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[Killjoy Cutter]

Not sure I trust a demon. (And actually, I've taken a blood-mage hawke through that mission, and Allure hasn't said anything like that...)

There's no event anywhere in DA2 that shows how Hawke learns any of the specializations for any of the classes. It's entirely a game mechanic in DA2.

[EmperorSahlertz]

She says so if you are listening to her offers.

[esper]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It is implied that Hawke learns it through a deal with a demon, since the demon Allue from Sebastian's act2 quest says: "I can feel the touch of my kin already upon you" (or something to that effect), if you bring a Blood Mage Hawke.

I think that Allure is talking about Torpor (or other in game demons).
Reason: my blood mage Hawke who told Torpor go to the Void didn't get that convo with Allure.
My elemental Hawke who never touced bloodmagic got that convo. That Hawke attempted to trick Torpor which meant that she temporality had to accept his deal. If you wait with killing Torpor he still gets to say: Deal signed or something liket that and and flash all red, hinting that some contract has been made. (That Hawke can break it is apperently not important ito Allure)
I don't know if the hunger demon in the Deep Roads is factured into it as well as I have never tried to make a deal with it yet.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Hm could be Topor, though I am certain I had not yet completed that quest in my playthroughs.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Something that Bioware seem to have forgotten between DA:O and DA2 -- bloodmagic and demonology are not the same thing.

[Herr Uhl]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Something that Bioware seem to have forgotten between DA:O and DA2 -- bloodmagic and demonology are not the same thing.

What?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Something that Bioware seem to have forgotten between DA:O and DA2 -- bloodmagic and demonology are not the same thing.

What?

There are mages (and non-mages) in DA:O who are not blood mages, and make pacts with demons.

There are blood mages in DA:O who have nothing to do with demons. 


The, in DA2, the two are practically treated as one (unless of course you're blood-mage Hawke).

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It is implied that Hawke learns it through a deal with a demon, since the demon Allue from Sebastian's act2 quest says: "I can feel the touch of my kin already upon you" (or something to that effect), if you bring a Blood Mage Hawke.

I've taken my blood mage Hawkes through Repentance and never gotten that, and I even did a playthrough where I chose every single option.

Through reloading of course, but still. I haven't heard her mention it.

[Herr Uhl]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

There are mages (and non-mages) in DA:O who are not blood mages, and make pacts with demons.

Aside from Connor, who?

There are blood mages in DA:O who have nothing to do with demons.

And aside from Jowan, who are these blood mages? I thought the guy from Starkhaven filled the Jowan quota.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

There are mages (and non-mages) in DA:O who are not blood mages, and make pacts with demons.

Aside from Connor, who?

There are blood mages in DA:O who have nothing to do with demons.

And aside from Jowan, who are these blood mages? I thought the guy from Starkhaven filled the Jowan quota.

Those two are enough, along with the codex entries, to make it clear that blood mages don't need demons, and that dealing with demons doesn't take blood magic. 

Plus any PC or party mage, once you've unlocked the blood magic specialization, can gain it without even seeing a single demon.

Never mind that spells that never had anything to do with blood magic in DA:O, suddenly became part of the super scarey secret sauce in DA2 -- for example, life drain, animate dead, etc. 

[Veloric Wu]

Fenris(if he's Hawke's LI):

"I hate you!!!!!!!!
/hug"

[LobselVith8]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Not sure I trust a demon. (And actually, I've taken a blood-mage hawke through that mission, and Allure hasn't said anything like that...) 

Allure never said that to my blood mage Hawke, either. I believe Allure says that if Hawke made a deal for Feynriel's soul with Topor.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

There's no event anywhere in DA2 that shows how Hawke learns any of the specializations for any of the classes. It's entirely a game mechanic in DA2. 

I believe there's only one acknowledgement for two of the mage specializations, which makes sense since Gaider told the cosplayer that the dialogue was written prior to the specializations being chosen by the developers, but it does leave out a lot of worthwhile character moments that could have been had otherwise. During Act II, Merrill asks Hawke to heal Pol if he is a Spirit Healer. This happened for me when my apostate Hawke had the specialization for my canon run, and I know that it didn't happen during my first run when I wasn't Spirit Healer. In Act III, Hawke uses blood magic in the cutscene where he kills the High Dragon (which happens as long as he is a Blood Mage, even if the specialization isn't active at the time). It's very minimal acknowlegement, really.

[Pygmalin]

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to the cosplayers who spoke with David Gaider, the companions don't acknowledge Hawke being a blood mage because the specializations were chosen after the dialogue had been written, which is why there's only one visual acknowledgement of Hawke using blood magic (which is when apostate Hawke defeats the High Dragon and uses his blood magic abilities to kill it). Given Fenris and Anders' reactions to Merrill using blood magic, I wonder how the other companions would react to Hawke being a blood mage, had it been known among the writers that it would be one of the specializations.

Fenris and Anders are clearly against blood magic (for their own reasons), so they would likely be against Hawke's use of blood magic as an apostate, while Merrill (seems to) see it as part of the ancient culture of the elves. I would think that Isabela would be indifferent, given her friendship with Merrill, while Aveline would likely be against it. I wonder if Carver might bring it up to Leandra, or if he would keep it from her? I'd imagine his views might change, depending on whether he became a Grey Warden or a member of the Order of Templars.


How do you think Hawke's different companions - from his brother, Carver, to the Prince of Starkhaven, Sebastian - would have reacted to Hawke being a blood mage?

To be honest here, they should have done a better job with ALL reaction of Hawke Mage. Everyone ignores it, blood mage or not Hawke is a "running loose" apostate. Hawke helps Cullen at one point and there is NO reaction from him.  Short of Hawke running up to a Templar screaming I am a mage come and get me, Not a single char reacts. Sure there is ONE comment from Fenris and ONE comment from Meridith, maybe some your an apostate from meridth (sorry for the SP's here)   Fenris should NEVER have romanced a Mage, Period. And there should have been Hawke being sent to the Gallows, or Harrowing in Act 1. Period. This was a poor story choice IMO.  In ACT1 Hawke is no different then all the other gutter mages, and that should have been better addressed. but again IMO.

[esper]

Pygmalin wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to the cosplayers who spoke with David Gaider, the companions don't acknowledge Hawke being a blood mage because the specializations were chosen after the dialogue had been written, which is why there's only one visual acknowledgement of Hawke using blood magic (which is when apostate Hawke defeats the High Dragon and uses his blood magic abilities to kill it). Given Fenris and Anders' reactions to Merrill using blood magic, I wonder how the other companions would react to Hawke being a blood mage, had it been known among the writers that it would be one of the specializations.

Fenris and Anders are clearly against blood magic (for their own reasons), so they would likely be against Hawke's use of blood magic as an apostate, while Merrill (seems to) see it as part of the ancient culture of the elves. I would think that Isabela would be indifferent, given her friendship with Merrill, while Aveline would likely be against it. I wonder if Carver might bring it up to Leandra, or if he would keep it from her? I'd imagine his views might change, depending on whether he became a Grey Warden or a member of the Order of Templars.


How do you think Hawke's different companions - from his brother, Carver, to the Prince of Starkhaven, Sebastian - would have reacted to Hawke being a blood mage?

To be honest here, they should have done a better job with ALL reaction of Hawke Mage. Everyone ignores it, blood mage or not Hawke is a "running loose" apostate. Hawke helps Cullen at one point and there is NO reaction from him.  Short of Hawke running up to a Templar screaming I am a mage come and get me, Not a single char reacts. Sure there is ONE comment from Fenris and ONE comment from Meridith, maybe some your an apostate from meridth (sorry for the SP's here)   Fenris should NEVER have romanced a Mage, Period. And there should have been Hawke being sent to the Gallows, or Harrowing in Act 1. Period. This was a poor story choice IMO.  In ACT1 Hawke is no different then all the other gutter mages, and that should have been better addressed. but again IMO.

No that should not have been a harrowing or sent to the Gallows in act 1 since Hawke is never caught and Hawke also always goes on the Deep Road expedition and thus always is proitected by the rest of the group. There should however have been a sense of getting chased by templars and a reaction from Cullen. Perhaps mage Hawke simply shouldn't do that quest which involves Cullen. Fenris does have a lot of comment for mage Hawke wish he switched to comment about Bethany if you isn't a mage. Perhaps Fenris should have auto-rivalled mage Hawke no matter what. Also Sebastian should have reacted. You also get more than one comment from Meridith, but that could have been done better.

To creat a sense of being chased by Templars, they could simply have templars randomly ambushing your party one time or two times in act 1 when either mage Hawke or Bethany or another mage member is in the group. That would give you the sense of templars hunting you which is what the game claims is happining (remember that you goes in the Deep Road expedition to protect Hawke/Bethany)

[Gervaise]

There is nothing wrong with Fenris romancing a mage provided that mage does demonstrate some responsibility with their magic and have nothing to do with demons or blood magic, so justifying his comment that they are a strong (minded) mage. With a mage the 3 year gap between first sexual encounter and Fenris finally admitting his feelings makes sense. However, what doesn't add up is if Hawke is a blood mage.

What also does not make sense is a Hawke mage becoming Vicount. That cut scene at the end with the Templars bowing down to Hawke just didn't seem possible. I did have visions of Fenris having a mental breakdown because it looked so much like he described Tevinter, where the Templars serve the Magisters and do their will. Now I've never played a blood mage but seeing as how Meredith was so determined to hunt out the blood mages within the Circle and Cullen and other loyalist Templars regarded them in the same way as she did, the idea that they could bow down to a blood mage, if they have openly used their power to defeat Meredith in front of them, is so ridiculous, it seems amazing that the writers did not prevent it from happening.

[Pygmalin]

@Esper, exactly! Some feeling of being chased or ambushes would have been good, I used harrowing or a stint in the gallows as an example, but anything would have been better than all right out ignoring the fact that Hawke is an apostate, even the reason Mage Hawke goes to the deep roads is to escape them, something anything.

@Gervaise But that is exactly why its silly, you can be a blood mage, Use blood magic to Help a templar and nothing not even a bat of an eye. Hawke doesn't have to be responsible with magic At all. Its completly ignored. You can kill Meradith (sp) using blood magic and they still bow to Hawke. Fenris still Romances the blood mage. I get the 3 year Fenis Romance gap, regardless of the mage or not, I mean he is still figuring out were he fits in a free world, but it should have been harder for a Romance and more accountablity. To a story stand point it makes no sense. It makes no sense that mage Hawke could be viscount anyways. ( someone said it was the difference between Fereldan and Kirkwall, but mages have it worse in Kirkwall...so still makes no sense) So yes I am in agreement with you, this part of the story just confused me. Though all of DA2 confused me a bit from a story stand point.

[Realmzmaster]

Pygmalin wrote...

@Esper, exactly! Some feeling of being chased or ambushes would have been good, I used harrowing or a stint in the gallows as an example, but anything would have been better than all right out ignoring the fact that Hawke is an apostate, even the reason Mage Hawke goes to the deep roads is to escape them, something anything.

@Gervaise But that is exactly why its silly, you can be a blood mage, Use blood magic to Help a templar and nothing not even a bat of an eye. Hawke doesn't have to be responsible with magic At all. Its completly ignored. You can kill Meradith (sp) using blood magic and they still bow to Hawke. Fenris still Romances the blood mage. I get the 3 year Fenis Romance gap, regardless of the mage or not, I mean he is still figuring out were he fits in a free world, but it should have been harder for a Romance and more accountablity. To a story stand point it makes no sense. It makes no sense that mage Hawke could be viscount anyways. ( someone said it was the difference between Fereldan and Kirkwall, but mages have it worse in Kirkwall...so still makes no sense) So yes I am in agreement with you, this part of the story just confused me. Though all of DA2 confused me a bit from a story stand point.

Hawke is ignored if he/she is simply a mage period in Kirkwall. It does not matter blood or otherwise. The game would need a completely different story line for the mage class.  Hawke as a mage is plot shielded. Otherwise Mage Hawke would be fighting every templar in the city especially if using magic in public. All the party mages are plot shielded. Hawke would be arrested by the guards the minute Hawke used magic in the gallows when they reach Kirkwall. The story would have to smuggle a mage Hawke into the city and live in DarkTown like Anders or write the story so Hawke would live outside of the city proper .

The story line is fine for the warrior and rogue. It falls apart with the mage.Bioware could have limited the classes to warrior and rogue, but that would not go over well.

I am all for a different story line for the mage, but Bioware did not allow itself the time to do it. So some of the dialogue if you are a mage Hawke is out of place.

[esper]

Pygmalin wrote...

@Esper, exactly! Some feeling of being chased or ambushes would have been good, I used harrowing or a stint in the gallows as an example, but anything would have been better than all right out ignoring the fact that Hawke is an apostate, even the reason Mage Hawke goes to the deep roads is to escape them, something anything.

@Gervaise But that is exactly why its silly, you can be a blood mage, Use blood magic to Help a templar and nothing not even a bat of an eye. Hawke doesn't have to be responsible with magic At all. Its completly ignored. You can kill Meradith (sp) using blood magic and they still bow to Hawke. Fenris still Romances the blood mage. I get the 3 year Fenis Romance gap, regardless of the mage or not, I mean he is still figuring out were he fits in a free world, but it should have been harder for a Romance and more accountablity. To a story stand point it makes no sense. It makes no sense that mage Hawke could be viscount anyways. ( someone said it was the difference between Fereldan and Kirkwall, but mages have it worse in Kirkwall...so still makes no sense) So yes I am in agreement with you, this part of the story just confused me. Though all of DA2 confused me a bit from a story stand point.

I can forgive a hyperbole it is just hard to tell her on the BSN.  The rumor goes that orignally there was a plan to have the templars ambush you 1 time in act 1 if either Bethany or mage Hawke was in the party, but it was cut because it meant that everyone apperently always would take Bethany with them into the Deep Roads - which I think is the poorest and foolish excuse ever. I wanted that ambush, it would really be better because in act 2 you are excused by your money and the favours randomly important people owes you. Also I was ambushed by templars in act 2, but not because I was a mage (Because I killed that templar in act 1).

As a person who has completed the stories with only mages so far I can say that there are two really large weak points in the narrative Cullen and Sebastian. Neither regonize that you are a mage which is really, really bad, espically Sebastian who is a bloody companion. At least Meridith had the decency to threat me with the Gallows once.

But back to blood magic. I want acknowlegdement. I am willing to have the main character be allowed to take only 1 specialization if it means that that specialization would be regonized.