592 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

I don't disagree, but you said they were nonviolent. That is incorrect.

[Yuoaman]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I don't disagree, but you said they were nonviolent. That is incorrect.

Poor wording on my part, they're nonaggressive. If attacked or threatened they'll defend themselves, but they aren't the type to build huge fleets and attack people.

[IanPolaris]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The geth have a very liberal interpretation of "threatened".

No they really don't.  They observe that organics have an irrational fear of AI and will use methods to defeat/control AIs that would be considered immoral (if not war crimes) if used against any organic.  Take Legion to Illium and he makes this very point w/r/t EDI and Slavery.

If the Geth were agressive and prone to take a 'proactive' defense posture, the Quarians would have been killed to the last man, woman, and child three hundred years ago.  The Geth left the Quarians alone once the Geth has insured their own continued existance.

Bottom line, the Quarians owe their continued existance to Geth non-agressiveness.

-Polaris

[Arijharn]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Which makes this statement hilarious. How can you type that with a straight face?

"irrational" Do you know what the geth did? What they've always done? Did you forget the A.I. on the Citadel? How about the A.I.'s invading the galaxy?

Like I said. The geth have worked hard to validate every organic fear of A.I..

It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though.

Organics are afraid of AI species because of what they did in the past and attack them without hesitation, the AI species see that we attack without hesitation, so in order to preserve their own existence, they attack without hesitation as well.

[Yuoaman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

No they really don't.

Yes they do. An emissary is not a threat. The geth kill anyway. They kill anyone who goes near them.

IanPolaris wrote...

They observe that organics have an irrational fear of AI

Which makes this statement hilarious. How can you type that with a straight face?

"irrational" Do you know what the geth did? What they've always done? Did you forget the A.I. on the Citadel? How about the A.I.'s invading the galaxy?

Like I said. The geth have worked hard to validate every organic fear of A.I..

Now you're just being silly.

It is an irrational fear - we turn AIs violent by being violent towards them ourselves.

[Yuoaman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

It is an irrational fear - we turn AIs violent by being violent towards them ourselves.

No, we aren't. Shepard can try to reason with the A.I. on the Citadel but it won't negotiate.

The Council took the geth's side in the Morning War. Later the Council even sent emissaries to contact them. The geth killed them.

Even among the quarians there are groups which desire peace with the geth, but the geth make no such offers themselves.

The AI on the citadel won't negotiate because it knows Shepard can't do anything to help it.

Who's to say that the 'emissaries' were legitimate?

And those who want peace are a minority in the quarian population.

[Yuoaman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

The AI on the citadel won't negotiate because it knows Shepard can't do anything to help it.

Shepard could do a lot to help it. However the A.I. refuses to trust him or even consider the matter. Instead it immediately resorts to threats.

Yuoaman wrote...

Who's to say that the 'emissaries' were legitimate?

Unless you can present me with evidence that they weren't there is no reason to assume any ulterior motive. You don't understand how logical argument works.

I think you and I are done talking.

First of all, who's to say that the AI wasn't just mistrusting? AIs don't have to be perfectly logical... And how exactly would he help it? Smuggle it onto an outgoing ship, and proceed to get caught and accused of treason against all Council races?

[Clara Shepard]

Bekkael wrote...

Hell to the no. I hated being railroaded into it in ME2, and can't wait to be out of their grasp in ME3.

It's like you speak my mind, Bekkael, but I'm wishing for the choice to tell TIM to shove it too.v

[IanPolaris]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

It is an irrational fear - we turn AIs violent by being violent towards them ourselves.

No, we aren't. Shepard can try to reason with the A.I. on the Citadel but it won't negotiate.

The AI on the citadel tells you why it won't negotiate.  It feels (and with good reason) that Shepard like all other organics is lying or at least being deceitful.  Safer to just destroy the threat.

The Council took the geth's side in the Morning War. Later the Council even sent emissaries to contact them. The geth killed them.

Source?  The Council censured the Quarians not for genocide but because the Quarians broke council laws by making an unsanctioned AI.  I have never heard of any official emissaries trying to contact the Geth.    Some have contacted the Heretics and died, but that's to be expected given the Heretic logic.  The problem is no one outside the Geth (until Legion tells Shepard) really knows that there is a schism, and the Geth don't care about Organics enough to enlighten them.

That makes for a viscious cycle.

Even among the quarians there are groups which desire peace with the geth, but the geth make no such offers themselves.

Legion himself tells you why.  "Whever the Creators have determined that victory is possible, they have attacked us 100% of the time."  Even if it's not true, that is the perception/concensus of the Geth and that's why the Geth don't trust organics.  As for contact, the Geth have been trying to study organics for a while now in order to contact them peacefully.  The Geth know what they don't know.  They don't understand Quarian/Creator emotions and understand that no peace is possible until they do.  Hence their hands-off study of organics in an attempt to model their behavior.  Legion is one result of that study and was custom built to 'network' with organics....in short Legion is a Geth ambassador (more or less).

-Polaris

[didymos1120]

IanPolaris wrote...

If the Geth were agressive and prone to take a 'proactive' defense posture, the Quarians would have been killed to the last man, woman, and child three hundred years ago. 

Had they not fled into territory that was inhabited by other species, thus meaning that pursuit would have risked a much wider war, the quarians would have been.  Yeah, 17 million sounds like a lot, but not compared to the billions of already-slaughtered quarians.  You really think all that killing was absolutely necessary to make sure the quarians weren't a threat anymore?  Even though only a tiny fraction of them would have been in the government or military?

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 novembre 2011 - 10:47 .

[IanPolaris]

didymos1120 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

If the Geth were agressive and prone to take a 'proactive' defense posture, the Quarians would have been killed to the last man, woman, and child three hundred years ago. 

Had they not fled into territory that was inhabited by other species, thus meaning that pursuit would have risked a much wider war, the quarians would have been.  Yeah, 17 million sounds like a lot, but not compared to the billions of already-slaughtered quarians.  You really think all that killing was absolutely necessary to make sure the quarians weren't a threat anymore?  Even though only a tiny fraction of them would have been in the government or military?

The reason billions of Quarians died is because they lost almost all of their living space.  That happens.  You seem to imply that the Geth lined up billions of Quarians and shot them against the wall, but that isn't so.  The Quarians made peaceful coexistance with the Geth impossible and so the Geth took the Quarian's living space in an act of self defense.  The Morning War was a brutal war but it was NOT a genocidal one.  The Geth had plenty of opportunity to "finish the job" and never did...and the Quarians always wondered why.  It wasn't like the other races were that sympathetic to the Quarians in this, nor was or is there any evidence that the Geth fear anything.

The fact is very simple.  Once the Geth got what they wanted, they left everyone else alone, and asked only to be left alone.

The Heretics are different of course.

-Polaris

[MegaBadExample]

If you could, woud you still be working with Cerberus?

Nope.

[LilyasAvalon]

No, white and black just ain't Shep's colours.

[Aurora313]

My two shepards both distrust cerberus, one dislikes their methods intensely and the other never bought into what TIM had to say in the first place.

Both of them were gonna leave as soon as the Collectors were destroyed. Taking with them, the Normandy. The would go back to talk with Anderson, ask for his help then try and get reinstated into the Alliance. And even use the information that was in the Normandy's data files to try and batter they way back in. Even if it was at a diminished rank.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Delete Legion and all Geth.
Purge the Quarians.
Eradicate the Asari.

Cerberus uber alles!

[Had-to-say]

Yes this would require lots of work to implement in the game but I most certainly would let one of my Sheps be a pro human jerk. Just for kicks and giggles.

[Get Magna Carter]

no

[Selene Moonsong]

Agreed, in a word: NO!

[BatmanPWNS]

Depends on the pay.

[RiouHotaru]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Yes, if only for the stylish logo and exquisite color scheme.

While I may not agree with how they achieve everything, at least they get the job done, and then some.

Too bad none of this matters in ME3, as Cerberus seems to be reduced to comic book villain status no what your decisions or intentions where. So far for choices that matter...

This might be three days old but I still can't look at this and no go "lolwat"

How does your decisions have ANYTHING to do with the fact TIM basically goes "I don't need you anymore" and wanting Shepard dead?

And as for the original question?  No.  Look at ALL the heinous experiments they performed against not only aliens, but other humans.  That'd be like saying PETA is a peaceful and completely benign organization and that we should all enlist.