350 réponses à ce sujet

[Vegos]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Surely you mean both options were good, provided you saw them as being equal?

"Both options were about of the same value" would be more accurate. Good or bad, we will never know. Only a geth collective would know which one is bad, which one is good, or, indeed, if ANY of the two is actually good or bad.

And we are not a geth collective.

Even Legion were split nearly 50/50 between the two, and they ARE a geth, so there's no way you can say you know what the geth would prefer. They also never used the "good", "bad", "better", "worse", "right" or "wrong" for any choice, merely referring to them as "different".

Modifié par Vegos, 09 novembre 2011 - 05:42 .

[Izhalezan]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I saw both options as viable but blowing them up edges out because making the geth stronger is just too much of a gamble.

Doesn't Legion also mention that bringing them back in could be bad becausse of the memories shared or w/e and it could make all geth heretics? I dunno, I finished my last Shep a while ago...

[Night Wraith]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I felt bad paragoning it a couple times, yeah.

1. Talking to Mordin about the genophage. Shepard seemed unnecessarily mean and didn't try to understand Mordin at all.

2. Rewriting the geth. Mass murder and mass mind control are both ugly, and every time, I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing.

Totally agree with the Geth.  Would you rather be mind raped or dead.  Both suck.

[Labrev]

 I'd have to say blowing up the base is probably it for me, because of how disappointed TIM was.


But, it was for his own good. I made that decision so he wouldn't try to do... what it sounds like he is going to do. But, I've got 3 other careers out of 5 where he gets/will be getting it though so there, nom nom nom TIM!

[Vegos]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

No, blowing up heretic geth cannot be anything other than good.

Good for who?

It's most ceirtainly not good for THEM?

Why are we constantly assuming that "good for me" and "good for everyone" are the same things?

[Labrev]

Night Wraith wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I felt bad paragoning it a couple times, yeah.

1. Talking to Mordin about the genophage. Shepard seemed unnecessarily mean and didn't try to understand Mordin at all.

2. Rewriting the geth. Mass murder and mass mind control are both ugly, and every time, I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing.

Totally agree with the Geth.  Would you rather be mind raped or dead.  Both suck.

They're just machines. They don't feel dispair (per Legion in a conversation on Normandy).

[pfhorlorn]

Vegos wrote...

Good for who?

It's most ceirtainly not good for THEM?

Why are we constantly assuming that "good for me" and "good for everyone" are the same things?

Clearly, Shepard is the Greek god of objective morality. "What I say is right is right!"

Modifié par koopaonfire, 09 novembre 2011 - 05:51 .

[Vegos]

koopaonfire wrote...

Clearly, Shepard is the Greek god of objective morality.

No, but we are pretending to be those, so we may at least do the ancient gods of objective morality a courtesy of acting them out properly.

[Vegos]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Everything Shepard does isn't good for somebody.

Now you're getting it.

Paragon/renegade isn't about being "good" or doing the "right" thing, after all.

(That's my point, by the way)

Modifié par Vegos, 09 novembre 2011 - 05:53 .

[111987]

Vegos wrote...

And it WOULD be a good justification. Nobody has ever, EVER come back the same from studying reaper technology. EVER. We don't have a reason to believe that  Cerberus would, do we?

The argument here is a). it is worth the risk (of keeping the base) with the Reapers on the way, and . Collector technology=/= Reaper technology.

Alas, that is a discussion for another thread.

[Vegos]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

It seems more like your point is that there is no right thing at all, and that nothing Shepard does, whether saving colonies or executing people, is either moral or immoral.

I'm saying that it's impossible to take all variables into account, so Paragon/Renegade is about how you do things, not about your moral compass.

When facing a platoon of active geth heretics, the choice is pretty straight forward, but when you have a choice between reformatting or destroying a base of dormant ones, we enter a gray area.

Modifié par Vegos, 09 novembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[Night Wraith]

koopaonfire wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Good for who?

It's most ceirtainly not good for THEM?

Why are we constantly assuming that "good for me" and "good for everyone" are the same things?

Clearly, Shepard is the Greek god of objective morality. "What I say is right is right!"

Isn't that true of most player characters?

[Aurora313]

I just go pure renegade or pure paragon and see the results Mostly just paragade though.

[Vegos]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I wasn't saying that the choice between the two wasn't iffy; just that it wasn't between two negative outcomes. Some people seem to think that both options are morally wrong somehow, and I was attempting to point out that it was not the case.

Yes, that's also true. I was mostly trying to say both are morally ambiguous. People go "I'd rather die than be brain raped", sure, I understand, same with me, but can they say with ceirtainty that a geth would consider it that way too?

Modifié par Vegos, 09 novembre 2011 - 06:12 .

[Kmead15]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

No, blowing up heretic geth cannot be anything other than good. They're Reaper-worshipping robots who wish destruction on all organic life. Wiping them out is certainly good, much as Shepard was doing good every other time he/she fought them (Feros, Virmire, Haestrom., etc.)

I think one way to look at it is that killing is wrong, screwing with free will is wrong, and allowing the heretics to terrorize the galaxy is wrong. Essentially, you're starting from null and choosing what option will be least harmful.

However, you can also look at it from the standpoint that the heretics are terrorizing the galaxy. So long as you believe blowing them up or rewriting them is less wrong than the starting conditions,  the removal of those conditions will result in a net gain.

[Balek-Vriege]

Izhalezan wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I saw both options as viable but blowing them up edges out because making the geth stronger is just too much of a gamble.

Doesn't Legion also mention that bringing them back in could be bad becausse of the memories shared or w/e and it could make all geth heretics? I dunno, I finished my last Shep a while ago...

Kind of.  He says who know's what the effects of the other strain of thought will be on the true Geth once they begin communicating with eachother again.

If anything goes wrong (which it most likely will) i'm blaming Legion.  He couldn't come up with a consensus concerning the issue and a small majority of programs were in favour of hacking them.  So I chose to hack them.

The responsibility is all on him.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 09 novembre 2011 - 06:14 .

[Chaosty]

I find this one situation in Omega pretty funny. The merchant supperessing the quarian.
Renegade -> Make, Diplomaticly, the merchant buy up the quarian, which gives him money to leave the station.
Paragon -> Punch the mercant until he stops beeing an ass..

Roles reversed much

[mybudgee]

I believe it comes down to role-playing. How would a real person, not a fictional character react to some of these circumstances?? Probably not always the same, but mostly. Just like all of us have times in our lives when we look back & say "that wasn't like me...what was I thinking?"