350 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Well if that is the case why lecture Mordin? He says if he'd been there when the krogan were uplifted he'd have been against it.

Paragon Shepard just being a holier-than-though ****** as I see it.

Well, that's academic. The thing is that even Mording feels conflicted by his work on the genophage modification.

[Ravensword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sure, but he knows it was the right thing. Paragon Shepard has no answer, no alternative. So why try to convince him he was wrong?

Was it even right in the first place?

[Selene Moonsong]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Do you think the salarians were wrong to apply the genophage (and modify it) or wrong to uplift the krogan in the first place?

If you are asking me, yes on all three.

But I also understand their reasoning for the Salarian choices through my conversations with Mordin, even if the sterile data is flawed.

What Salarians lack as a species is sustainable emotions regarding their actions. Their emotions are short-lived, as you learn through Mordin, and do not dwell long over the results of their actions.  Instead, they study and crunch numbers to determine a way of correcting for their mistakes and miscalculations after the fact, treating it as new data to consider.

I believe that Mordin sincerely feels regret as well, and is probably more emotional than the avarage Brilliant Salarian Scientist. Compared to most Salarians, not only is he Brilliant, but is becoming more enlightened as well.

[Arijharn]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

I don't lock myself into strict paragon.  I just play natural to myself and that ends up being paragon probably 90% of the time.  But I don't really consider creative ways of killing bad guys to be an "evil" thing.  Its just smart tactics.  Yeah maybe a guy being electrocuted to death by a sodering tool jamed in his spine is cruel and unusual punishment, but end of the day hes still dead if its that or a bullet to the face.  If that diserves renegade points, then every single kill you make should net you some.  The more painful the death, the more renegade it is.  But **** that, the karma system would be completely broken in that case. 

So yeah, the paragon angel of humanity sometimes gets his hands dirty, thats just part of the job discription.  At least I don't go around punching jerk reporters in the face.  I destroy them with logic. 

I'm pretty similar, although I have to admit sometimes I get very 'intimidating' to people I perceive as being either really stupid (like the Eclipse merc having the nerve to actually taunt you when you've appeared after slaughtering your way through his cohorts downstairs, and continues to be antagonistic when you're two buddies are pointing weapons to him yet he has no support. I think this person is the ultimate ME incarnation of someone who's a dumb ass) or being otherwise easily cajoled (like 'bleed out' guy).

I'm pretty friendly to others, but I act according to what I'd do if I was in that situation, that's why I keep the genophage cure (bargaining chip) and keep the collector base (unknowns faced with it is better in my opinion than facing unknowns without it)

[Ravensword]

Is it comforting to you, Saphra?

[Arijharn]

Ravensword wrote...
Well, that's academic. The thing is that even Mording feels conflicted by his work on the genophage modification.

I think it's important to note however that he doesn't feel conflicted about the necessity of his work, rather the ethical rammifications of his work, which I don't think is the same thing.

[AllianceN7Marine]

I'm paragon throughout except for the final meeting with the elusive man after blowing up the collector base, there I choose the renegade options as I think they fit better with Shepards character:

"We're doing things my way from now on, you can either help or get the hell out of my way"

or words to that effect, and the elusive man seems to expect this option better than the paragon choice.

[Ravensword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Is it comforting to you, Saphra?

Is what comforting to me?

That he feels guilty?

[onelifecrisis]

Mordin's loyalty mission choice isn't too bad because there are four options, two of which are more neutral than the other two. "Help the Krogan" is the all out paragon option, but "save the data for now; better to have it and not need it" is more neutral with just a hint of paragon.

Legion's mission could have done with more neutral choices like these. In addition to the choices already there, they could have added:

3) "I would rather die fighting than have my "soul" erased and my body possessed by another. Destroy the base."
4) "Let's just delete the virus and leave." (base doesn't get destroyed, but heretics don't get re-written either)

That would have been better IMO.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 10 novembre 2011 - 02:45 .

[Yezdigerd]

Another thing is that we are lead to assume all the Salarian brainwork and simulations is an actual prediction of the future. Yet we have plenty of examples in our history of smart people with degrees that ultimately was proven wrong. Like say the domino theory.

[mauro2222]

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

...such as blowing up the base - without meta-knowledge of ME3 I still believe keeping it was the right decision at the time, but there are good reasons for destroying it as well...

No there aren't.

Paragon Shepard's reasoning was terrible for destroying the base. If he/she said something like "we can't risk indoctrination" it would have been a little better (although I know you'll argue against this point, it still is somewhat of a justification). But what does 'saving the soul of our species' even mean?

To save our humanity, our values and morals, respect for all kinds of life, equality and love. What's the point of saving us if we sacrifice our humanity in the process?... we cease to exist, because we loose what makes us humans.

[Dean_the_Young]

mauro2222 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

...such as blowing up the base - without meta-knowledge of ME3 I still believe keeping it was the right decision at the time, but there are good reasons for destroying it as well...

No there aren't.

Paragon Shepard's reasoning was terrible for destroying the base. If he/she said something like "we can't risk indoctrination" it would have been a little better (although I know you'll argue against this point, it still is somewhat of a justification). But what does 'saving the soul of our species' even mean?

To save our humanity, our values and morals, respect for all kinds of life, equality and love. What's the point of saving us if we sacrifice our humanity in the process?... we cease to exist, because we loose what makes us humans.

Shepard picks up weapons, ammo, and tech from nasty enemies he kills all the time. In fact, half the game is about scrounging tech and giving it to Cerberus, and finding the Reaper-tech that will allow you to stop the Reapers, so it can't be about how giving technology to Cerberus is species self-destructive.

What, precisely, is so destructive to our previous morals, respect for all life, etc., about keeping the Collector Base?

More to the point, since when is Shepard all of Humanity? If Shepard destroys his own values and morals and whatever else, how does that ruin the species?

Seems pretty self-centered and arrogant to me.

[onelifecrisis]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

...such as blowing up the base - without meta-knowledge of ME3 I still believe keeping it was the right decision at the time, but there are good reasons for destroying it as well...

No there aren't.

Paragon Shepard's reasoning was terrible for destroying the base. If he/she said something like "we can't risk indoctrination" it would have been a little better (although I know you'll argue against this point, it still is somewhat of a justification). But what does 'saving the soul of our species' even mean?

To save our humanity, our values and morals, respect for all kinds of life, equality and love. What's the point of saving us if we sacrifice our humanity in the process?... we cease to exist, because we loose what makes us humans.

Shepard picks up weapons, ammo, and tech from nasty enemies he kills all the time. In fact, half the game is about scrounging tech and giving it to Cerberus, and finding the Reaper-tech that will allow you to stop the Reapers, so it can't be about how giving technology to Cerberus is species self-destructive.

What, precisely, is so destructive to our previous morals, respect for all life, etc., about keeping the Collector Base?

More to the point, since when is Shepard all of Humanity? If Shepard destroys his own values and morals and whatever else, how does that ruin the species?

Seems pretty self-centered and arrogant to me.

I agree. The whole "soul of our species" thing was garbage. That said, I wouldn't want to hand the base to Cerberus. I liked the line where Shepard said something like "strength for humanity, or just for Cerberus?"

I'd hate to think what TIM would do with that kind of tech. It might well be even worse than what the reapers do with it.

[Wulfram]

I mostly dislike it when there's a lack of a third option, despite it being practical.  Like arresting the bad guy instead of killing them or letting them get off scot free.  Or giving the base to the Alliance or the Council rather than destroying it or giving it to Cerberus.

Modifié par Wulfram, 10 novembre 2011 - 04:35 .

[RamirezWolfen]

I dislike letting criminals go, and not giving the evidence during Tali's loyalty mission.

[RamirezWolfen]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

It's easy to separate stuff in a game from real life, but would any of you support us re-opening Auswitz and taking the data from the gassings and finding ways to use that? Because that's what the Collector's Base looks like to me.

Auschwitz and the Collector Base are completely different.

Auschwitz was a concentration camp with no other purpose than killing people. The Collector Base is different.

[onelifecrisis]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

It's easy to separate stuff in a game from real life, but would any of you support us re-opening Auswitz and taking the data from the gassings and finding ways to use that? Because that's what the Collector's Base looks like to me.

I'm sure that if any useful information had been there, they'd have used it. I gather the n a z i's did weird experiments (don't know if it was at Aushwitz) like giving someone an orange juice transfusion or replacing bone with wood to see what happened. I can't remember the exact details but it sounded more like demented torture than real science. Nevertheless, if useful information had been found, I'm sure it would have been used.

Thalidomide (sp?) produced some useful data, namely that thalidomide ****s up human feotuses. That data has been used since: thalidomide is no longer prescribed to pregnant women.

Edit:
Apparently n a z i is a bad word here. Also I misspelled thalidomide.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 10 novembre 2011 - 04:43 .

[onelifecrisis]

Oh. My. God.
This forum considers n a z i to be a bad word? Jeezus christ.