67 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

According to the cosplayers who spoke with David Gaider, the companions don't acknowledge Hawke being a blood mage because the specializations were chosen after the dialogue had been written, which is why there's only one visual acknowledgement of Hawke using blood magic (which is when apostate Hawke defeats the High Dragon and uses his blood magic abilities to kill it). Given Fenris and Anders' reactions to Merrill using blood magic, I wonder how the other companions would react to Hawke being a blood mage, had it been known among the writers that it would be one of the specializations.

Fenris and Anders are clearly against blood magic (for their own reasons), so they would likely be against Hawke's use of blood magic as an apostate, while Merrill (seems to) see it as part of the ancient culture of the elves. I would think that Isabela would be indifferent, given her friendship with Merrill, while Aveline would likely be against it. I wonder if Carver might bring it up to Leandra, or if he would keep it from her? I'd imagine his views might change, depending on whether he became a Grey Warden or a member of the Order of Templars.

I'd imagine Varric would leave it out of his stories, and he seems to be indifferent to Merrill being a blood mage for the most part so he might feel the same way towards Hawke, although I'd imagine Cassandra might make note of it during her interrogation of him at Hawke manor.

Sebastian is someone who, I'd imagine, would have a serious issue with Hawke being a blood mage, since he's very pro-Chantry. Then again, I think he would have a problem with Hawke being an apostate who was living outside of the Circles of Magi, since he seems to endorse them. Given the Chantry's views on blood magic, I wonder if he would work with a blood mage Hawke (or even an apostate Hawke).

How do you think Hawke's different companions - from his brother, Carver, to the Prince of Starkhaven, Sebastian - would have reacted to Hawke being a blood mage?

[esper]

I think that
Fenris and Anders - a conversation like the one mage Hawke has with Fenris in which you are guranteed rivalry points, but if you pick the right choices it can be reduced to five rivalry points.
Carver would properly have something more to complain about, but if he is a grey warden I imagine that he will let it go. Also he wouldn't say his, 'They are blood mages, not like you and bethany' - line.
Merrill saying in some banters, 'But Hawke is a blood mage too'. Also bonus points if she could bring it up with a romanced Fenris or Anders. She would of course be positive about it.
Varric, Aveline and Isabella. I don't know. I imagine the same way the react to mage Hawke.
Sebastian should start off by regonizing that Hawke is a mage. Big step foreward for him. But else, he shouldn't have his turn in malificars banter (with Hawke within earshot, at least).

[Gervaise]

Fenris should have made a big issue at first but possibly concede later that Hawke does not misuse it (although does using your companions health or the mind control bit count as misuse?).

Anders should have made an issue of it in the same way as with Merrill and Hawke could then respond in much the same way as she does regarding his relationship with Justice. Anders might well point out the dangers to them both if Hawke uses it very obviously in the city in front of witnesses.

Carver would depend on how much he knew about Malcolm Hawke's views on blood magic. If you accept that he was occasionally party to the instruction of his siblings, then it would probably be another instance of rivalry points. However, once Legacy had been completed, perhaps he would have to concede on the issue.

Merrill would be even more fond of Hawke and see them as a kindred spirit and of course any time anyone had a go at her, she could point to Hawke.

As Esper says, Sebastian seems to have a blind spot with regard to Hawke being a mage, let alone a blood mage. However, that also goes for the Templar order as a whole during Acts 1 and 2, so if Sebastian is meant to acknowledge this, so should they (the mage part, not the blood mage part).

If Hawke uses blood magic to defeat the Arishok, I really don't know how this could be dealt with since the entire nobility of Kirkwall will be witnesses to the fact. To be honest, I think that excuse about the dialogue having already been written was a bit of a get out because blood mage was a specialty class in Origins, so until it was comprehensively ruled out as one in DA2, the writers should have made allowance for the fact that a mage Hawke might use it.

However, given how big an issue blood magic is made and that at the end Meredith is demanding a search for blood mages in the Circle Tower, allowing Hawke to take the specialty of blood magic was ridiculous (particularly given Malcolm Hawke's views). Even more so, if blood mage Hawke sides with the Templars, uses it in front of them against Orsino, and then against Meredith, yet is made Vicount with the Templars bowing the knee. That stretched credibility enough with Hawke being just a regular mage but a blood mage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KJandrew]

Merill - Friendship points maybe
Varric and Isabella - no change
Anders and Aveline - Rivalry points
Sebastian - huge Rivalry points possibly leaving the party
Fenris - Hawke suddenly becoming a lot shorter

Modifié par KJandrew, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:55 .

[The Baconer]

Gervaise wrote...
However, given how big an issue blood magic is made and that at the end Meredith is demanding a search for blood mages in the Circle Tower, allowing Hawke to take the specialty of blood magic was ridiculous (particularly given Malcolm Hawke's views). Even more so, if blood mage Hawke sides with the Templars, uses it in front of them against Orsino, and then against Meredith, yet is made Vicount with the Templars bowing the knee. That stretched credibility enough with Hawke being just a regular mage but a blood mage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Takin' it back for Tevinter. One city-state at a time.

Killing all the mages to do it seems a bit counterproductive, though.

[KJandrew]

The Baconer wrote...

Gervaise wrote...
However, given how big an issue blood magic is made and that at the end Meredith is demanding a search for blood mages in the Circle Tower, allowing Hawke to take the specialty of blood magic was ridiculous (particularly given Malcolm Hawke's views). Even more so, if blood mage Hawke sides with the Templars, uses it in front of them against Orsino, and then against Meredith, yet is made Vicount with the Templars bowing the knee. That stretched credibility enough with Hawke being just a regular mage but a blood mage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Takin' it back for Tevinter. One city-state at a time.

Killing all the mages to do it seems a bit counterproductive, though.

No one ever accused Hawke of being particulary smart, even the normal ones

[Gervaise]

Actually if you are single mindedly in pursuit of power at any cost, it makes a lot of sense. As Anders has already pointed out, the mages in the Circle are a bunch of lap dogs anyway. By appearing to be on the side of law and the Templar order Hawke is opting for the possibility of getting out of the mess alive against the possibility of near certain death (Templars are meant to be good at neutralising mages). Then up pops the added bonus of being able to take control. No Chantry to object and the Templars in favour and available to do their bidding. Why would Hawke be bothered about other weaker mages? In fact exactly like Tevinter.

[Asch Lavigne]

Fenris would have packed his bags and left Kirkwall.

I think it depends on why Hawke would take up Blood Magic. I can't see Hawke saying "because I was bored and needed to spend a specialization point" as an excuse that would fly well in the game. Hawke had no reasons for chosing the specializations he/she did, unlike in Origins where you could express an interest in your party members talents and learn them. Or in the Blood Magic case, make a deal with the demon to do so. 

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 09 novembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[Asdara]

Yeah... the Blood Mage specialty in DA2 kinda bothered me for being really a stretch in the story context - with the companions (Fenris, Sebastian, and Anders all have serious hang ups about Blood magic - not sure they would even give it the wink for Hawke if it was Hawke doing it) with the setting, with the whole bag really.

So I just never use it. Ever.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to the cosplayers who spoke with David Gaider, the companions don't acknowledge Hawke being a blood mage because the specializations were chosen after the dialogue had been written, which is why there's only one visual acknowledgement of Hawke using blood magic (which is when apostate Hawke defeats the High Dragon and uses his blood magic abilities to kill it). Given Fenris and Anders' reactions to Merrill using blood magic, I wonder how the other companions would react to Hawke being a blood mage, had it been known among the writers that it would be one of the specializations.

1) I don't buy that tale. If the Enigma of Kirkwall was supposed to be key to this whole Mage-Templar conflict -- and not some poor excuse to try and rationalize why the mages go bonkers because of cookies -- and the whole game is focused around blood mages and Templars, then they should've known that the player should be a blood mage or a Templar and thus acknowledgement of those specializations should've been made.

2) My blood mage Hawke never got that cutscene. Is it on youtube somewhere?

Fenris and Anders are clearly against blood magic (for their own reasons), so they would likely be against Hawke's use of blood magic as an apostate, while Merrill (seems to) see it as part of the ancient culture of the elves. I would think that Isabela would be indifferent, given her friendship with Merrill, while Aveline would likely be against it. I wonder if Carver might bring it up to Leandra, or if he would keep it from her? I'd imagine his views might change, depending on whether he became a Grey Warden or a member of the Order of Templars.

I'd imagine Varric would leave it out of his stories, and he seems to be indifferent to Merrill being a blood mage for the most part so he might feel the same way towards Hawke, although I'd imagine Cassandra might make note of it during her interrogation of him at Hawke manor.

Sebastian is someone who, I'd imagine, would have a serious issue with Hawke being a blood mage, since he's very pro-Chantry. Then again, I think he would have a problem with Hawke being an apostate who was living outside of the Circles of Magi, since he seems to endorse them. Given the Chantry's views on blood magic, I wonder if he would work with a blood mage Hawke (or even an apostate Hawke).

How do you think Hawke's different companions - from his brother, Carver, to the Prince of Starkhaven, Sebastian - would have reacted to Hawke being a blood mage?

Carver and Bethany should not only have both lived so as to strengthen the Mage-Templar conflict but should wonder if Hawke being a blood mage is really a good thing -- assuming that's the first spec the player picked for their mage Hawke -- for Hawke to be doing. Hawke would then be given the option of giving their views, from being a good blood mage like Merrill so as to undermine the Chantry's stance on blood magic to just wanting to use it for the power it provides, and maybe two other sentiments.

Aveline should be against it at first, but a Friendship with her would allow her to see that Hawke -- despite being a maleficar -- isn't that bad of a person. Granted, this will bring up issues with those people who play dick Hawkes and want to friend her, but that's kinda where Rivalry would come in. Rivalry would have her see Hawke as nothing more than being one of the worst mages out there. The player could choose an option on either side of the spectrum that might have her change her views on Hawke.

Example: I friended Aveline and she sees Hawke as a good blood mage and would gladly stand by him till the end, but then I choose option A. Option A has Hawke say that if he needs to, Hawke may end up turning on Aveline to save his own hide. Aveline may now wonder if she should trust Hawke.

So ideally, the player could now pursue a friendship or Rivalry with Aveline, but not feel like the game is pigeonholing him/her to being stuck in a certain viewpoint.

Fenris and Anders should definitely oppose it. But imo, Fenris at least should be able to have his stance on blood magic softened. He should still hate the mind control and the necromancy, but he shouldn't be against all of it. Anders should try to convince Hawke to stop blood magic.

Merrill should support Hawke being a blood mage if she's friended, and call Hawke out for being a hypocrite for using blood magic and trying to get her to stop doing what she's doing on the Rivalry path.



Hmmm.... this requires much more thought from me. It needs to play into the friendship and rivalry, as well as for certain companions when they're recruited, like Fenris, Anders, and Merrill.

Obviously Aveline, Carver, and Bethany can't comment on the player being a blood mage so early in the game, but they could have their own personal quest chat things where they may remark on it.

[jamesp81]

KJandrew wrote...

Merill - Friendship points maybe
Varric and Isabella - no change
Anders and Aveline - Rivalry points
Sebastian - huge Rivalry points possibly leaving the party
Fenris - Hawke Fenris suddenly becoming a lot shorter exploding

FTFY

[The Baconer]

Gervaise wrote...
Why would Hawke be bothered about other weaker mages? In fact exactly like Tevinter.

Yeah, I know. I can't really fault them, though. Obviously Circle mages aren't going to be trained in tactics or war magic, which is a disadvantage Tevinter mages don't have to worry about.

[Sons of Horus]

I’m surprised no one brings up "Andrastian Reaver" Hawke. Worshiping her in the true form to burn the Heretics (and anyone else nearby).

[TEWR]

The Baconer wrote...

Gervaise wrote...
Why would Hawke be bothered about other weaker mages? In fact exactly like Tevinter.

Yeah, I know. I can't really fault them, though. Obviously Circle mages aren't going to be trained in tactics or war magic, which is a disadvantage Tevinter mages don't have to worry about.

Actually Circle Mages are trained in war magic and tactics. The Kirkwall Circle has refined the Force Magic school considerably because that's their primary one, at least one source says the Circle was made so they could practice combat magic and not just use their magic to light candles -- though I question the validity of this version of the Circles' origins --, and the Qunari were defeated because of the mages.

If the mages didn't practice combat magic, they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Qunari.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Actually Circle Mages are trained in war magic and tactics. The Kirkwall Circle has refined the Force Magic school considerably because that's their primary one, at least one source says the Circle was made so they could practice combat magic and not just use their magic to light candles -- though I question the validity of this version of the Circles' origins --, and the Qunari were defeated because of the mages.

If the mages didn't practice combat magic, they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Qunari.

Still get slightly annoyed when I see it worded like this. It looks like they just sent out 4 mages and the Qunari immediately dispersed.

[AlexXIV]

They should have reacted according to their personality and stance towards bloodmagic. Like everyone else. I don't know why we are discussing this, not that I mind to, but this leads nowhere but maybe concluding that the game has some critical weaknesses, we all know that already.

It should have been a different game. One that recognizes a character class properly.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 10 novembre 2011 - 12:15 .

[Quething]

Hmn. It should probably matter when you take the spec. Fenris should just up and permanently leave the first time you end a combat with him in the party after taking the spec, if he's still below 50 friend or rival. Past that he respects or likes you enough that he would just argue with you about it, and depending on what you said to him he'd get more or fewer Rivalry from it.

Likewise, other party members could give you different crap, depending. If you take it early game Aveline would just be like "WTF really Hawke? Does your mom know about this?" whereas if you take it after All that Remains she'd be more "A blood mage killed your mom. What the HELL." (And then you could explain that he wouldn't have if you'd been stronger, and you need to protect people, and she'd be all confused and in a tailspin like she always gets when Hawke calls out her inconsistent worldview).

But really to do it right, it'd be more complex than the engine could handle, because you'd need some way to track if Hawke actually used blood magic in combat in front of the companions (or... on the companions, in the case of Blood Sacrifice, which shouldn't even have been an option to take on level-up because seriously).

[bleetman]

Quething wrote...

But really to do it right, it'd be more complex than the engine could handle, because you'd need some way to track if Hawke actually used blood magic in combat in front of the companions (or... on the companions, in the case of Blood Sacrifice, which shouldn't even have been an option to take on level-up because seriously).

Indeed.

Y'know, I half wished Blood Sacrifice continued to be in game as it is now, but made companions leave permenantly if you (over?) used it. I can't really imagine why anyone would stick around with someone who constantly drained their blood right out of their body in a giant forboding mist, no matter how great they were at other things.

Modifié par bleetman, 10 novembre 2011 - 01:54 .

[Nyreen]

I think Hawke and Merrill would throw a wrist-slitting party and gossip about how cute desire demons are.

[The Baconer]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Actually Circle Mages are trained in war magic and tactics. The Kirkwall Circle has refined the Force Magic school considerably because that's their primary one, at least one source says the Circle was made so they could practice combat magic and not just use their magic to light candles -- though I question the validity of this version of the Circles' origins --, and the Qunari were defeated because of the mages.

If the mages didn't practice combat magic, they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Qunari.

I question the depth of the 'war magic' and 'tactics' they're apparently teaching at the Circles. The Gallows battle cutscene shows that the mages quite clearly didn't understand an iota of either.

Modifié par The Baconer, 10 novembre 2011 - 05:34 .

[ReallyRue]

I'd think Anders and especially Fenris would treat Hawke just as badly as Merrill if s/he was a blood mage. Anders would constantly try to convince Hawke to give it up, and not be as eager for him/her to be the leader of the mage rebellion or whatever. Fenris would simply treat Hawke as an abomination, and I can't see how a romance would be possible.

I think Carver would disapprove, seeing as it would give the templars more cause to come after them, draw attention, etc. And the whole dabbling-with-demons thing would put the family more at risk from Hawke him/herself.

I don't think Isabela or Varric would really care.

I think Aveline would strongly disapprove, but I don't think she would lecture Hawke as strongly or as frequently as Anders/Fenris, unless she disapproved of the *way* Hawke was using the blood magic.

Sebastian would probably try and convince Hawke to give it up a couple of times and worry about them, but I don't think he'd press it too much. He doesn't seem like a preachy/confrontational kind of guy. In all his dialogues with Merrill he's polite and civil, even after the Marethari stuff. I doubt he would pursue a romance with a blood mage Hawke either.

And Merrill herself wouldn't have any problem, and might actively approve of Hawke's open-mindedness, though if Hawke used the magic for darker purposes (like blood sacrifices, obviously) she'd also disapprove.

[SkittlesKat96]

Fenris - He would despise and dislike you for it. And he would probably make a derogatory comment or two about Mages and magic.

Aveline - I'm not totally sure what her reaction would be, I don't think she would approve of your use of blood magic that much.

Merril - She would have no negative thoughts towards your use of blood magic, she would probably even support it.

Varric - I don't think he would care that much but I think he would be a bit distrustful of it. He would probably say something like 'I hope you know what you're doing Hawke...'

Anders - If I recall Anders thinks blood magic is bad but I could be wrong, in fact I think I might be wrong. If I'm right though then I think he would criticize you or ask you why you use blood magic or try and tell you its wrong or something.

Sebastian - Considering he is very devoted to the Maker and the Chantry I think he would very much dislike your use of blood magic, not sure what his exact reaction would be though.

Bethany - I'm not really sure. Judging by how she acts if you side with the Templars and she sees what happened to Orsino I think she realizes the dangers of blood magic and doesn't think its a good idea/a good thing.

Carver - He would dislike it but considering your his brother I think he wouldn't dare try and stop you or do anything about it or criticize you too much for it.

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 11 novembre 2011 - 08:09 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Actually now that you mention it, at least with DA2 we have a good reason nobody mentions a blood mage Hawke... Varric is telling this story, and if he didn't mention it to Cassandra, then... we don't hear of it.  At least that's a better explanation in character wise than the "Let's just ignore it" that DAO had. (You can find on YouTube videos of a scene added back in where Wynne confronts a Blood Mage Warden durng the Circle quest... seems it was removed because if you make the wrong choices, you end up fighting and killing Wynne, Irving, and Gregaoir which means no siding with either one, which broke the game)  As for what Gaider said at conventions, sounds fishy to me unless they'd originally not planned to let Hawke be a blood mage.. considering blood magic was a specialization in DAO, why wouldn't it be in DA2, unless they made that active decision not to allow it for Hawke?

[frostajulie]

I would hope that Anders would give you rivalry points and you could have a "pot meet kettle" conversation

Merrill would give you friendly points and have a conversation that justifies it with you and you can respond with your typical hawke choices- nice hawke, charm or sarcasm, and kick your head in with a magic metal boot.

Fenris- If you use blood magic around him a cutscene should trigger where you have to kill him or let him leave the group and not be able to play with him anymore. He can learn to love a mage, he can even side with mages at the end but I firmly believe he would never trust that what he felt was real if he found out he felt it for a blood mage and if he is not in a relationship he would want to get as far from you as possible because you were just Danarius all over again, at the very least blood mage would end any chance of romancing him.

Aveline has her own code based on your relationship with her I believe she would base her reaction on who you were and not what you were.

Isabella could comment how hot you were and do you in an alley or something. I never keep her beyond act 2 anyway so I don't really care.

Varric should do what he always should do, throw you over his shoulder toss you on his bed and ravage you with his fine dwarven love craft...

Sebastien would leave your party but keep your secret

Your siblings should always give you rivalry points but based on your relationship with them lecture you (carver) or plead with you to be careful (Bethany)

[TEWR]

The Baconer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Actually Circle Mages are trained in war magic and tactics. The Kirkwall Circle has refined the Force Magic school considerably because that's their primary one, at least one source says the Circle was made so they could practice combat magic and not just use their magic to light candles -- though I question the validity of this version of the Circles' origins --, and the Qunari were defeated because of the mages.

If the mages didn't practice combat magic, they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Qunari.

I question the depth of the 'war magic' and 'tactics' they're apparently teaching at the Circles. The Gallows battle cutscene shows that the mages quite clearly didn't understand an iota of either.

I see that as Bioware wanting a "super badass" RoA cutscene.

Frankly, it made no sense since Orsino gathered up all of his mages and gave a speech to them. But you are able to see a mage take out a Templar by hurling a ball of magical energy into his back and launching him into a statue, while pre-Harvestino Orsino is able to use his magic to take down a few Templars.

Granted, the mages didn't make use of the funnel or launching fireballs, firestorms, and tempests at the Templar ships, but I think that's a fault to Bioware and not the mages.

Bioware didn't handle tactics for the Arishok's near-conquest of the city very well either.