22 réponses à ce sujet

[megski]

 I noticed the first time I played DA2 and I flirted with Anders, I gained rivalry points with Bethany.  She also says something negative in MotA.  I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this.  I was also wondering if she still is grumpy toward him if Hawke isn't in a relationship with Anders.  AND I was wondering if anyone would care to discuss this or their thoughts on why or why not bethany dislikes Anders.  

[Knight of Dane]

They both have their threads with this discussion in them somewhere.

It is clear that in the beginning of the game Bethany thinks that Anders reminds her a bit about her father because of the fire he has for his cause, but aside that finds him creepy.

He doesn't hide that he thinks templars should be punished for what they are, Bethany doesn't want that, she just wants to be normal. Bethany is afraid of the circle, but mainly because she's hunted by it.

In and all it all comes down to the circle and Anders' extremes. There is no doubt that Bethany, to begin with, is a little in awe of Anders because he's the rebellic hurt person that escaped the circle. But i think that Behtany has more sympathy for his hurt sides rather than an affection for them, she clearly states that Anders goes over the edge often.
The same goes for Anders, initially he likes Bethany because he can see something of what he once was in her, but ultimately she either dies, becomes a GW or a CM, and he hates either thing. Anyhow, Bethany comes into a situation where she doesn't control her own life, nor seem any want to, that's what he dislikes the most. It's basically the same as the circle if she just willingly leave her fate ion the hands of the wardens too.

[Gervaise]

It is also interesting that after his initial aggressive outburst on seeing Bethany is a mage, Fenris and Bethany actually get on quite well and in MoA react to one another as friends would, even though they haven't spent much time together (then again may be that's why they get on).

I think Bethany's main problem with Anders is the fact that he has got a spirit inside him and that probably goes against everything her father taught her regarding mages and their relation to the spirit world. When talking to Anders, one of Hawke's options is to say that Anders "Is everything good little apprentices are taught to fear", or words to that effect and since Hawke only knowledge of what good little mages are taught is their father, any prejudices Bethany may possess probably come from him. Since Bethany wants to be normal, Anders' obviously "abnormality" probably disturbs her. Plus Hawke flirting would indicate that he is going to be around them in the future and this is not a good thing if you are trying to avoid the attention of the Templars.

[Gervaise]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention, if Bethany is in the Circle, in Act 3 if you take Anders with you to see Meredith and refuse to work for her, she blackmails you over Bethany, whom she nevertheless describes as an exemplary mage. Anders comment to Meredith is that Bethany is an example of a mage "who is a dog that has accepted the leash, whilst some of us remember we are wolves". Somehow, if this conversation got back to Bethany, I don't think she would feel that kindly disposed towards Anders.

[Asdara]

I get a different impression - from the batner in Act 1 I would say Bethany has an un-actionable crush on Anders (this doesn't mean she agrees with him on everything) and when Hawke flirts with him not okay with her. Granted, I'm somewhat bias since I'm a big sister in real life and have been in that situation before where my little sister has a crush on some guy my age who isn't looking at her, but when I went out with him, out came the dagger eyes.

[Knight of Dane]

I think you read the signs the wrong way around. Bethany is a reugee mage on the run, not a teenage girl looking for the next span of attention.

[Asdara]

... she fancies being nobility and what it would have been like to wear fun hats and dresses. I think she's got time for a crush.

[Knight of Dane]

She fancies being normal.

The fantasies about being nobility come from that she would have been that, had her father not been Malcom.
Nobility=/=Not being a mage, she doesn't bend reality.

Had she not been a mage herself i wouldn't say that she couldn't have had a crush on A, but then she would probably never even met him.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 09 novembre 2011 - 02:56 .

[megski]

Knight of Dane wrote...

They both have their threads with this discussion in them somewhere.

It is clear that in the beginning of the game Bethany thinks that Anders reminds her a bit about her father because of the fire he has for his cause, but aside that finds him creepy.

He doesn't hide that he thinks templars should be punished for what they are, Bethany doesn't want that, she just wants to be normal. Bethany is afraid of the circle, but mainly because she's hunted by it.

In and all it all comes down to the circle and Anders' extremes. There is no doubt that Bethany, to begin with, is a little in awe of Anders because he's the rebellic hurt person that escaped the circle. But i think that Behtany has more sympathy for his hurt sides rather than an affection for them, she clearly states that Anders goes over the edge often.
The same goes for Anders, initially he likes Bethany because he can see something of what he once was in her, but ultimately she either dies, becomes a GW or a CM, and he hates either thing. Anyhow, Bethany comes into a situation where she doesn't control her own life, nor seem any want to, that's what he dislikes the most. It's basically the same as the circle if she just willingly leave her fate ion the hands of the wardens too.

Yeah, I noticed in the beginning their banter was not so hostile, especially talking about Malcom.  

[megski]

Gervaise wrote...

It is also interesting that after his initial aggressive outburst on seeing Bethany is a mage, Fenris and Bethany actually get on quite well and in MoA react to one another as friends would, even though they haven't spent much time together (then again may be that's why they get on).

I think Bethany's main problem with Anders is the fact that he has got a spirit inside him and that probably goes against everything her father taught her regarding mages and their relation to the spirit world. When talking to Anders, one of Hawke's options is to say that Anders "Is everything good little apprentices are taught to fear", or words to that effect and since Hawke only knowledge of what good little mages are taught is their father, any prejudices Bethany may possess probably come from him. Since Bethany wants to be normal, Anders' obviously "abnormality" probably disturbs her. Plus Hawke flirting would indicate that he is going to be around them in the future and this is not a good thing if you are trying to avoid the attention of the Templars.

You make good points, especially about templar attention.  

[megski]

Asdara wrote...

I get a different impression - from the batner in Act 1 I would say Bethany has an un-actionable crush on Anders (this doesn't mean she agrees with him on everything) and when Hawke flirts with him not okay with her. Granted, I'm somewhat bias since I'm a big sister in real life and have been in that situation before where my little sister has a crush on some guy my age who isn't looking at her, but when I went out with him, out came the dagger eyes.

That reminds me of the movie the man in the moon.  

[megski]

I just kind of wish there was a little more interaction on the family dynamic I guess or an opportunity to see how Bethany feels about hawke dating Anders or living with her, in my case. I just noticed in mota that Anders says something about hawke when he and bethany are supposed to be rescuing her, and Bethany smarts off to him. It surprised me a little. Especially since one of my other playthroughs with Carver and Merrill doing the rescuing, Carver says, "Right, well, let's get to it. My brother will be missing you.". I also looked up some of the dialogue from Carver to Anders, and it was also pretty hostile, but that could just be because in some of it Carver was a templar. Like I said, I would really like a better look into the family dynamic for a all relationships. It could make for some interesting moments for sure. If you've ever dated some one your family hated you would know what I mean lol.

[Asdara]

Knight of Dane wrote...

She fancies being normal.

The fantasies about being nobility come from that she would have been that, had her father not been Malcom.
Nobility=/=Not being a mage, she doesn't bend reality.

Had she not been a mage herself i wouldn't say that she couldn't have had a crush on A, but then she would probably never even met him.

I don't really want to bicker - though that can be fun on a forum too - it was just my interpretation, and I said as much in my original post.  I do see Bethany as a young girl more than a "mage on the run" because she says multiple times that her family bore the burden with/for her and moved around (not just because of her alone, but also because of her father and sibling if you are mage Hawke) trying to give her as much normality as possible - scant amount that it must have been.  I think she's had to be a grown up early in many ways, but that doesn't make her incapable of having a romantic idea about a man, in my opinion - again, as I said in my original post as well, not something she would be likely to take action on, but something she might keep as a private fantasy for herself.  Big sister's (or brother's) romance treading on that would be a source of disapproval - I think.  

Furthermore, I think she's turned off by Ander's zealotry (and really, I can't blame her) from time to time, but at other times and in other banters she seems to agree with his views and even slightly warm to them after enough banters between them - the one where they both agree that Tranquility removes the ability to have a rational argument with the Templars - taking away our ability to reason she says - springs to mind.


I should probably add that I haven't yet had time to play the newest DLC portion with the new chick and all that going on, so I am mostly basing this off of the main game content from Act 1 and the 1 time I ran through Legacy with Bethany where I didn't get all the possible banters.  

[Asch Lavigne]

I think she just see Anders as confirming her fears about the Circle. And maybe giving her a few new ones. I never picked up on anything between them, although, except for the Deep Roads part of the game, they were never in my party at the same time.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:58 .

[Knight of Dane]

Well, we know from Bethany that when she crushes, it's quite obvious, as we see when you bring her and Sebastian together in both MotA and Legacy.

That kind of dreamy comments she comes up with around him never appear around Anders.

[Xilizhra]

Quite frankly, I think Bethany would work better with Anders than Sebastian. Though in no playthrough of mine will Bethany ever get near Sebastian.

[Asdara]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Well, we know from Bethany that when she crushes, it's quite obvious, as we see when you bring her and Sebastian together in both MotA and Legacy.

That kind of dreamy comments she comes up with around him never appear around Anders.

Ah, maybe that's the source of my differing observations - I tend to ignore Sebastian and I can't recall a time when I had him in the same party with Bethany, whereas I usually load Anders and Bethany and Fenris into my little walking group whenever possible.

[Knight of Dane]

Xilizhra wrote...

Quite frankly, I think Bethany would work better with Anders than Sebastian. Though in no playthrough of mine will Bethany ever get near Sebastian.

Whatever, that's off topic and we had this discussion before, you and I, in both the Seb and the Beth thread.

[megski]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Well, we know from Bethany that when she crushes, it's quite obvious, as we see when you bring her and Sebastian together in both MotA and Legacy.

That kind of dreamy comments she comes up with around him never appear around Anders.

Ohh I forgot to do that combo.  

[CrimsonZephyr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Quite frankly, I think Bethany would work better with Anders than Sebastian. Though in no playthrough of mine will Bethany ever get near Sebastian.

I always figured Anders would end up surrendering to Aveline after the battle, as he is supportive of her demand, "the law, fairly applied to all," that he turn himself in after the battle is concluded, so that's why I let him live to help in the battle. Thus, Sebastian leaves in a huff and pledges to get an army to burn down Kirkwall. To be honest, I don't think Bethany would find much to love about either man in that scenario.

[Knight of Dane]

Of course not, but when she crushes on Seb he hasn't really gone out in that fury yet.

Our hindsight is so rewarding!

[ReallyRue]

Bethany seems to be fond of Anders in Act1, because of what other people have said - he's an apostate too, and an active one, and she says he reminds her of her father (though combine that with sarcasticHawke's "they say my father was always joking and you could never get a straight answer from him" or whatever dialogue in MotA, and it's rather funny.)

After the Deep Roads though, Bethany's in the Circle, and she actually quite likes it. Or she adapts well, anyway, and finds a place for herself teaching apprentices. Anders would resent that the no longer wants to fight the Circle/templars, etc, and she would respond to that antipathy (I noticed that at one point in MotA, in the prison-break dialogue). Meanwhile, if she's a Grey Warden, then she hates it, and is bitter and miserable, and while Anders successfully escaped being a Warden (as much as one can), she's trapped in it. Combine that with her harsher personality, and obviously there would be resentment.

[ladyofdragons]

Granted I only just reached the Deep Roads in my rogue playthrough (first was mage) bit I haven't hit any banter between then that seemed negative. I got the impression Bethany had a fair amount of respect for him, maybe a touch of sympathy, which is most clearly heard in her banter with him about Justice. In fact, I think she's only one that has anything positive to say about what he attempted to do with Justice of all the companions...