232 réponses à ce sujet

[Reno_Tarshil]

Between the PS3 and PC version of Origins, I have prolly about 7-10 completed playthroughs. A little over half of these is Human Noble Male DW Warrior and the Other half is City Elf DW Warrior/Rogue.

For DA2 I have 6 completed playthroughs. 3 Rogues, 2 Warriors and 1 Mage. I was on my 7th when my Hard drive went out.

I enjoyed DA:O for when it was fun and addicting, but that time is past and DA2 has replaced it for me. I find DA2 to be a fun and exciting game where every right click I do as a Rogue something amazing happens.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

FaeQueenCory wrote...

Arthur Cousland wrote...

I'm on my 5th playthrough of DA2.

I suppose with this game, it helps to like rpg combat and not play mainly for the story. While the new playthroughs don't really offer anything new, I still have fun. Replayability would have been helped if DA2 had something similar to the origin stories of DA1, and with a more flexible story instead of the framed narrative, and of course, the recycled maps do get annoying.

Oh my god! I think you're on to something VERY profound that never occured to me..... I only play RPGs for the story, y'know... cause it's an RPG.
The combat could be the most amazing thing ever, but the story is utter **** and I will hate the game... And if the controls are crappy but the story is the best thing ever... I will love that game to death.

That's also why I don't care if it's turn-based, action, real-time, strategy or whatever... so long as there is a compelling narrative.

I really think you're on to something there... and I bet there is probably a correlation between people who disliked DA2 and people who play RPGs for the story, and people who liked DA2 and people who play RPGs for the combat...

I like DA2, and I care about story A LOT.  If you take away the race difference in DAO and really look at it, it's the same... side with elves or werewolves, side with mages or templars... in the end you fight the same archdemon.  It's the same here... side with mages or side with templars, in the end whether she was right or not, Meredith's horrendous treatment of the mages becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.  

Look at it this way....

1. Stay true, don't be a blood mage! 
Result: Templars assumes you are a blood mage, and they in mass cut you down.

2. Be a blood mage, cause the templars already assumes you are!
Result: Templars (rightly) assumes you are a blood mage and templars try  to cut you down... you mind control them to kill each other, and run away in the chaos.

Now, given DEATH or BLOOD MAGE... which option would YOU pick?  The only mages that won't resort to blood magic are those that would truly rather die.  When it becomes survival of the fittest, the fittest are blood mages. Period.

That's the point here, and why while your decisions is who you side with, the ball is already rolling, the mages will be attacked by the templars, many will resort to blood magic FOR SURVIVAL... the choice for you then is do you minimize the damage and risk letting blood mages live or do you truly go ruthless and kill every mage even the innocents?  Further, if not a mage do you kill your own sister, even though you know in your heart she's not a blood mage? 

[Icinix]

I cannot replay DA2.

I have tried.

Once was enough.

I have a savegame for DA3 now - hopefully it will be a game worth getting.

[Aaleel]

I found DA:O to have so much more replay value.  For example, just a piece of DA:O

Generic Playthrough 1:

Human Noble Origin, go to Ostagar, then do Broken Circle (I Always get the Fade out the way first)
-  Side with mages, pick up Wynne, rescue Irving and the other mages.
- Later at Redcliffe, go back to Tower get Lyrium Enter the Fade
- Send in Morrigan fight the Demon, Save connor

Generic Playthrough 2: 

Mage Origin, go to Ostagar, then do the Broken Circle
- Side with Templars, Kill Wynne, Let the mages die
- Now I'll have a completely different party make and strategy
- Later at Redcliffe, no extra Lyrium because they're no mages
- Now I have to either sacrifice someone, or fight the demon
- Since I'm a mage I can go into the Fade this time
- Now I have the choice the fight the demon of make a deal exchanging Connor's soul for power

Just in that small piece or Origins I found more replay value than I found in DA2 and far as differences based on choices.

Then you have different roles you can put your party members in.  I've used Morrigan as a Spirit Healer, and Arcane Warrior aside from damage dealing mage.  I've used Leliana as a bard, DW rogue or archer.  In DA2 your companions are what they are, archers will always be archers, DW rogues will always be DW rogues.  Aveline will be a tank and Fenris will be a 2H warrior. 

[MKDAWUSS]

Icinix wrote...

I cannot replay DA2.

I have tried.

Once was enough.

I have a savegame for DA3 now - hopefully it will be a game worth getting.

I went through DA2 once on the initial playthrough. I tried it again several months later, never finished Act I. I tried it again a few weeks ago and now I'm at the end of Act III before the Endgame, waiting for the final DLC to be released. Then it's Endgame and hello to DA3.

[Nyreen]

Icinix wrote...

I cannot replay DA2.

I have tried.

Once was enough.

I have a savegame for DA3 now - hopefully it will be a game worth getting.

^ This. The game was a major disappointment.

[Veloric Wu]

DA2 is better in that the game is not about heroes saving the world from some big evil force(again and again~which is cliche~). It's about Mage vs. Templar, and the story focuses on it very well.

I don't see how you can say DAO has a better way of telling the story.Of course there is siding with magi or templars choice, but just didn't play out as a major element (compared to DA2)

Modifié par FeriktheCerberus, 11 novembre 2011 - 04:04 .

[cJohnOne]

I had 13 playthroughs of Origins and I think will get there with DA2 too. There's a point after five playthroughs where you start to repeat classes but I'm enjoying it still.

[Yuqi]

If your a dialogue fan, you can go through it five times,and still not hear everything.

[DragonRageGT]

I agree that Origins is in a whole different category of game, compared to DA2. Origins is a classic and will be replayable forever! This from someone with over 2,000 hrs, over 20 full runs. I can't say the same about Origins' stand alone DLC's. I did replay Awakening a lot but the others, not really. The ones that add to the main game are great though.

After 6 full runs with DA2, it got quite annoying, because of a lot of things that most people agree and some that divided the fan base. I think that the recycled areas are unanimous while the art direction and lack of soul in the details, compared to Origins, are somewhat personal to me and most gamers that are on my friends list here on BSN.

I've just started another run, after quite a while (couldn't even finish Legacy because TW2 was too much of a better game at that time. Still is but I need a break from it. Too much replays already) and DA2 is not a bad game at all. I quite like it. This is the first run from start with the new patch and game feels a lot better. But I'm at the beginning. Hopefully it will keep the feeling till the end.

Still, it is another category compared to Origins and some very few other games but it is a lot better than some other games I've played to exhaustion too.

One thing I dislike is that they used some ME2 animations but they didn't had 1/10th of the care that they gave to ME2, in the loading screens for instance. In ME2, every loading screen is part of the history, like Origins but with a different style. And some are very unique to the game's story too. There were much better things in ME2 library that could have been used other than the drinking animation and the "You think you'll get in? I'm waiting here all day." line!

The fidelity to the previous game characters' faces and details and art style, to start with but I won't list them all. I'll be busy with DA2 waiting for Skyrim release in my country! =)

Modifié par RageGT, 11 novembre 2011 - 05:33 .

[Uccio]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DAO also allowed you to choose different builds for your companions, too. In DAO you can have an all-DW part, or an all-archer party. DA2 allows no such thing.

Just because you can't switch weapons for companions doesn't mean you can't build them differently.

Phaedros wrote...

Morroian wrote...

eroeru wrote...

This game has very little replay value.

For me it does, 6 play throughs compared to 4 for DAO.

for me DA2 once too much
....

Still finding new conversations/cut scenes in vanilla Origins, nevermind the still updated mods .. not possible in DA2 .....

If you only played it once you can't possibly have seen all the different conversations or cut scenes, so stop talking nonsense.

After doing what you suggest I can honestly say it makes no difference. The game is so rigid that minor discussion changes do not bring anything new to the gameplay.

[Uccio]

FeriktheCerberus wrote...

DA2 is better in that the game is not about heroes saving the world from some big evil force(again and again~which is cliche~). It's about Mage vs. Templar, and the story focuses on it very well.

I don't see how you can say DAO has a better way of telling the story.Of course there is siding with magi or templars choice, but just didn't play out as a major element (compared to DA2)

For me being the super hero has never been a issue. I can and gladly play a character who is just a "normal" hero with all of his shortcomings. That said DA2 was just too railroaded to save the storyline. What I look for the game is choises and consequenses, situations where my personality/discussions/choises affect the storyline and cause it to shift towards other end. DA2 could not deliver in that sence.

[themonty72]

I played DA2 too many times to count...maybe the combat and companions kept me coming back. Didnt enjoy act 3 so well...but Bioware will get right next time.It might not have replay value to some thats understandable, people like and dislike different things and have different views about DA2.

Modifié par themonty72, 11 novembre 2011 - 08:42 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

FeriktheCerberus wrote...

DA2 is better in that the game is not about heroes saving the world from some big evil force(again and again~which is cliche~). It's about Mage vs. Templar, and the story focuses on it very well.

I don't see how you can say DAO has a better way of telling the story.Of course there is siding with magi or templars choice, but just didn't play out as a major element (compared to DA2)

I agree that DA2 had the better story.

Unfortunately, that had remarkably little bearing on the quality of roleplaying the game allowed.

[Enurale]

(sorry, my english isnt soo good)


Hello Everyone, There is my opnions...

I have tried too, i cannot replay too... yes one walkthrought enough perfecty for da2...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DA2 has lower customization choices than DA:O... Chancing class not enough for playing again...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-----------Wishes for DA3----------

--- i want to play a story, which concern a real hero "and" a fantastic world... Like Hero of Ferelden, A honoured person, a Grey Warden... Grey Warden concept too succesfull to forget.

--- i want a character, who totally belongs to me... A character, who has a name of my choice...
yes, maybe my character is a cousland, but i have choices... A dwarf duster or princess or slave elven or traditional elves, nobles, mages... Please give a chance to us, we want to see again origins in a new game and continued story...

---i want to choice; appearances, skills, stats, talents, gear, weapon upgrades and customizations and more... More customization = more sense of identification.

--- i want party members, who "totally" customized by me, yes, include gear circulation.

--- i want to see a real world, like origins world. Seeing same maps continuosly soo boring, do you really think DA2 has really succesful world? Remember the size, chamber of magi to fort drakon + dlc's.

--- I dont want to see Mass Effect Wheels in Dragon Age... If i want to play ME, i can, i want to play Dragon Age, ORIGINAL Dragon Age...

--- I played DA:O and Awakening and ALL dlc's for 7 walkthrought with different ends.... A dps mage, A arcane Warrior, Cun/dd/Bard+Assas rogue X2, (yes two times, origins rogue, much better than DA2 rogue, dont forget skill tab), a DW warrior, a tank and an Archer... i did, stealth, stealing, trapping, herbalism, survival, poison quests in DA:O, DA2 not have professions and profession quests...

--- i want MORE character creation and appearance detail. Look at dragon age nexus, peoples downloads mostly cosmetic addins and overrrides...

--- I released the old man in the Grey Wardens Keep dlc, i want to see consequences, like this...

--- i want to recruit hawke with my grey warden hero... its a dream, isnt it ?

--- i want to see again spell combinations, this is a part of thedas, we know this from first game, why i didnt see this inthe DA2 ? answer please, this is a PRG, isnt it ?

--- i have TENS of gear sets in DA2, all of them bound to my main character, this is equal to this, most of them useles... Because my companions not able to use this items... Think this logically please... My character continuously finds new armours and able to wear them... Why the others not able to use this items? ?? I want to give better equipments to my companions, ALLOW ME, I CANT DO THAT FOR YOU (leliana, i love you)

--- DA:O characters absolutely better... Morrigan, Leliana, Alistair, Sandal, Bodah, Wynne, all of DA:O charasters succesfull, absolutely this ones... Varric the best character, who created in DA:2. we want characters with real personalities, please think them, remember them emotionally...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND... DA2 has good changes... Keep them...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- DA2 has faster combats, keep it. But i dont like spawning enemies. think this scenario, tens of mobs running to us, or appearing in the space, which one more logical and enjoyable?
--- DA2 mages has more effective autoattack method with staves, (stave is not a wand) keep it.
--- DA2 has better crafting resource gathering method, keep it.
--- DA2 has better Spell icons, keep it. (upkeeps hexagon, active speels square, passives circle, thats easy for use..
--- In DA2, my character fully voiced, this is biggest "plus" for DA2. Keep it.
--- Varric is a successfull add for DA series... Like most of origins characters... Save him.


this list getting soo long, enough for this moment.

Thnx everyone who reads unabashedly...

Modifié par Enurale, 11 novembre 2011 - 12:29 .

[Enurale]

I m waiting for DA3, not only for the Story,  i m curious about changes...

Modifié par Enurale, 11 novembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[King Cailan The Great]

Enurale wrote...

(sorry, my english isnt soo good)


Hello Everyone, There is my opnions...

I have tried too, i cannot replay too... yes one walkthrought enough perfecty for da2...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DA2 has lower customization choices than DA:O... Chancing class not enough for playing again...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-----------Wishes for DA3----------

--- i want to play a story, which concern a real hero "and" a fantastic world... Like Hero of Ferelden, A honoured person, a Grey Warden... Grey Warden concept too succesfull to forget.

--- i want a character, who totally belongs to me... A character, who has a name of my choice...
yes, maybe my character is a cousland, but i have choices... A dwarf duster or princess or slave elven or traditional elves, nobles, mages... Please give a chance to us, we want to see again origins in a new game and continued story...

---i want to choice; appearances, skills, stats, talents, gear, weapon upgrades and customizations and more... More customization = more sense of identification.

--- i want party members, who "totally" customized by me, yes, include gear circulation.

--- i want to see a real world, like origins world. Seeing same maps continuosly soo boring, do you really think DA2 has really succesful world? Remember the size, chamber of magi to fort drakon + dlc's.

--- I dont want to see Mass Effect Wheels in Dragon Age... If i want to play ME, i can, i want to play Dragon Age, ORIGINAL Dragon Age...

--- I played DA:O and Awakening and ALL dlc's for 7 walkthrought with different ends.... A dps mage, A arcane Warrior, Cun/dd/Bard+Assas rogue X2, (yes two times, origins rogue, much better than DA2 rogue, dont forget skill tab), a DW warrior, a tank and an Archer... i did, stealth, stealing, trapping, herbalism, survival, poison quests in DA:O, DA2 not have professions and profession quests...

--- i want MORE character creation and appearance detail. Look at dragon age nexus, peoples downloads mostly cosmetic addins and overrrides...

--- I released the old man in the Grey Wardens Keep dlc, i want to see consequences, like this...

--- i want to recruit hawke with my grey warden hero... its a dream, isnt it ?

--- i want to see again spell combinations, this is a part of thedas, we know this from first game, why i didnt see this inthe DA2 ? answer please, this is a PRG, isnt it ?

--- i have TENS of gear sets in DA2, all of them bound to my main character, this is equal to this, most of them useles... Because my companions not able to use this items... Think this logically please... My character continuously finds new armours and able to wear them... Why the others not able to use this items? ?? I want to give better equipments to my companions, ALLOW ME, I CANT DO THAT FOR YOU (leliana, i love you)

--- DA:O characters absolutely better... Morrigan, Leliana, Alistair, Sandal, Bodah, Wynne, all of DA:O charasters succesfull, absolutely this ones... Varric the best character, who created in DA:2. we want characters with real personalities, please think them, remember them emotionally...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND... DA2 has good changes... Keep them...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- DA2 has faster combats, keep it. But i dont like spawning enemies. think this scenario, tens of mobs running to us, or appearing in the space, which one more logical and enjoyable?
--- DA2 mages has more effective autoattack method with staves, (stave is not a wand) keep it.
--- DA2 has better crafting resource gathering method, keep it.
--- DA2 has better Spell icons, keep it. (upkeeps hexagon, active speels square, passives circle, thats easy for use..
--- In DA2, my character fully voiced, this is biggest "plus" for DA2. Keep it.
--- Varric is a successfull add for DA series... Like most of origins characters... Save him.


this list getting soo long, enough for this moment.

Thnx everyone who reads unabashedly...

I completely 100000% agree with you and I am waiting for DA3. It has been a disappointment by the time I started to play the game.I was expecting all the above concept you have mentioned with much bigger expectations...Now all we have to do...is just to wait for DA3 to come..

[Faded_Jeans]

I agree with the OP. The game itself isn't enjoyable for me anymore, while DA:O still is. The DLC has been fun though.

[Enurale]

Thanks guys for comments, we have same expectations generally, everyone can see this, who is a real PRG player, i have hope about Bioware's reaction...

Please Bioware, give our game to us...

And one more wish for DA3: DA:O achievement graphics and graphic tab (in the main menu) far better than DA2. I played last two walkthroughts for achievements. Players in need of reasons, for playing multiple walkthroughts. Like achievements, different specced and customized characters and explarations and different game starts/ends and different talkings and RPG elements.

[FaeQueenCory]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

I like DA2, and I care about story A LOT.  If you take away the race difference in DAO and really look at it, it's the same... side with elves or werewolves, side with mages or templars... in the end you fight the same archdemon.  It's the same here... side with mages or side with templars, in the end whether she was right or not, Meredith's horrendous treatment of the mages becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.  

Look at it this way....

1. Stay true, don't be a blood mage! 
Result: Templars assumes you are a blood mage, and they in mass cut you down.

2. Be a blood mage, cause the templars already assumes you are!
Result: Templars (rightly) assumes you are a blood mage and templars try  to cut you down... you mind control them to kill each other, and run away in the chaos.

Now, given DEATH or BLOOD MAGE... which option would YOU pick?  The only mages that won't resort to blood magic are those that would truly rather die.  When it becomes survival of the fittest, the fittest are blood mages. Period.

That's the point here, and why while your decisions is who you side with, the ball is already rolling, the mages will be attacked by the templars, many will resort to blood magic FOR SURVIVAL... the choice for you then is do you minimize the damage and risk letting blood mages live or do you truly go ruthless and kill every mage even the innocents?  Further, if not a mage do you kill your own sister, even though you know in your heart she's not a blood mage? 

Ah, but you ignore one HUGE difference that makes it ENTIRELY different.
In origins you didn't have to side with anyone. And there was often a "third option" for the situations.
Further, yes, there is a culminating end point in Origins, but the way to get there can be greatly varried in the order, result, and even going there in the first place is only required for some of them.
In DA2, however, there isn't just the required end point, there are required end points throughout the story.

This is why DA2 is linear, sure the little side quests can be done in any order, but the bulk of the story HAS to be done in a single, unchanging way. And every play through, it will ALWAYS play out the same way. Always.
Origins is less linear, due to the branching paths that you can take to reach the end of killing Urthemiel. Sure, technically it's "linear" too because you have to do *some* of these main plot points in order to progress the story... but ALL of the plot hubs in Origins (Redcliffe, Orzammar, the Dalish, Andraste's Ashes, the Landsmeet, etc) ALL have different outcomes. By having these different outcomes, there is a feel of less linearity and it adds to replay value for a great many of people.
In DA2, ALL plot hubs turn out the EXACT same way, with the exception of one. And that's the Qunari Invasion at the end of Act 2, I think the fact that this act ends in so many different ways, is why so many consider this to be the best act in the game, storywise.

So yes, your point that the endings of each (and pretty much ALL video games) are going to end with you slaying the "Big Bad" is true... but saying that there is the same lack of freedom in Origins is just plain wrong.

[Fast Jimmy]

FaeQueenCory wrote...

Ah, but you ignore one HUGE difference that makes it ENTIRELY different.
In origins you didn't have to side with anyone. And there was often a "third option" for the situations.
Further, yes, there is a culminating end point in Origins, but the way to get there can be greatly varried in the order, result, and even going there in the first place is only required for some of them.
In DA2, however, there isn't just the required end point, there are required end points throughout the story.

This is why DA2 is linear, sure the little side quests can be done in any order, but the bulk of the story HAS to be done in a single, unchanging way. And every play through, it will ALWAYS play out the same way. Always.
Origins is less linear, due to the branching paths that you can take to reach the end of killing Urthemiel. Sure, technically it's "linear" too because you have to do *some* of these main plot points in order to progress the story... but ALL of the plot hubs in Origins (Redcliffe, Orzammar, the Dalish, Andraste's Ashes, the Landsmeet, etc) ALL have different outcomes. By having these different outcomes, there is a feel of less linearity and it adds to replay value for a great many of people.
In DA2, ALL plot hubs turn out the EXACT same way, with the exception of one. And that's the Qunari Invasion at the end of Act 2, I think the fact that this act ends in so many different ways, is why so many consider this to be the best act in the game, storywise.

So yes, your point that the endings of each (and pretty much ALL video games) are going to end with you slaying the "Big Bad" is true... but saying that there is the same lack of freedom in Origins is just plain wrong.

Exactly. People say "DAO doesn't change at all. No matter what, you save the Arl, you call the Landsmeet, you fight the Archdemon. DA2 is just more of the same."

I couldn't disagree more. While the main story is the same, there are a ton of choices, both major and minor, that affect the ending. And these changes are more than one line changes, like the Templar/Mage choice. 

Major plot choices that affect the ending of DAO:

Choice of king/queen.
Choice of MARRYING said king/queen
Choice of the Dark Ritual
Choice of who lands the final blow
Choice of sparing Loghain/sparing the other heir

In order to unlock some of these endings, you had to have the correct Origin, the correct dialogue and have the highest approval rating. 

Not to mention the myriad of small little "details" endings that deal with companions, side quests and small decisions.

In DA2, there are only two options that affect the ending: Mage/Templar and your LI. That's it. 

Have you ever heard the term "all talk, no action?" That's a description of any and all DA2 decisions. It leads to other dialogue, that's it. And maybe locks/unlocks a character. If it doesn't affect future dialogue, gameplay or (Maker forbid) something to do with the ending itself, than what's the point?

That's why I say DA2 has significantly lower replay value than DAO. Its because DAO actually thought about what your decions would mean later on down the line, while DA2 just says "here's your choice... okay one or two lines of dialogue immediately following that choice and... that's it!" For a game that encompases ten years worth of time, it doesn't seem to understand how choices can impact time.

[BubbleDncr]

I played Origins 4 times, and while there's still some story outcomes I haven't gotten (ie, I have no version where Alistair kills the archdemon, or one where Alistair is with the Grey Wardens at the end), I probably won't play it again to try and get those.

And that pretty much worked out as, I had my first playthrough, and then almost immediatly did a 2nd playthrough. Then right before DA2 came out, I did a 3rd playthrough, and after DA2 came out, I did a 4th playthrough to cover story items I thought were important that I hadn't done before.

For DA2, I did my first playthough, and immediatly followed with my second playthrough. Waited a couple months, and started my 3rd playthrough. Decided to hold off on finishing the 3rd playthrough (I'm right at the end) so that if any more DLC comes out, I can still do it during the storyline. Meanwhile, started my fourth playthrough, then forced myself to stop playing so that I could play future dlc's in instances other than right before the end of the game, and also just so I could play my 4th playthrough after DA3 came out, just like I did with my fourth playthrough of Origins. I feel limited in my number of playthroughs because of the number or Origins imports I have.

So to me, DA2 has a higher replay value than Origns. Not because of the various endings you can get, or the different decisions you can make during quests: I admit, after 2 playthoughs of DA2, I covered about all the various decisions you could make, cos typically you're only given 2 options. Whereas in Origins, I was still making different decisions up until my 4th playthrough.

The reason DA2 has higher replay value, to me, is because of your companions. I want to see what each of my companions react to certain quests. I want to see how they all treat me with max friendship and max rivalry. I'm three playthroughs in, and I still only have experienced friendship romances.

Not to mention just wanting to try out each class.

[Realmzmaster]

Enurale wrote...

Thanks guys for comments, we have same expectations generally, everyone can see this, who is a real PRG player, i have hope about Bioware's reaction...

Please Bioware, give our game to us...

And one more wish for DA3: DA:O achievement graphics and graphic tab (in the main menu) far better than DA2. I played last two walkthroughts for achievements. Players in need of reasons, for playing multiple walkthroughts. Like achievements, different specced and customized characters and explarations and different game starts/ends and different talkings and RPG elements.

Who is a real RPG player? You mean all the rest are fakes? What is your definition of a real RPG player? I have been roleplaying since Chainmail and playing cRpgs since Akalabeth by Richard Garriott for California Pacific Computer Company  and Wizardry by SirTech back in 1980. I like DA2 and enjoyed my playthroughs.

It has nothing to do with who and who is not a real RPG player. It boils down to waht you are looking for in the game. What are your expectations. I am often reminded that one man's trash is another man's treasure. Each gamer gets to decide what the game is to them.

What you mean is Bioware give me the game I want to play. Well what you want and what I want can be entirely two different games.

[TEWR]

In regards to the main story, I can't replay it for that. Too many facepalm moments. But I replay it for other reasons.

Merrill's always the number 1 reason.

Stanley Woo wrote...

I would say that if you played it twice, the replay value was there. Maybe not enough to replay it more than once, but enough that you did replay it.

While the game may have been replayed twice, it's clear that the OP replayed it to see if there were enough significant differences within the narrative that would affect only the narrative to constitute being interested again.

There wasn't.

As such, the game has very little replay value for those who enjoy a story where choices and consequences can be made and seen respectively.

That's a big problem with DAII, for me and many others.

Jessica Merizan wrote...

I think this is interesting because I'm hearing a lot of different reasons why people did or did not replay the game from achievement hunting to changing combat styles to story. 

We all know the overall "story" of the game is largely unchanging. However, I think it's not changes in story that affect replay value, but rather the level of immersion that goes into the plot. Hawke to me has kind of Harry Potter syndrome, a central character for whom a lot happens and is important to the overall story and theme, but generally is a reactive character. Things happen to Harry/Hawke and the character reacts to this.

1) Comparing a film's protagonist to a video game's isn't a very good comparison because of the significant difference in that we control the VG's protagonist and we can't control the film's protagonist.

2) I'm pretty sure that Harry Potter is able to clearly demonstrate proactive moments. 

Off the top of my head, I can't name any. Haven't seen the movies or read the books for years now. But let's see. The definition of proactive is anticipating a problem and working to prevent it.

Harry sees a problem with the Philosopher's Stone being at risk, and takes risks to himself and Gryffindor to find out information on it.

He reacts to the Troll, but sees the Troll as being part of a larger scheme against the Philosopher's Stone. Thus he anticipates a problem and works to prevent it.

and ultimately succeeds.

Whereas the Warden was very proactive and essential to grand changes in Ferelden. Personally I can see the value of both as different types of protagonists and still interesting to experience in their own way.

The Warden was actually very reactive.

• He reacts to the Blight
  
  
• He reacts to the events at Ostagar.
  
  
• He reacts to Loghain's poisoning of Eamon
  
  
• He reacts to Orzammar's crisis.

Those are only some. He was very reactive with only a few moments of proactivity. Even the idea of the treaties is never his. It was either Alistair's or Flemeth's, depending on the dialogue choices made.

So I guess for me it becomes a question of story vs plot and how much I want to put into changing the minor plot details that lead to the same eventual ending. Definitely worth at least one play in my opinion as it was still one of the best games that came out in the first half of this year. Replay value however, as we've seen, definitely depends on how you game.

For me, the game's story could've changed significantly without affecting the major endings of things.



SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!





Thrask's rebellion is one example. I find that BSC's problems can be traced back to Act of Mercy. Decimus attacks a party that can have as many as 3 mages -- and personally I think both siblings should've lived since their deaths were unnecessary -- without first ascertaining whose side they're on. He even admits that he doesn't care.

This is a flaw, as it makes him look like an idiot when the game previously established with Anders -- and later with Grace -- that mages can sense other mages. It makes Hawke look like an idiot because he can't even attempt to say he's on their side.

Then, one can let Grace go only for her to get captured and blame Hawke.

This is another flaw. It makes her look incompetent and Hawke isn't even able to attempt to clear the air with her. He didn't betray her. He can't even tell her that immediately after she was set loose and Thrask lied, Meredith sent two dozen Templars after her.

Three years later, Grace attacks Hawke for a very poorly contrived reason. She says that Hawke killed the man she loved. That man attacked Hawke! She saw him do it and heard him say he didn't care about who they were!

No, there are ways the narrative could've changed without having Hawke be world changing. It could've been Kirkwall changing, but not world-shattering.

For a from the get-go pro-mage Hawke, Hawke should be able to clearly establish to Decimus in Act of Mercy that he's on the mages' side. Perhaps then Chantry loyalist mages could try to take down Hawke. It seems fitting that Decimus -- who may have burned down the Circle so that the mages could escape -- would have had Chantry Loyalists following him so that they could establish a rapport with the Templars of Kirkwall.

So Hawke kills them. Decimus and Grace and the other mages are then grateful and then ask for Hawke to help them evade capture. Hawke can either lie to Kerras or kill him and his cronies. Either way, the Templars are gone.

This has Decimus acting as a sane and intelligent person who clearly made overtures to find out whose side Hawke was on. A pro-Templar Hawke could fight Decimus in the way DAII gave us. But anyway...

3 years later Decimus and Grace and his other mages would be captured. But Hawke could talk to him and he'd say that he was grateful for his aid and he doesn't blame Hawke. Rather, he's angry at the Chantry loyalist mages that were still in his group. That is to say that he either had a few more Chantry Loyalists that didn't try and fight Hawke or that he picked up a few Kirkwall Loyalist spies in his group without knowing. Or both.

But this has him not blaming Hawke for his own failings. This means that he is again an intelligent and sane person. The player could however change allegiances and make a comment that says he's changed to being a Templar supporter after seeing all the Abominations and sinister maleficarum that plague Kirkwall's maze-like streets. But this is just for a consistently pro-mage Hawke.

3 years later Decimus and Grace would join Thrask's rebellion. Hawke would investigate them, not get attacked by any -- because the whole "We know you're spying for Orsino!" is just a huge facepalm moment because Orsino is pro-mage/anti-Meredith and Thrask comments on Hawke being a supporter of the First Enchanter prior to BSC --, and be able to say that he supports the rebellion and wants them to continue what they're doing.

But Hawke could say that Samson may be leading the Templars to them so they need to get out. He could say that they should stage a false fight. A scene where it seems like the Champion was overwhelmed by superior numbers and the rebellion runs off in one direction. Hawke could then point the Templars in a different direction.

Come endgame, the rebellion could be seen helping mages -- both children and adults -- escape the RoA and fighting off Meredith's cronies.

But this really addresses story flaws and not Hawke being a reactive idiot.

For that, I will simply say that Hawke should've been able to join or crush the Mage Underground and become its leader or its destroyer. Either way, Templar authority would be considerably undermined because Hawke either made sure the mages were free and the Templars couldn't do their job or showed the populus that the Templars couldn't do their job without the aid of a citizen.

Oh and this is all trademarked into my Dragon Age II fanfic. Well... sort of trademarked. Bioware's universe, my ideas for Hawke's story.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 novembre 2011 - 06:30 .