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[Gervaise]

I'm sure this has been asked before and I am the first to admit I'm a litte lazy when it comes to scrolling through pages and pages of posts to find what I'm looking for.

I've just been replaying the Dalish prologue in Origins.  There we have a clan that has been in the Ferelden wilds since the time of the Fall of the Dales.  They seem very resillient and capable and have a healthy group of Halla.   When news comes to them of the possibility of a Blight and darkspawn already in the area, they make ready to move north away from the danger.  If news came to them of the fall of Ostagar, they might well assume that Mahariel was dead and the country soon to be overrun by the Blight, so I can understand them seeking to leave but not their destination.

Kirkwall lies relatively close as the crow (or dragon) flies but not if you are travelling by land.  For them to reach it overland they would have to travel across the Frostbacks, through vast areas of the Orlesian Empire and then through a greater portion of the Freemarches to get to Sundermount, all the while trying to avoid humans that they know are going to be hostile to them.   I would judge this would take much longer than the year to eighteen months that elapses between the time of the Dalish prologue and when Hawke finds them.   And surely during the journey they would find a much more hospitable location to pitch a lengthy camp than the foot of the Sundermount and also might have encountered other Dalish with whom they could link up.

The alternative is travelling by sea.  However, this would require the funds to hire a boat large enough to take all their arravells, their halla (unless already dead) as well as the clan members.   With the number of refugess seeking to leave Ferelden and people's natural antipathy towards the elves, letting them take over the best part of an entire ship when other people are waiting to leave, would be extremely unpopular and therefore would require a very large sum of money.

The third alternative is some action of Flemeth, who after all knew they were going to be there.  But apart from giving them safe passage to a port as she did with Hawke (and this at a time when she is still meant to be in the south meeting with the Warden for the first time), I cannot see how she could have accommplished this.

However, at the end of Origins, if the Warden asks for the boon of a Dalish homeland, at least one member of the clan, their foster mother, is still in Ferelden.    This would seem to suggest that there had already been a difference of opinion within the clan between those who wished to remain in Ferelden (and thus benefitted from the boon) and those who sought to leave it (with Marethari and Merrill) and thus ended up stranded miles from their releatives in an extremely unsavoury location (and possible even dead depending on how you play your Hawke).     If this latter group had left all their aravals and halla with those who remained in Ferelden, that would reduce the size of the group needing passage on the ship and the following year would have been spent trying to build new aravals (plus awaiting the delivery of halla from local Dalish that never come).   

That still doesn't explain, why Sundermount?  What was Marethari's real purpose in travelling there?   Was the whole thing because it had been requested by Flemeth because Marethari had some old, unredeemed debt to her?    Once there then the contact with the demon seems to have determined Marethari's future choices about leaving but we have no reason to think they travelled to Sundermount because of the mirror.   Clearly Marethari and Merrill knew Flemeth but the clan as a whole didn't because Mahariel shows no recognition or reverence when his group meet her.  So what was the debt that required Marethari to uproot her clan and travel them all the way to Sundermount and then remain there until such time as they received a sign from Flemeth that the debt was paid?   Does anyone know if there has been any official explanation of this?

[caradoc2000]

No official explanation, but it appears that the clan (and Marathari specifically) were waiting for Flemeth's amulet to be delivered.

And they did travel by sea (this is mentioned in the game).

[whykikyouwhy]

While we have no solid info as to why Sundermount was essential, I find it interesting that the amulet is delivered to/deposited at an altar to Mythal. So that may be of underlying significance - clearly Sundermount is an area of deep history and raw power. (And we can also speculate madly as to why Flemeth needed to be there...not that I personally have engaged in any such theorizing...)

As to the debt owed, maybe in time we'll find out. I'm not sure if has anything to do with the demon, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

[TEWR]

Gervaise wrote...


Kirkwall lies relatively close as the crow (or dragon) flies but not if you are travelling by land.  For them to reach it overland they would have to travel across the Frostbacks, through vast areas of the Orlesian Empire and then through a greater portion of the Freemarches to get to Sundermount, all the while trying to avoid humans that they know are going to be hostile to them.   I would judge this would take much longer than the year to eighteen months that elapses between the time of the Dalish prologue and when Hawke finds them.   And surely during the journey they would find a much more hospitable location to pitch a lengthy camp than the foot of the Sundermount and also might have encountered other Dalish with whom they could link up.

1) Aravels can fly when they're pulled by halla. They're called landships, so they probably serve that function of being an actual ship on land, but they're also airships.

2) They were in the Brecilian Forest. Ilen just talks about the Korcari Wilds, but they are currently in the Brecilian Forest.

3) They really only needed to go across the Waking Sea like Hawke did when Hawke took a ship from Gwaren.

However, at the end of Origins, if the Warden asks for the boon of a Dalish homeland, at least one member of the clan, their foster mother, is still in Ferelden.    This would seem to suggest that there had already been a difference of opinion within the clan between those who wished to remain in Ferelden (and thus benefitted from the boon) and those who sought to leave it (with Marethari and Merrill) and thus ended up stranded miles from their releatives in an extremely unsavoury location (and possible even dead depending on how you play your Hawke).     If this latter group had left all their aravals and halla with those who remained in Ferelden, that would reduce the size of the group needing passage on the ship and the following year would have been spent trying to build new aravals (plus awaiting the delivery of halla from local Dalish that never come).   

I'm pretty sure that she was sent as an ambassador of sorts since Marethari appears at the DE Warden's funeral, since that same woman wants to let the Keeper know of what happened.

That still doesn't explain, why Sundermount?  What was Marethari's real purpose in travelling there?   Was the whole thing because it had been requested by Flemeth because Marethari had some old, unredeemed debt to her?    Once there then the contact with the demon seems to have determined Marethari's future choices about leaving but we have no reason to think they travelled to Sundermount because of the mirror.   Clearly Marethari and Merrill knew Flemeth but the clan as a whole didn't because Mahariel shows no recognition or reverence when his group meet her.  So what was the debt that required Marethari to uproot her clan and travel them all the way to Sundermount and then remain there until such time as they received a sign from Flemeth that the debt was paid?   Does anyone know if there has been any official explanation of this?

Sundermount is an ancient magical place that was perfect for what Flemeth needed. Flemeth knows a lot about the Elves. Could there have been other places? Maybe, but we don't know. We do know that Flemeth and Marethari are tied to one another by a debt, and so Flemeth probably wanted her to go to Sundermount specifically.

Remember that Flemeth flies off into the distance. Maybe that was part of her scheming. Maybe Flemeth wanted to be close to a certain area, and Sundermount was the closest place with a magical altar.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 novembre 2011 - 04:14 .

[bleetman]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1) Aravels can fly when they're pulled by halla. They're called landships, so they probably serve that function of being an actual ship on land, but they're also airships.

Say whaaaaaat?

[TEWR]

bleetman wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1) Aravels can fly when they're pulled by halla. They're called landships, so they probably serve that function of being an actual ship on land, but they're also airships.

Say whaaaaaat?

From the codex entry on Aravels, Dalish version:


Someone once told me that humans flee when they see the sails of our aravels flying above the tops of trees. I say, good, let them flee. The humans took everything from us--our homeland, our freedom, our immortality. What's a little fear compared to all the horrors inflicted upon us? I recite the Oath of the Dales to myself each day when I sleep and when I wake: "Never again shall we submit." Never again.

The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

[jlb524]

Flemeth's evil plan. XD

Marethari made some unknown deal with Flemeth. Marethari's end of the deal was to take her clan to the base of some creepy, haunted mountain and wait for the delivery of an amulet at an unknown time in the future. Marethari promised to perform the Dalish rite of the departed on the amulet at the Mythal shrine (she got Merrill to do it for her, though...cuz she's the boss and can delegate menial tasks to her underlings).

We don't know what Marethari received in return. Maybe a hug? She seems like she needs one.

[whykikyouwhy]

Naturally, Sundermount if where a phoenix!dragon can be born.

And halla must be distant cousins of the dragon to be able to tote aravels across the skies. I wonder if the Dalish fly across Thedas and deliver presents to all the good little elven boys and girls...

[bleetman]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

From the codex entry on Aravels, Dalish version:


Someone once told me that humans flee when they see the sails of our aravels flying above the tops of trees. I say, good, let them flee. The humans took everything from us--our homeland, our freedom, our immortality. What's a little fear compared to all the horrors inflicted upon us? I recite the Oath of the Dales to myself each day when I sleep and when I wake: "Never again shall we submit." Never again.

The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

But... literally flies? I mean. It. Huh? Surely the Halla would have to run at absurd speeds to make it actually take off. Unless...

...

Pegasus Halla.

[jlb524]

They need to add an aravel piloting mini-game to DA3.

[TEWR]

bleetman wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

From the codex entry on Aravels, Dalish version:


Someone once told me that humans flee when they see the sails of our aravels flying above the tops of trees. I say, good, let them flee. The humans took everything from us--our homeland, our freedom, our immortality. What's a little fear compared to all the horrors inflicted upon us? I recite the Oath of the Dales to myself each day when I sleep and when I wake: "Never again shall we submit." Never again.

The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

But... literally flies? I mean. It. Huh? Surely the Halla would have to run at absurd speeds to make it actually take off.

Well, reindeer in the stories of Santa Claus are able to fly and they don't have wings. Perhaps it's something like the halla do something that makes the Aravel float straight up, and then they gallop across the sky.

Unless...

...

Pegasus Halla.

This must happen.

[General User]

Nevermind

Modifié par General User, 09 novembre 2011 - 04:52 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1) Aravels can fly when they're pulled by halla. They're called landships, so they probably serve that function of being an actual ship on land, but they're also airships.

Say whaaaaaat?

From the codex entry on Aravels, Dalish version:

Someone once told me that humans flee when they see the sails of our aravels flying above the tops of trees. I say, good, let them flee. The humans took everything from us--our homeland, our freedom, our immortality. What's a little fear compared to all the horrors inflicted upon us? I recite the Oath of the Dales to myself each day when I sleep and when I wake: "Never again shall we submit." Never again.

The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

That is not a literal usage of "fly".

Flags and sails are said to "fly", this does not mean literal flight.

A racecar might be said to "fly" around the track, this does not mean literal flight.

[Killjoy Cutter]

jlb524 wrote...

Flemeth's evil plan. XD

Marethari made some unknown deal with Flemeth. Marethari's end of the deal was to take her clan to the base of some creepy, haunted mountain and wait for the delivery of an amulet at an unknown time in the future. Marethari promised to perform the Dalish rite of the departed on the amulet at the Mythal shrine (she got Merrill to do it for her, though...cuz she's the boss and can delegate menial tasks to her underlings).

We don't know what Marethari received in return. Maybe a hug? She seems like she needs one.

I think the implication was that Flemeth helped the clan escape the Blight as well, but it could have been an older debt. 

Once there, something happens to their Halla, and they stay hoping to replace them via the kindness of another clan. 

Then, the demon trapped inside the cave on Sundermount deceives Merethari into taking it into herself, and under it's influence they remain there even longer.  Eventually, Master Ilen decides to leave, taking his apprentices, whatever the clan decides to do. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 09 novembre 2011 - 05:04 .

[bleetman]

Marethari isn't possessed before Merrill's act three personal quest.

Seriously. She isn't.

[TEWR]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1) Aravels can fly when they're pulled by halla. They're called landships, so they probably serve that function of being an actual ship on land, but they're also airships.

Say whaaaaaat?

From the codex entry on Aravels, Dalish version:

Someone once told me that humans flee when they see the sails of our aravels flying above the tops of trees. I say, good, let them flee. The humans took everything from us--our homeland, our freedom, our immortality. What's a little fear compared to all the horrors inflicted upon us? I recite the Oath of the Dales to myself each day when I sleep and when I wake: "Never again shall we submit." Never again.

The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

That is not a literal usage of "fly".

Flags and sails are said to "fly", this does not mean literal flight.

A racecar might be said to "fly" around the track, this does not mean literal flight.

It's literal flight when someone looks above the trees and sees a ship in the air.

[Gabey5]

slaves of flemeth

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1) Aravels can fly when they're pulled by halla. They're called landships, so they probably serve that function of being an actual ship on land, but they're also airships.

Say whaaaaaat?

From the codex entry on Aravels, Dalish version:

Someone once told me that humans flee when they see the sails of our aravels flying above the tops of trees. I say, good, let them flee. The humans took everything from us--our homeland, our freedom, our immortality. What's a little fear compared to all the horrors inflicted upon us? I recite the Oath of the Dales to myself each day when I sleep and when I wake: "Never again shall we submit." Never again.

The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

That is not a literal usage of "fly".

Flags and sails are said to "fly", this does not mean literal flight.

A racecar might be said to "fly" around the track, this does not mean literal flight.

It's literal flight when someone looks above the trees and sees a ship in the air.

They see the sails, which obviosuly would rise high into the air, and even sometimes abvoe the treetops. They don't see the actual landships. Hence why it is called a landship, and not an airship.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1) Aravels can fly when they're pulled by halla. They're called landships, so they probably serve that function of being an actual ship on land, but they're also airships.

Say whaaaaaat?

From the codex entry on Aravels, Dalish version:


Someone once told me that humans flee when they see the sails of our aravels flying above the tops of trees. I say, good, let them flee. The humans took everything from us--our homeland, our freedom, our immortality. What's a little fear compared to all the horrors inflicted upon us? I recite the Oath of the Dales to myself each day when I sleep and when I wake: "Never again shall we submit." Never again.

The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

How about you don't take everything literally. I imagine there'd be a bit more of a fuss about stuff that is able to fly, as in levitate.

And would he say fly through the forest if they actually fly?

[thats1evildude]

The landships stay on the ground, guys. Halla are not Santa's reindeer.

From Origins, we know that Merrill's clan headed north during the Blight to avoid being overtaken by the darkspawn. However, they moved near Sundermount in anticipation of meeting Hawke.

One wonders if Merrill would have ever struck her bargain with Audacity had Hawke not come to Kirkwall. Her story might have been considerably happier.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 09 novembre 2011 - 07:00 .

[bleetman]

thats1evildude wrote...

One wonders if Merrill would have ever struck her bargain with Audacity had Hawke not come to Kirkwall. Her story might have been considerably happier.

Audacity taught her blood magic before she and Hawke ever met.

[Lenimph]

bleetman wrote...

But... literally flies? I mean. It. Huh? Surely the Halla would have to run at absurd speeds to make it actually take off. Unless...

...

Pegasus Halla.

The Dalish just got 20% cooler. 

[thats1evildude]

bleetman wrote...

Audacity taught her blood magic before she and Hawke ever met.

But she would not have encountered Audacity had she not come to Sundermount. And since Marethari moved the clan to Sundermount to await Hawke's arrival, it's possible that Merrill would never have become a blood mage had Flemeth never given her amulet to Hawke.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:12 .

[LobselVith8]

thats1evildude wrote...

The landships stay on the ground, guys. Halla are not Santa's reindeer.

From Origins, we know that Merrill's clan headed north during the Blight to avoid being overtaken by the darkspawn. However, they moved near Sundermount in anticipation of meeting Hawke.

One wonders if Merrill would have ever struck her bargain with Audacity had Hawke not come to Kirkwall. Her story might have been considerably happier.

I think Merrill is considerably happy if she's romantically involved with Hawke, which wouldn't have happened had it not been for her dealings with Audacity.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Hawke could still have met her at Sundermount, had she not dealed with Audacity.