and whether or not I should save the council. (save the council or let the council die.)

I chose the renegade option for both.

[General User]

Yezdigerd wrote...
I doubt you know anything about the least gory, yet least painful  way to kill a Volus,

I might... 

I will say that point blank exploding rounds that rupture the environment suit of a species that "explodes" on contact with our atmosphere, ain't it.

Yezdigerd wrote...
and for all we know the choice of weapon could have been Elnora's superiors, not hers. You have no case.

She pulled the trigger, and was happy to do it.

Yezdigerd wrote...
Nope, the point is that Zaeed, like Elnora, is a mercenary who kills and torture people for money, we see and hear him readily comitt atrocities that make Elnora schoolgirl material. Yet the renegade players love him.That Shepard can force Zaeed's from burning people alive doesn't make Zaeed less of a scumbag.

Zaeed is brutal and ruthless, but he's not a liar and he's not a coward.  You don't have to like someone to respect them.

Yezdigerd wrote...
Elnora said she joined Eclipse to travel the universe and "kill bad guys" but became disenchanted since they deal in drugs and help ardath yakshis. You don't know if this is false, you just want it to be. Yes, she lies about having never pulled a gun but that doesn't mean her disillusion with mercenary life isn't real, given the circumstances it would be strange if it wasn't.

Elnora became disenchanted with mercenary life when (and only when) Shepard and Co. went through her mates "like crap through a goose."  Bullies and thugs often don't like it when they run into someone tougher than them, doesn't mean they'll reform.

Modifié par General User, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:19 .

[HiroVoid]

The reasoning for sparing Anora is essentially this.

Officer: You're being charged with the murder of this man.
Suspect: But now that I'm in jail, I know I don't want to murder.
Officer: Good point. Let him go.

[Nerevar-as]

Malanek999 wrote...

magelet wrote...
Not helping Zaeed in his loyalty mission. I can't do it.

You mean you think it is morally wrong to save all the people? Which is the only paragon option I can think of here which doesn't help Zaeed. The only hard part of that is turning down the assault rifle upgrade you would get.

With the paragon path you have the Cain for Horizon. That´s about 2/3 of the Praetorian bar on Insanity. Beats a 10% damage bonus to AR for me.

Besides a few moments I felt naive (Elnora), the worst paragon moment is justifying the death of the Council because it creates opportunities. WTH?

And despite playing paragon I take any renegade interupt I think will help in a combat situation. If I have to kll them anyway I have no problem playing dirty.

[xentar]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
Depends on why you're a paragon. If you're trying to save people, it's fairly clear. I admit I had to think for a moment the first time I did it, but just for a moment.

Some people are in it for the points...

[Nerevar-as]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Apart from rewriting the geth the paragon option I always had the most problem was the N7: Javelin Missiles mission. You can either save the colony and sacrifice thousands of lives, or save the civilians but be forced of the planet. It's a no-win scenario.

My reasoning there was that if the colony wasn´t worth building another spaceport, then it´s not that important. So I chose the people.