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Concussive shot or slam?


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#1
Sarah_SR2

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I'm playing a soldier and currently have slam as my bonus power. I used it on my infiltrator playthrough and it's great against hordes of husks, launches enemies off the map like throw, and has a very fast cool down. It's quite aggressive and doesn't interfere too badly with other abilities because of the short cool down. The trouble is I now have concussive shot and I can't decide what to do with it. Slam only work on unprotected enemies so on hardcore I have to get the protection off before using slam. But CS does damage against barriers but deals less damage and has a longer cool down. I don't envisage spending loads of points in either but can't decide if I should just keep one and drop the other, use both with less skill points or pick a different bonus power.

My build is likely to be along the lines of:

Heightened Adrenaline Rush - for the 70% slowdown and 140% damage boost.
Passive Commando - for damage boost and storm speed.
Inferno Ammo - 'cause it's ace!
Squad Disruptor Ammo.
Cryo Ammo ?
Slam ?
Concussive Shot ?

I do love the Geth pulse rifle and ran amok with it last time out. So I may well upgrade the shotgun on the collector ship because the viper sniper rifle is really good and I probably wouldn't use the widow.

Anyway that's it, any opinions of course are very welcome :o)

#2
CoffeeHolic93

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 This is a run of the suicide mission. At 1:30 you will see a Collector being shattered by Concussive Shot. 

This is a video of Haestrom. At 11:40 I use Slam to stagger a Geth so I can rush in for the kill.

This is what it boils down to;

Concussive Shot is...Not a great power, HOWEVER it can shatter enemies which is fun to watch.

Slam is...Great. Midget Cooldown, CC, Stagger on protected enemies, Looks great, Sounds great, and Shepard gets all glowy. 

If you go purist Concussive Shot will suffice - CC is still CC. I'd probably go for Slam between the two unless I'm playing for giggles (which is just as important, mind you. ^_^)

[Shameless Plug] Both of the clips mentioned are in my homage to the claymore video. :whistle: [/shameless plug]


Edit: A common build is
4 - Squad Disruptor
4 - Inferno Ammo
4 - Squad Cryo
4 - A rush
4 - Passive

This leaves one point for either Slam or CS-

My personal build leaves Disruptor at 2 since I don't find it useful at all. Three points in Concussive Shot (Someone will shoot me for this. :P) lets you reliably shatter a frozen enemy. Which is pretty to look at.

Modifié par Mi-Chan, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:03 .


#3
Sarah_SR2

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@mi-chan, I saw one of your shotgun soldier vids a few weeks ago and decided I'd quite like a go at that sort of style :o) That's why I'll probably go for the shotgun on the collector ship. I have been using the shotgun a little more of late but I'm not great with it yet and tend to die a lot :o( I need a lot of practice but I've finished the game 3 times and have nothing to prove and am playing purely for fun.

But anyway, I think I'll stick with slam as you're thinking along the same lines as me and it does suit my playstyle. Certainly worth it for that blue glowy look too! :o)

#4
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

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The normal cooldown for slam is three seconds.

THREE SECONDS. That's without any upgrades to cooldowns. Try to beat that. Just TRY to.

Modifié par EternalAmbiguity, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:19 .


#5
CoffeeHolic93

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Sarah_SR2 wrote...

@mi-chan, I saw one of your shotgun soldier vids a few weeks ago and decided I'd quite like a go at that sort of style :o) That's why I'll probably go for the shotgun on the collector ship. I have been using the shotgun a little more of late but I'm not great with it yet and tend to die a lot :o( I need a lot of practice but I've finished the game 3 times and have nothing to prove and am playing purely for fun.

But anyway, I think I'll stick with slam as you're thinking along the same lines as me and it does suit my playstyle. Certainly worth it for that blue glowy look too! :o)


Kasumi's Flashbang and a squadmate with an Area Stagger (Pull field, Incineration, What have you) will ease the transition. :wizard:


EternalAmbiguity wrote...

The normal cooldown for slam is three seconds.

THREE SECONDS. That's without any upgrades to cooldowns. Try to beat that. Just TRY to.


...
Neural Shockwave.

Mission accomplished? :whistle:

Modifié par Mi-Chan, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:25 .


#6
RedCaesar97

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Concussive Shot is like a spork. A spork is a combination spoon and fork, but does the job of neither. Concussive Shot is a combination of Throw and Warp but does the job of neither.

On Insanity, no matter how much power damage you have (Commando + armor), Concussive Shot will not completely strip even the weakest of barriers. The force of Heavy Concussive Shot is better than rank 1 Throw but worse than rank 2 Throw. Concussive Shot can shatter frozen enemies. Concussive Shot will not launch Pulled enemies with much force, unlike Throw.

I recommend sticking with Slam for all the reasons Mi-Chan mentions. Check out his Claymore Soldier videos to see how he uses Slam on his Soldier.

I have experimented with a Soldier that uses both Slam and Concussive Shot. Note that this video is one of the first videos I posted and the quality is not that great.

I should also mention that biotics and cryo do not always work well together: biotics will fail on enemies that are not yet completely frozen. And enemies that are being frozen can cancel out biotic effects, such as a pulled enemy dropping out of pull early. 

#7
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

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Mi-Chan wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

The normal cooldown for slam is three seconds.

THREE SECONDS. That's without any upgrades to cooldowns. Try to beat that. Just TRY to.


...
Neural Shockwave.

Mission accomplished? :whistle:


What's the cooldown?

#8
CoffeeHolic93

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Mi-Chan wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

The normal cooldown for slam is three seconds.

THREE SECONDS. That's without any upgrades to cooldowns. Try to beat that. Just TRY to.


...
Neural Shockwave.

Mission accomplished? :whistle:


What's the cooldown?


Three seconds. Then comes the cooldown upgrades.

#9
CoffeeHolic93

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RedCaesar97 wrote...

Concussive Shot is like a spork. A spork is a combination spoon and fork, but does the job of neither. Concussive Shot is a combination of Throw and Warp but does the job of neither.

On Insanity, no matter how much power damage you have (Commando + armor), Concussive Shot will not completely strip even the weakest of barriers. The force of Heavy Concussive Shot is better than rank 1 Throw but worse than rank 2 Throw. Concussive Shot can shatter frozen enemies. Concussive Shot will not launch Pulled enemies with much force, unlike Throw.

I recommend sticking with Slam for all the reasons Mi-Chan mentions. Check out his Claymore Soldier videos to see how he uses Slam on his Soldier.

I have experimented with a Soldier that uses both Slam and Concussive Shot. Note that this video is one of the first videos I posted and the quality is not that great.

I should also mention that biotics and cryo do not always work well together: biotics will fail on enemies that are not yet completely frozen. And enemies that are being frozen can cancel out biotic effects, such as a pulled enemy dropping out of pull early. 


Well written and completely true. If you're expecting Carnage from the first game you will be sorely dissapointed. If you're expecting a for-fun power (which a game is all about) then Concussive Shot can be a lot of fun as a finisher.

2 - Disruptor
4 - Inferno
4 - Squad Cryo
4 - Arush
3 - Concussive
4 - Passive
1 - Slam

Best of both worlds and what I used during the suicide mission.

#10
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Mi-Chan wrote...

Neural Shockwave.

I came here to post exactly this.

#11
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

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Mi-Chan wrote...

Three seconds. Then comes the cooldown upgrades.


Well technically they're the same then.

#12
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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Mi-Chan wrote...

Three seconds. Then comes the cooldown upgrades.


Well technically they're the same then.

Neural Shockwave is AOE. :devil:

#13
RedCaesar97

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Mi-Chan wrote...

Three seconds. Then comes the cooldown upgrades.


Well technically they're the same then.

Neural Shockwave is AOE. :devil:


Not to mention that the duration of Neural Shock is 5 seconds at rank 1,  unlike Slam that gains a duration only for the Crippling Slam evolution (8 seconds). But Neural Shock works only on organics, while Slam works on both organics and synthetics.

#14
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Yep, I can use Slam on mechs.

#15
Asch Lavigne

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Slam for the win. I take it as my bonus power on every playthrough.

#16
ryoldschool

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Sarah_sr2, thanks for a fresh question. Ok, so I see where this is going. Slam can also set up warp bombs where neural shock is also very effective plus has AOE - RedCaesar97 has plenty of videos using neural shock on shotgun soldier, and Mi-Chan has a bunch of also great videos using slam. You can't go wrong with either. I used stasis on my soldier, but I liked the gameplay options that slam and neural shock gave those guys.

Concussive shot is a fun power - to be used when you are fooling around. I used the heck out of it in my Revenant run I just completed. As a damage power its pitiful ( fully upgraded it does almost nothing to Vasir's barrier ), and does not benefit from upgrades, etc. It gives some cool shattering effects if you are using cryo ammo.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 09 novembre 2011 - 10:24 .


#17
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You don't need Neural Shock to work on synthetics, when you're playing a class that has Squad Disruptor Ammo. It's the first, last, and ultimate anti-synthetic power, except Agent/Mechanic Shepard's Improved AI Hacking.

If you're using Slam on synthetics instead of killing them with your big Disruptor Ammo loaded guns, you're deliberately slowing down the killing to have more fun. Personally I find Neural Shock to be at least as fun as Slam, if not more.

#18
capn233

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I never liked mixing abilities like that, although I did try slam. It is a good power because of short cooldown. I don't like the powers for stagger ability on a soldier since bullets also stagger. Did like slam on my Vanguard though (especially early game) because it takes a while to unlock Pull. Replacing pull is somewhat of a different discussion though.

At any rate... typically I maxed AR to Hardened, Passive to whichever depending on stage of the game, disruptor to squad, usually took tungsten which means no slam, and whatever remaining pts in CS. If you max inferno instead of taking an ammo power that means you should have the rest in Slam or CS I suppose.

It has been a while since I played Soldier, since I went through all the other classes. If I were to do it again, I would probably try out flashbang (in keeping with no biotic or tech powers) for the whole game. Either that or just go for Cryo for fun. I haven't gotten shotgun training for the soldier any time I played it. Mostly Revenant (5) and one time Widow.

To more directly answer the question, I don't really see slam and concussive shot competing for the same job all that much since CS at least has decent damage to barriers because of the multiplier. Your guns under AR are your real damage dealers as a Soldier though. I suppose either one can be an "oh s***" button for the husk or whatever that gets too close. But the Revenant or Eviscerator, etc work too. If I was using slam or cs purely against something like husks, slam probably wins since the cooldown is shorter. You could strip the armor then hit slam and then move to the next and have slam reset in half the time as cs. But spamming AR might beat either one of those strategies...

Modifié par capn233, 10 novembre 2011 - 07:23 .


#19
CoffeeHolic93

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capn233 wrote...

I never liked mixing abilities like that, although I did try slam. It is a good power because of short cooldown. I don't like the powers for stagger ability on a soldier since bullets also stagger. Did like slam on my Vanguard though (especially early game) because it takes a while to unlock Pull. Replacing pull is somewhat of a different discussion though.

At any rate... typically I maxed AR to Hardened, Passive to whichever depending on stage of the game, disruptor to squad, usually took tungsten which means no slam, and whatever remaining pts in CS. If you max inferno instead of taking an ammo power that means you should have the rest in Slam or CS I suppose.

It has been a while since I played Soldier, since I went through all the other classes. If I were to do it again, I would probably try out flashbang (in keeping with no biotic or tech powers) for the whole game. Either that or just go for Cryo for fun. I haven't gotten shotgun training for the soldier any time I played it. Mostly Revenant (5) and one time Widow.

To more directly answer the question, I don't really see slam and concussive shot competing for the same job all that much since CS at least has decent damage to barriers because of the multiplier. Your guns under AR are your real damage dealers as a Soldier though. I suppose either one can be an "oh s***" button for the husk or whatever that gets too close. But the Revenant or Eviscerator, etc work too. If I was using slam or cs purely against something like husks, slam probably wins since the cooldown is shorter. You could strip the armor then hit slam and then move to the next and have slam reset in half the time as cs. But spamming AR might beat either one of those strategies...


1: May I ask why you went Tungsten? Inferno ammo only deals 10% less damage on paper, and even less in game (it takes the same amount of bullets to kill regular enemies) and it doesn't give you the AOE panic effect that makes Inferno ammo so good.

2: I would never actively use Concussive Shot as a damage dealing ability. Even shotgun sniping under A-rush will deal more damage (and if you break shields you can proc Inferno/Cryo/Disruptor Ammo). As far as I'm concerned CS only draw is the Crowd Control, which is moderate, the Shatter which is fairly good and if you miss Carnage which will leave you dissapointed.:?

It is just my opinion though, there's really no need to go spreading it around. 


Modifié par Mi-Chan, 10 novembre 2011 - 08:03 .


#20
capn233

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Mi-Chan wrote...

1: May I ask why you went Tungsten? Inferno ammo only deals 10% less damage on paper, and even less in game (it takes the same amount of bullets to kill regular enemies) and it doesn't give you the AOE panic effect that makes Inferno ammo so good.

I want to say "no" to the first question since everyone always asks :)

Soldier was the first class I played, since it was what I was in ME and I decided to continue that.  So I did use inferno ammo my first run through (which was Hardcore not Insanity) because I had no bonus powers at the time.

Early game it is nice to have AP right away instead of investing a bunch of points to unlock incendiary.  Additionally, you need to think about what weapons you are going to predominantly use, specifically their ability to create the "ammo effects" and rate of fire, as well as enemies that you are shooting.  If you have high damage slow rate of fire weapons the difference remains small.   With rapid fire weapons, the difference starts to become more noticeable.  I usually used the Revenant, or whatever assault rifle I had. 

As far as the CC effect, it is really not as game changing on insanity as everyone wants to make out.  Most effects are weakened, and especially when you are dealing with the higher ROF weapons that don't create the effects as often it is less and less beneficial.  The Viper works pretty well with inferno, but I just wasn't all that impressed with it on the Revenant.

The last factors are maybe the most important... I didn't want tech or biotic powers on my soldiers, and I didn't want to spend cooldowns on powers other than adrenaline rush.  That meant basically an ammo power, which I could turn on once.  The other thing is that it is used in conjunction with squad disruptor, which I equip on the squad, and leave the tungsten ammo to myself.  It is slightly more versatile than incendiary since it kills Geth at about the same rate as disruptor, although it also goes through armor on the big guys faster.  Shields are not a huge problem since rapid fire weapons have decent multipliers against shields and also because my anti-geth team is usually Miranda and Garrus which means 2 overloads.

I used inferno on my Vanguard to good effect, but the way Vanguard works is a bit different than soldier.

2: I would never actively use Concussive Shot as a damage dealing ability. Even shotgun sniping under A-rush will deal more damage (and if you break shields you can proc Inferno/Cryo/Disruptor Ammo). As far as I'm concerned CS only draw is the Crowd Control, which is moderate, the Shatter which is fairly good and if you miss Carnage which will leave you dissapointed.:?

Typically I wouldn't either, except for perhaps a squadmates if they didn't have any better power to offer.  That is basically why I mentioned the fact that weapons are probably better against barriers in reality and so that advantage for CS over Slam isn't a huge selling point.  All in all though I never felt that trying to play Soldier with a crowd controll sort of style all that compelling.  It is geared towards shooting things, and typically if you can't kill it with your guns you would probably get killed trying to do some tricks instead anyway.  The example with the husks I gave is similar to what you can do as an adept against an entire wave of husks, albeit more efficiently than soldier because of passive, but in the end just hitting AR and mowing down the whole wave is most of the time the way to go.

Carnage was almost the only reason I would touch a shotgun in the first game... when I finally branched out to non-soldier classes (which was after I had beat ME2 multiple times already) I ended up just taking AR training for most of the other classes as my bonus and never touched the shotty again.  But that doesn't mean Ash and Wrex didn't get to Carnage it up.


It is just my opinion though, there's really no need to go spreading it around.

:)

Modifié par capn233, 11 novembre 2011 - 03:22 .


#21
Locutus_of_BORG

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RedCaesar97 wrote...

Concussive Shot is like a spork. A spork is a combination spoon and fork, but does the job of neither. Concussive Shot is a combination of Throw and Warp but does the job of neither.

Make that a plastic spork. A plastic spork for blugeoning and stabbing weapon. Concussive Shot SUCKS!

ryoldschool wrote...

Sarah_sr2, thanks for a fresh question. Ok, so I see where this is going. Slam can also set up warp bombs where neural shock is also very effective plus has AOE - RedCaesar97 has plenty of videos using neural shock on shotgun soldier, and Mi-Chan has a bunch of also great videos using slam. You can't go wrong with either. I used stasis on my soldier, but I liked the gameplay options that slam and neural shock gave those guys.

Concussive shot is a fun power - to be used when you are fooling around. I used the heck out of it in my Revenant run I just completed. As a damage power its pitiful ( fully upgraded it does almost nothing to Vasir's barrier ), and does not benefit from upgrades, etc. It gives some cool shattering effects if you are using cryo ammo.

Yeah, use CS for fun. It's a fun power. But by no means is it a good power.

Between Neural Shock and Slam, it's kind of a wash. Everybody who plays ME2 should learn the joys of abusing Neural Shock, Slam and Stasis. As a Soldier, use Slam or Stasis if you don't want to respec ever.

Flashbang Grenade is fun too, but sadly doesn't come close to the imba of NS, Slam, Stasis.