Dave of Canada wrote...
Grayson didn't kill a single Cerberus operative.
Well, he did, but that was before they dosed him with the Reaper tech.
Modifié par didymos1120, 11 novembre 2011 - 12:11 .
If you could, would you still be working with Cerberus?
Débuté par
SNascimento
, nov. 10 2011 02:56
#376
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:09
didymos1120
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Well, he did, but that was before they dosed him with the Reaper tech.
Retour en haut
#377
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Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:10
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IanPolaris wrote...
The whole idea was so sound that he virtually destroyed all galactic civilization.
Almost, but it didn't. Even in the midst of disaster Overlord proved that it worked. It did what it was supposed to do and more.
You have no evidence that TIM approved of or even knew about Archer's decision to link David to the V.I.. Why should that have resulted in the horror that it did anyway? Can you explain the science to me?
IanPolaris wrote...
Without Shepard, all galactic civilization dies.
How do you know? (without meta-gaming) He is just one man.
I define a project's success by asking this: did the project reach its goal or not? Did the losses outweigh the costs or not?
IanPolaris wrote...
And of course the Super-Powerful Grayson/Reaper puppet could never break or defeat Cerberus security....oh wait.....
No he wouldn't and didn't. The turians had to bust him out by attacking with overwhelming force with their best troops. Cerberus put a stop to Grayson in the end while everyone else sat on their ass.
IanPolaris wrote...
The husks destroyed the entire colony that was supposed to be studying them. Not a good result. As for the Thorian, that also was an utter failure.
That wasn't Cerberus took their own husks and left. They didn't run the colony. Read the log that gives you that mission again.
What killed the pioneer colony was the dragon's teeth.
If you want more Cerberus successes read their Shadow Broker dossier.
However I'll list a few more.
The development of EDI...
The construction of the Normandy SR1 to gain insight into turian ship building practices...
The construction of the SR2...
The uncovering of the Klendagon weapon or its target...
The recovering of the Reaper IFF...
The hacking of the Collector ship mainframe...
The luring of the Collectors to Horizon...
The defeat of the Collectors and salvaging of technology...
The theft of Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker...
The uncovering and elimination of the Shadow Broker...
#378
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Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:11
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didymos1120 wrote...
Well, he did, but that was before they dosed him the Reaper tech.
Was it even him? I thought it was his girlfriend who killed one. Or did they lose two?
#379
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Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:13
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didymos1120 wrote...
This is kind of a mischaracterization. They weren't even aware of what was going on with Grayson until they saw him, so it's not like screwing up that project in particular was one of their goals.
No, just screwing Cerberus in general despite knowing that Cerberus was one of the only groups in the galaxy even attempting to fight against the Reapers.
Anderson especially looks like a fool because of this. He also managed to damage relations between the turians and Alliance in the process and shatter any Alliance credibility on the galactic scene. Good job, Anderson! (lucky for you, Captain, Bioware decided to ignore this little miss-step)
#380
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:14
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IanPolaris wrote...
That depends on how the Reapers are defeated. It's at least feasible that the way to defeat the Reapers is to somehow terminate all their integral programs (and Reapers are actually communities of AI programs). If those processes are terminated it's reasonable to think that the indoctrination process is as well.
-Polaris
No it isn't. Reaper techonology is more than just computer code. The physical hardware will still exist.
#381
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:15
didymos1120
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Saphra Deden wrote...
didymos1120 wrote...
Well, he did, but that was before they dosed him the Reaper tech.
Was it even him? I thought it was his girlfriend who killed one. Or did they lose two?
Yeah, just checked: you're right. It was Liselle. I thought Grayson tagged one after she got tranqed.
Modifié par didymos1120, 11 novembre 2011 - 12:16 .
#382
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:17
Dave of Canada
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didymos1120 wrote...
Dave of Canada wrote...
Grayson didn't kill a single Cerberus operative.
Well, he did, but that was before they dosed him with the Reaper tech.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
#383
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:22
didymos1120
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Re: Cerberus and success/failure in general, I think the problem a lot of my fellow non-Cerberus fans have is that they just go "High casualty count? FAIL!" Well, that's your criterion, not theirs. Cerberus has very different ideas about what does and does not constitute "acceptable losses". A full-team wipe is entirely acceptable to Cerberus in many (if not most) circumstances. Case in point: the "Shepard dies" ending.
#384
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:26
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Dave of Canada wrote...
Yeah, that's what I meant.
Enh, I was wrong anyway.
#385
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Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:32
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didymos1120 wrote...
Re: Cerberus and success/failure in general, I think the problem a lot of my fellow non-Cerberus fans have is that they just go "High casualty count? FAIL!" Well, that's your criterion, not theirs. Cerberus has very different ideas about what does and does not constitute "acceptable losses". A full-team wipe is entirely acceptable to Cerberus in many (if not most) circumstances. Case in point: the "Shepard dies" ending.
That's just not an accurate definition of "failure". My way is very basic.
Was the goal achieved? Y/N
If "Y" then it was a success.
If "N" then it was a failure.
The rachni experiments were a "failure" because they did not achieve the goal.
Teltin was a failure because though it technically achieved the goal of creating a super powerful human biotic it would appear the results were not cost-effective.
The mission to retrieve Gillian was obviously a failure, though the prior mission to gain the access codes and ship necessary to infiltrate the Migrant Fleet was a success.
With the derelict Reaper I think a lot of people haven't thought enough about the situation.
If you boarded that Reaper, what would you do? What would you look for? Where would you start?
It is a mystery how the crew even found the IFF in the first place. Did you see that thing? It was tiny. The Reaper itself was what, a mile long maybe? How on Earth did they ever find the IFF in time? It could have taken a decade to dismantle that thing.
I have my own theories on that, but they are just theories.
I would say the derelict Reaper team succeeded despite the odds being against them.
#386
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:48
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Saphra Deden wrote...
That's just not an accurate definition of "failure"..
Well, yeah, but that seems to be how a lot of people around here judge things when it comes to Cerberus.
#387
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:52
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didymos1120 wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
That's just not an accurate definition of "failure"..
Well, yeah, but that seems to be how a lot of people around here judge things when it comes to Cerberus.
I know and I wasn't saying you judged success/failure that way but I wanted to elaborate on what I was saying before.
#388
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 12:58
didymos1120
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Saphra Deden wrote...
I know and I wasn't saying you judged success/failure that way but I wanted to elaborate on what I was saying before.
Oh, sorry. Anyway, what it looks like to me is that people are making the judgement that Project X is a moral failure, and then, well, failing to separate that from the distinct issue of whether or not the goal, as defined by Cerberus, was attained.
#389
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:20
Lotion Soronarr
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GodWood wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
The SR-2 was built to give to Shepard so he could fight the collector. It most certainly does directly involve Shepard. Same with EDI.
-Polaris
Because Cerberus gave Shepard the SR2 and EDI their creation can not be considered a successful project?
What kind of ****ed up logic is that?
Polaris logic...
In other worlds, total absence of it.
#390
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:22
Yuoaman
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I don't know, the SR2 and EDI projects would probably be considered failures at the end (at least of a Paragon ending, I have never actually gone through with a Renegade playing), since Shepard sort of runs off with them.
#391
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:35
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How is that at all a failure?Yuoaman wrote...
I don't know, the SR2 and EDI projects would probably be considered failures at the end (at least of a Paragon ending, I have never actually gone through with a Renegade playing), since Shepard sort of runs off with them.
They successfully built EDI and the SR2 and EDI + the SR2 succeeded in doing what they were meant to do. How does some moron stealing them afterwards nullify that?
Modifié par GodWood, 11 novembre 2011 - 01:38 .
#392
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:36
SNascimento
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.Yuoaman wrote...
I don't know, the SR2 and EDI projects would probably be considered failures at the end (at least of a Paragon ending, I have never actually gone through with a Renegade playing), since Shepard sort of runs off with them.
They would have been considered a failure if Shepard wasn't able to disable the collectors, and he did. In good part because of them two, especially EDI.
#393
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:37
FDrage
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I guess most people would say .. success at any costs ... in case Teltin was a success as well.
#394
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:44
S Seraff
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a very practical shepard who wanted to win at any cost would choose cerberus over the alliance if cerberus actually had more resources a its disposal. how a human-centric private corporation could have more resources than the entire multi-race alliance is beyond me though.
#395
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:50
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
Let's kill babies to unlock biotic potential! What could possibly go wrong?
Let's see if we can use husks and Thorian creepers for slave labor! What could possibly go wrong?
Let's give this Grayson guy Reaper implants! What could possibly go wrong?
Those were hardly reckless.
#396
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:53
Killjoy Cutter
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The_Crazy_Hand wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Well like I implied above, I think it depends on the Shepard. If you are playing a Renegade Shep that wants to "win at any cost" (appropriate for the Torfan Background), then all TIM would have to do is tell her (my renegade Sheps tend to be FemSheps) and she would likely agree that this is the best way. Futhermore after working with her for months TIM should know that she'd be reasonable about such an approach (and Miranda and Jacob could both attest to it as well).
Near as I can tell, TIM never gives Shep (no matter what background or decisions you made) the option.
So Cerberus hostility makes perfect sense for a Paragon Shep (esp one that nuked the Collector Base) but I am not sure it makes sense for some Renegade Sheps.
-Polaris
You make an excellent point, but as the endings in question would be renegade endings, the option to join with Cerberus in doing so may present itself. Of course, one would wonder why TIM wouldn't just ask Shepard BEFORE fighting with him, but *SHRUGS*
Because at Bioware, the intelligence of the characters, consistant characterization, and overall continuity, come in a distant second behind the immediate whims of the writer and whatever pet story moment they have in mind.
#397
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 01:54
Killjoy Cutter
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Lizardviking wrote...
AdmiralCheez wrote...
Let's kill babies to unlock biotic potential! What could possibly go wrong?
Let's see if we can use husks and Thorian creepers for slave labor! What could possibly go wrong?
Let's give this Grayson guy Reaper implants! What could possibly go wrong?
Those were hardly reckless.
I have multiple playthroughs of ME1 and ME2 full of evidence to the contrary.
#398
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 02:01
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Lizardviking wrote...
AdmiralCheez wrote...
Let's kill babies to unlock biotic potential! What could possibly go wrong?
Let's see if we can use husks and Thorian creepers for slave labor! What could possibly go wrong?
Let's give this Grayson guy Reaper implants! What could possibly go wrong?
Those were hardly reckless.
I have multiple playthroughs of ME1 and ME2 full of evidence to the contrary.
Really?
Teltin was cruel. But worst case scenario was simply the place getting destroyed and some messed up kids with biotics escaping. Hardly something that would cause the end of the galaxy or Cerberus.
The other two were simply experiments ruined because an outside force decided to intervine.
#399
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 02:01
Lotion Soronarr
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You got no evidence to anything.
#400
Posté 11 novembre 2011 - 02:03
Killjoy Cutter
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EDIT: Removed, evidently my posts can't included hidden text.
Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 11 novembre 2011 - 02:05 .
