350 réponses à ce sujet

[RamirezWolfen]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

It's easy to separate stuff in a game from real life, but would any of you support us re-opening Auswitz and taking the data from the gassings and finding ways to use that? Because that's what the Collector's Base looks like to me.

Auschwitz and the Collector Base are completely different.

Auschwitz was a concentration camp with no other purpose than killing people. The Collector Base is different.

The Collector Base was made to make a Reaper who will...kill people.

And harvest more people, not just killing them.

[mauro2222]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Shepard picks up weapons, ammo, and tech from nasty enemies he kills all the time. In fact, half the game is about scrounging tech and giving it to Cerberus, and finding the Reaper-tech that will allow you to stop the Reapers, so it can't be about how giving technology to Cerberus is species self-destructive.

I was explaining what Shepard meant with the soul of our species, not if he is an hypocrite.
And besides, which tech was given to Cerberus? If I recall all of it it's on the Normandy.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What, precisely, is so destructive to our previous morals, respect for all life, etc., about keeping the Collector Base?

More to the point, since when is Shepard all of Humanity? If Shepard destroys his own values and morals and whatever else, how does that ruin the species?

Seems pretty self-centered and arrogant to me.

Whatever TIM plans to do with the CB he is going to use it on humanity. Shepard's values and morals aren't the only ones compromised here. That tech is tainted with the blood of innocents, by using it, you're doing exactly the same that the collectors have done.

Modifié par mauro2222, 10 novembre 2011 - 04:50 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Tis' why you can't play extremes.

[RamirezWolfen]

I think I see what you're getting at though, Eternal. And I agree with you.

I just didn't agree with the Auschwitz comparison.

[Dean_the_Young]

mauro2222 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Shepard picks up weapons, ammo, and tech from nasty enemies he kills all the time. In fact, half the game is about scrounging tech and giving it to Cerberus, and finding the Reaper-tech that will allow you to stop the Reapers, so it can't be about how giving technology to Cerberus is species self-destructive.

I was explaining what Shepard meant with the soul of our species, not if he is an hypocrite.

If he's a hypocrite, then the soul of the species has already been lost. What's already been lost can not be lost again: it's like appealing to someone to keep their virginity after they've been sleeping around for monthes.

Whatever TIM plans to do with the CB he is going to use it on humanity. Shepard's values and morals aren't the only ones compromised here.

And how does TIM control Humanity's morals by taking the Base? If TIM can do that, doesn't he already control Human morals? (And wouldn't that  violate the Human morality of individualism and self-responsibility?)

Are you a literal believer that Cerberus is Humanity?

[mauro2222]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If he's a hypocrite, then the soul of the species has already been lost. What's already been lost can not be lost again: it's like appealing to someone to keep their virginity after they've been sleeping around for monthes.

Ugg... it was my explanation of the soul of our species, it was outside the context of ME's universe.

And how does TIM control Humanity's morals by taking the Base? If TIM can do that, doesn't he already control Human morals? (And wouldn't that  violate the Human morality of individualism and self-responsibility?)

You don't get it... Nobody here controls all human morals but you can alter them, damage them. I'm talking about very specific individuals (TIM and Shepard). While paragon Shepard has in mind what I previously stated, TIM does not. He prefers to sacrifice our humanity in order to achieve whatever the hell he wants.

Are you a literal believer that Cerberus is Humanity?

Yes, I thought that TIM was god <_<

Modifié par mauro2222, 10 novembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[Alamar2078]

I don't recall too many paragon choices that made me feel bad ... The only complaint I have is that sometimes the description or my imagination of what Shep would say or do didn't match what he actually did.

[Degs29]

I've actually been put off a bit by it such as during Jacob's loyalty mission in mass effect 2. I honestly wasn't satisfied with letting Jacob's father live and felt I'd somehow wronged his victims by not letting them rip him apart just as he feared.

In a similar line of reasoning I felt bad whenever I didn't push the eclipse mercenary out of the window during the Thane recruitment mission. After what they did to the workers he really deserved to die. I'm thinking I'm going to give Mass Effect two another play through now that I'm thinking about this and be more honest to myself on those choices.

The reason sparing both those people is a paragon choice is that doing otherwise means you are dispensing your own justice.  Same with letting that mercenary go in Samara's recruitment mission.  There is a reason we have a "jury of our peers" in our society.  Do you have the right to pronounce sentence and carry out judgement?

That said, it's a game lol.

[Ultai]

They're not designed to make you feel bad. Well perhaps one exception to the rule is paragon Shep's attitude toward Mordin's predicament in his loyalty mission. Comes off heavily self-righteous and oblivious to the science involved with the genophage.

[Kentuckan]

My paragon choices made me feel bad when I came on this forum and was indirectly ridiculed by die hard renegades.

[CptBomBom00]

I mainly play paragon but, i have completed the game lot's of times and I only do necessary renegade actions,also I like this bug on Samara LM, it's actually helpful.

[Nashiktal]

Ravensword wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Is it comforting to you, Saphra?

Is what comforting to me?

That he feels guilty?

That seemed to come from out of nowhere.

Personally I am glad he feels guilt but it would be foolish to put human values onto him like that, and hell probably criminal as well. He is a salarian, he has a salarian brain with salarian emotions and salarian cultural values.

Paragon shep is a dick during his loyalty mission. He is constantly pushing at mordin making him emotionally unstable in the middle of a krogan battlefield, offers no alternatives and does not leave the unchangable past alone.

Mordin was already feeling guilty and at this point its just kicking the dog while he's down. The dog who also happens to save your ass and makes your entire mission possible.Making him unstable seems neither smart, nor very friendlike.

[SandTrout]

Choosing to save the Council in the Battle of the Citadel would make me feel bad because as the situation is presented, it's gambling the Galaxy for the sake of 3 politicians and a few thousand Asari.

[Nashiktal]

SandTrout wrote...

Choosing to save the Council in the Battle of the Citadel would make me feel bad because as the situation is presented, it's gambling the Galaxy for the sake of 3 politicians and a few thousand Asari.

It didn't make me feel bad until I figured out how little the choice changes the situation. When I was first faced with the choice I foolishly thought saving the destiny ascension would do two things.

1. Free the up the only dreadnought available for battle.

2. Get rid of the geth fleet that would be at the alliance fleets back.

Now that I know the choice doesn't change anything and I win either way I sometimes flip a coin if I am not roleplaying.

[Selene Moonsong]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of that, by the way.

Please explain what you don't undestand and I will attempt to clarify.

[Sgt Stryker]

Degs29 wrote...

The reason sparing both those people is a paragon choice is that doing otherwise means you are dispensing your own justice.  Same with letting that mercenary go in Samara's recruitment mission.  There is a reason we have a "jury of our peers" in our society.  Do you have the right to pronounce sentence and carry out judgement?

That said, it's a game lol.

If you're still a Spectre, sure. Although I'm not sure if even that counts, since you're technically not in the Attican Traverse. Ah, the intricacies of galactic law....

[Arijharn]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

It's easy to separate stuff in a game from real life, but would any of you support us re-opening Auswitz and taking the data from the gassings and finding ways to use that? Because that's what the Collector's Base looks like to me.

Modern medicine owes a lot to n a z i science experiments. Here's to name a few:
a) The Hyppocratic Oath
Defibrillator's
c) Hypotherma etc, etc.

While it was unquestionably a dark period of our history, we as a people, as a species, did get something out of it from those unwilling victims. I think it's quite acceptable to trial and convict the monsters that did the crimes, but don't just dismiss the findings out of hand. You don't ever have to use them, but it might be useful at some point.

[snfonseka]

Adugan wrote...

Zaeed's mission kinda pissed me off. Either you kill a bunch of workers or you make Zaeed hate you because 20 years of his life were wasted. I bet that will have a massive effect in ME3. No pun intended.

Some of my Sheps help Zaeed, but not because his feelings, because you really can't let that kind of crime lord get away.

[snfonseka]

Bring down the sky.... anyone? I believe that paragon decision is one of the most shortsighted decision. But still my paragon Shep did that and I feel bad about it.

[Xilizhra]

Arijharn wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

It's easy to separate stuff in a game from real life, but would any of you support us re-opening Auswitz and taking the data from the gassings and finding ways to use that? Because that's what the Collector's Base looks like to me.

Modern medicine owes a lot to n a z i science experiments. Here's to name a few:
a) The Hyppocratic Oath
Defibrillator's
c) Hypotherma etc, etc.

While it was unquestionably a dark period of our history, we as a people, as a species, did get something out of it from those unwilling victims. I think it's quite acceptable to trial and convict the monsters that did the crimes, but don't just dismiss the findings out of hand. You don't ever have to use them, but it might be useful at some point.

It might be, but preferably without giving them to the people who'd happily use the findings to start doing the same things again.

[Nashiktal]

snfonseka wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Zaeed's mission kinda pissed me off. Either you kill a bunch of workers or you make Zaeed hate you because 20 years of his life were wasted. I bet that will have a massive effect in ME3. No pun intended.

Some of my Sheps help Zaeed, but not because his feelings, because you really can't let that kind of crime lord get away.

It's a lose lose either way in my opinion. Either you kill vito and lose everyone in the factory (in which case I  firmly believe the batarian guy will take over and be just as bad if not worse) or you save the factory workers and vito gets away. (in which case vito continues on being bad)

Either way its bad.