232 réponses à ce sujet

[Kail Ashton]

It's abit hit & miss, the companions make it more replay friendly, but the overall story plays out almost exactly the same regardless of what you choose and then you're doing the same exact stuff in the same exact dungeons fighting the same exact enemies over & over

Never a good sign when you have to pace the DLC so you don't do all the fun stuff too early and get stuck with the same old vanilla game, weird as it is to say, Awakening was more choice friendly than the entirity of DA2, good amount of stuff changed (especialy toward the end) based on choices you'd make

[AnnaBananaBamBamBoo]

Who wants a replay when you can play the same run through forever. Skyrim knocks the socks off anything put out by Bioware recently. Bioware better get on the ball if they want my gaming buck (3.5 million Skyrim copies sold in the first 48 hours! DA2 still hasn't sold 3.5 million copies period).

[Carmen_Willow]

I replayed a lot rolling up different builds. And I never got tired of my companions. I miss Bioware's companion company in Skyrim. It's a fun game but they still don't come up to the level of friendship/rivalry companions that Bioware offers.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

FieryDove wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...

For me, the lack of acknowledgement of imported DAO choices kinds spoiled the replay value. Sure, Alistair shows up in different contexts but the only Wardens that get more than a passing reference are the Dalish and Amell mage. Choosing Harrowmont gets no mention at all. No acknowledgement that the Warden was a dwarf or city elf, or Cousland for those origins.

I had 6 completed DAO games to import. I only got to import 3. There wasnt any point in doing the others.

Warden Alistair never acknowledged my warden as his Li, Zevran didn't even mention my warden at all...and jumped Izzy. It kind of all ended up pointless...importing that is.

They should make a tool to fix import bugs and/or generate save games. Oh well.

I wonder if DA3 will have any references/cameo's from DAO/DA2. If so I would think fixing these would be worthwhile...yes?

As far as replaybility...I justed started a new DAO run. EPIC. The music, the details *no one* ever notices or needs to take away from the *action*...all of it. If the import bugs were fixed (And Legacy patched -ha snuck that in) there would be more replayabilty in DA2. As it stands, not so much.

Yeah I hear you. Import bugs and mediocre handling of cameos is another reason not to bother importing my other saves.

If you had a Cousland Warden who married Alistair he does mention it, assuming he was King, but there were so many other outcomes there.

[Fast Jimmy]

AnnaBananaBamBamBoo wrote...

Who wants a replay when you can play the same run through forever. Skyrim knocks the socks off anything put out by Bioware recently. Bioware better get on the ball if they want my gaming buck (3.5 million Skyrim copies sold in the first 48 hours! DA2 still hasn't sold 3.5 million copies period).

I think Skyrim has some pretty weak plot in comparison to the Dragon Age franchise. However, the IDEAS for quests are so far beyond awesome and off the scale, that you don't care that your nameless, silent hero doesn't care about the world at large and just loves finding the random things to do. For instnace,getting into a drinking game match at a bar, blacking out, waking up on the other side of the continent and trying to piece together your night (a quest in Skyrim that TOTALLY rocks) is twenty times more interesting to me than going into the mines with Hawke to find treasure. I can go into a dozen mines to find treasure in Skyrim. And I could do a million and one quests that all have unique dialogue, instead of "you found a piece of trash in a cave? Wow, you magically knew it was mine! Here's a gold piece!"

People can say its the framed narrative, or the lack of choice, or about how little their previous actions in DAO played into how the world was shaped... in the end, it just comes down to the fact that there are only about two or three things in the entire game that made me feel like I was getting into some seriously awesome territory for a quest. People are loving Skyrim because almost every quest makes you feel like you are part of a story that could take a turn for the crazy at any given minute. DA2 made me feel like I could predict things to a tee before I even got started.

[Flashing Steel]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

AnnaBananaBamBamBoo wrote...

Who wants a replay when you can play the same run through forever. Skyrim knocks the socks off anything put out by Bioware recently. Bioware better get on the ball if they want my gaming buck (3.5 million Skyrim copies sold in the first 48 hours! DA2 still hasn't sold 3.5 million copies period).

I think Skyrim has some pretty weak plot in comparison to the Dragon Age franchise. However, the IDEAS for quests are so far beyond awesome and off the scale, that you don't care that your nameless, silent hero doesn't care about the world at large and just loves finding the random things to do. For instnace,getting into a drinking game match at a bar, blacking out, waking up on the other side of the continent and trying to piece together your night (a quest in Skyrim that TOTALLY rocks) is twenty times more interesting to me than going into the mines with Hawke to find treasure. I can go into a dozen mines to find treasure in Skyrim. And I could do a million and one quests that all have unique dialogue, instead of "you found a piece of trash in a cave? Wow, you magically knew it was mine! Here's a gold piece!"

People can say its the framed narrative, or the lack of choice, or about how little their previous actions in DAO played into how the world was shaped... in the end, it just comes down to the fact that there are only about two or three things in the entire game that made me feel like I was getting into some seriously awesome territory for a quest. People are loving Skyrim because almost every quest makes you feel like you are part of a story that could take a turn for the crazy at any given minute. DA2 made me feel like I could predict things to a tee before I even got started.

+1 for sure.

[Realmzmaster]

The plot and story of Skyrim pales in comparison to the Dragon Age franchise (both DAO and DA2). Skyrim pales in comparison to the plot and story in Morrowind. It is better than the plot and story of Oblivion. TES games are great if you like open exploration sandbox worlds.
TES games are not great if you are looking for story driven party centered games. Bioware's niche is party based story driven games. The interaction between the characters in the party and how you can affect their lives on a mirco or macro level.
Note that I have played and own all of the TES games for the PC. I have been playing them since Arena. The games are good if I want to explore a world in the vein of Hack, Rogue or Temple of Apshai. TES games will never be known for their story and plot except for Morrowind.

[Kail Ashton]

On the Skyrim offtopic: it's not quite my cup of tea, the combats soooooooooo boring and never a huge fan of isolation in these games, the companions so far are exceptionaly dull (but least there;'s alot of em to swap thru) the Fallout games by bethsada worked better for me as the range stuff works best, melee tends to boil down to "flail about trying to strafe/block while clumsily poking this guy more times then he can poke you"

Kingdoms of Alamar on the otherhand so far is more like if dragon age & skyrim had a child and that child was taught how to fight by tri-ace (makes of the best battle systems in RPGs hands down)

Modifié par Kail Ashton, 25 novembre 2011 - 06:14 .

[Varus Torvyn]

Magnus_The_Red wrote...

I have completed this game twice, once siding with the mages and the other with the templars. And now no matter how many times I try I just can't bring myself to complete it again. Most of the time I get past act 1, get bored and then give up.
Unlike its predecessor DA2 has little to no variations in its quests and overall story. In Origins sure certain things had to have happen but at least they often had different routes and/or outcomes. But in DA2 this is not the case. No matter what you say and do almost everything has the exact same outcome.

I know DA2 tried to tell a different kind of story from Origins but it just didn't work for me.
While Origins did not have the most originality, it did it well and so was a great game overall. DA2 meanwhile tried to do something new but it just fell flat and so overall it turned out to be a very mediocre game with almost no replay value.

I've played through at least a dozen times. First thing I did after taking either side was to change up some of my dialog responses. You also have different classes and gender.

Magnus, some of your responses change the way quests finish, as well as closing some side-quests and opening others.

In addition, when new DLCs were released, more often than not I had completed my last game and needed to start a new one to play the new DLC.

And one thing you're forgetting - No Level Cap - I've gotten Hawke up to Level 29 now that I've purchased Legacy and MotA.

You can't go over Level 25 in Origins unless you boot Awakening.

Modifié par Varus Torvyn, 25 novembre 2011 - 08:06 .

[Varus Torvyn]

Kail Ashton wrote...

On the Skyrim offtopic: it's not quite my cup of tea, the combats soooooooooo boring and never a huge fan of isolation in these games, the companions so far are exceptionaly dull (but least there;'s alot of em to swap thru) the Fallout games by bethsada worked better for me as the range stuff works best, melee tends to boil down to "flail about trying to strafe/block while clumsily poking this guy more times then he can poke you"

Kingdoms of Alamar on the otherhand so far is more like if dragon age & skyrim had a child and that child was taught how to fight by tri-ace (makes of the best battle systems in RPGs hands down)

I have Oblivion, but I did not bother purchasing Skyrim.

Why? Levelling isn't as good as BioWare's is, Bethesda only made it in DX 9 for the PC (BioWare has DX 11), Todd Howard said Skyrim would look the same as consoles on the PC.

Plus I didn't want to buy another Bethesda game and have to wait on community mods to fix the bugs. We needed 3 community mods to fix > 10,000 bugs Bethesda left in Oblivion.

That's another credit for BioWare - they make patches fast and get things fixed.

[Kail Ashton]

Varus Torvyn wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

On the Skyrim offtopic: it's not quite my cup of tea, the combats soooooooooo boring and never a huge fan of isolation in these games, the companions so far are exceptionaly dull (but least there;'s alot of em to swap thru) the Fallout games by bethsada worked better for me as the range stuff works best, melee tends to boil down to "flail about trying to strafe/block while clumsily poking this guy more times then he can poke you"

Kingdoms of Alamar on the otherhand so far is more like if dragon age & skyrim had a child and that child was taught how to fight by tri-ace (makes of the best battle systems in RPGs hands down)

I have Oblivion, but I did not bother purchasing Skyrim.

Why? Levelling isn't as good as BioWare's is, Bethesda only made it in DX 9 for the PC (BioWare has DX 11), Todd Howard said Skyrim would look the same as consoles on the PC.

Plus I didn't want to buy another Bethesda game and have to wait on community mods to fix the bugs. We needed 3 community mods to fix > 10,000 bugs Bethesda left in Oblivion.

That's another credit for BioWare - they make patches fast and get things fixed.

Hum....nothing you said related to anything you quoted from me, so i don't even....

[furryrage59]

Skyrim anhiliates DA:2 and went a large way to restoring my shaken faith in good quality games being made anymore.

The hurt still hasn't gone away (shows the court where DA:2 touched me).

[LadyVaJedi]

I hate to say it Furryrages but I agree with you here. Skyrim rocks.. I told my husband that This is what DA2 should have been. I mean like Skyrim has DRAGONS!! I mean dragons.

[vania z]

I was not able to do second playthrough, stoped before doing expedition. With da:o I did two full playthroughs and 2 half way. Have not played awakening though:(

[vania z]

LadyVaJedi wrote...

I hate to say it Furryrages but I agree with you here. Skyrim rocks.. I told my husband that This is what DA2 should have been. I mean like Skyrim has DRAGONS!! I mean dragons.

Why should story-based rpg have weak story and huge exploration value? There is nothing in skyrim except mountains, fields and waterfalls. Combat is pretty lame, there is no decent story. AI is, well... artificial idiot:)

[Teddie Sage]

vania z wrote...

LadyVaJedi wrote...

I hate to say it Furryrages but I agree with you here. Skyrim rocks.. I told my husband that This is what DA2 should have been. I mean like Skyrim has DRAGONS!! I mean dragons.

Why should story-based rpg have weak story and huge exploration value? There is nothing in skyrim except mountains, fields and waterfalls. Combat is pretty lame, there is no decent story. AI is, well... artificial idiot:)

Skyrim is better when you have no companion around. Some quests were interesting, but after 75 hours of playing, I found the world to be shallow and less fun than Oblivion. I'm also quite annoyed by the fact I the dragons circle around in the sky and I can't reach them because I'm a melee-type character. Skyrim has a lot of flaws, it's still fun, but it's not revolutionary.

[Aaleel]

After playing Skyrim and the Witcher 2 one thing I will say is that though I like the diversity in my games. Open world exploration, story focused, etc. I can't give Bioware a pass on level design anymore. I can no longer believe what we saw in DA2 was the best they can do, especially since they only really had one city to worry about.

They need to do better in that regard, no more lifeless, empty cities. The repetitive areas was one the reasons why the game little replay value. The thought of running around lifeless Kirkwall, and through that same cave over and over again I just couldn't stomach.

[MagmaSaiyan]

Aaleel wrote...

After playing Skyrim and the Witcher 2 one thing I will say is that though I like the diversity in my games. Open world exploration, story focused, etc. I can't give Bioware a pass on level design anymore. I can no longer believe what we saw in DA2 was the best they can do, especially since they only really had one city to worry about.

They need to do better in that regard, no more lifeless, empty cities. The repetitive areas was one the reasons why the game little replay value. The thought of running around lifeless Kirkwall, and through that same cave over and over again I just couldn't stomach.

well with its sort time span you cant expect to see a very well detailed city, even though i thought it was great and the wounded coast was amazing too. and lifeless city? i think thought there was enough people around and about probably about the same as Denerim

[Realmzmaster]

Yes, DA2 repetitive environments were bad, but at least there was a point in going into them. The only reason to go into most of Skyrims dungeons is to explore and find some goodies. Most of them have nothing to do with the main plot.
Which shows the difference between a open exploration sandbox world and a story driven world.

Now before any goes DA2 apologist, Let be known that I have played all the TES games. Morrowind is my favorite and is hands down better than Skyrim or Oblivion because it had a better story and plot. This baffled me because Todd Howard was executive producer and Ken Rolston was lead designer for all three. I read the writers credits. The writers for each game were completely different. I guess that would happen over a 5 year period between Morrowind and Oblivion and a ten year period between Morrowind and Skyrim.

The point is instead of getting better with plot and story TES games have declined.
The writing in DA2 was not as good as DAO, but it still beats TES games except for Morrowind.
Yes I just recently replayed all the TES games. (DosBox is a wonderful program.) Morrowind stands heads and shoulders above the other TES games and equal to DAO.

Remember everything written here is my opinion. YMMV.

As far as DA2 having little replay value that is in the eye of the gamer. I am on my eighth playthrough and still having fun. Well back to DA2.

[Aaleel]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Yes, DA2 repetitive environments were bad, but at least there was a point in going into them. The only reason to go into most of Skyrims dungeons is to explore and find some goodies. Most of them have nothing to do with the main plot.
Which shows the difference between a open exploration sandbox world and a story driven world.

Well that depends, I thought some of the side quests were better written than the main one so far.  The Dark Brotherhood string for example.

But that wasn't really my point, I don't want DA to be Skyrim or The Witcher, I like some diversity in my games.  My point was that what we saw in DA2 cannot be the best they could do, I just can't be, they only had one city to worry about, one, it should have been outstanding. To me the best designed area in either game, sadly was the first common area you got to and that was Ostagar.  A lot of ambient sounds, a lot of things going on, mages practicing, chantry sisters, archers practicing, the captain talking to his men about darkspawn, the kennel, etc.  Also it was one large continuos area on both sides of the bridge.

As far as the story in DA2, if the surroundings are going to be stagnant and never changing, and then there's no exploration on top of that.  The story has to be outstanding to make up for the other shortcomings, and it wasn't.  Then add the fact that I really didn't care for the encounter mechanics (waves) or the combat the replay value was very low.


Everytime I play Origins I just stand here for a moment taking in the atmosphere while the flags blow in the wind.

[Wintersembrace]

Played once never gone back to it since and and while i did enjoy some aspects of DA.2 i just cant bring myself back to playing it or spending the money on the dlc.
One small thing that bugged me why should my starting class be the factor for which sibling lives or dies now if there was a option to pick one of them out the way that would have been cool.
why even have a family if every thing you work for leads to the same outcome, and the reused area's omg that was just yep.. i did like the armor that your companions had but disliked that i could not change it over. its like that just lots of little thing that stop me from playing it ever again

[Realmzmaster]

@Aaleel

The Dark Brotherhood side quests are good, but that group originated from a group in Morrowind called the Morag Tong. The point is the side quests should not be better than the main plot. The side quests should enhance the main plot.

I also do not think that DA2 was the best Bioware could do. But when it comes to cities look at DAO especially Denerim and Orzammar, they are not exactly buzzing with excitement. In fact no body really moves anywhere unless a quest is involved. Brother Burkle only moves after you convince the Shaperate to allow him to open a Chantry. Adal Helmi stays in the same spot and her sister Nerva moves from the commons and then stays in the same spot throughout the entire game.

All the cities in DAO are stagnant .You have templars that never move. If you kill Ser Landry in the Honor Bound quest his bones never disappear much like what happens in Fenris mansion. So I am not surprised to see very little change in Kirkwall. Bioware has done it in all their games.

As far as banter that occurs in Kirkwall also. You can hear people talking and asking things like Have you seen my dog? Also if you have Aveline in the party at the beginning she will be addressed as Guardsmen Aveline. After she becomes Captain of the Guard she is addressed by that title from bystanders.
If you go down to the docks you will hear certain characters cursing her name. Even Hawke get talked about as he/she passes by. So the city is not dead to me. It no deader than some of the other ones.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 26 novembre 2011 - 05:11 .

[Tuleron]

Magnus_The_Red wrote...

I have completed this game twice, once siding with the mages and the other with the templars. And now no matter how many times I try I just can't bring myself to complete it again. Most of the time I get past act 1, get bored and then give up.
Unlike its predecessor DA2 has little to no variations in its quests and overall story. In Origins sure certain things had to have happen but at least they often had different routes and/or outcomes. But in DA2 this is not the case. No matter what you say and do almost everything has the exact same outcome.

I know DA2 tried to tell a different kind of story from Origins but it just didn't work for me.
While Origins did not have the most originality, it did it well and so was a great game overall. DA2 meanwhile tried to do something new but it just fell flat and so overall it turned out to be a very mediocre game with almost no replay value.

Why? Because it's linear.
Why it's linear? 'Cause Bioware listen to EA and do crappy games .
Good to see how a company with experiene can mess things up to the level that the people don't wnt to buy theire games anymore. GOOD JOB GUYS :ThumbUp:

[HiroVoid]

Realmzmaster wrote...
I also do not think that DA2 was the best Bioware could do. But when it comes to cities look at DAO especially Denerim and Orzammar, they are not exactly buzzing with excitement. In fact no body really moves anywhere unless a quest is involved. Brother Burkle only moves after you convince the Shaperate to allow him to open a Chantry. Adal Helmi stays in the same spot and her sister Nerva moves from the commons and then stays in the same spot throughout the entire game.

All the cities in DAO are stagnant .You have templars that never move. If you kill Ser Landry in the Honor Bound quest his bones never disappear much like what happens in Fenris mansion. So I am not surprised to see very little change in Kirkwall. Bioware has done it in all their games.

As far as banter that occurs in Kirkwall also. You can hear people talking and asking things like Have you seen my dog? Also if you have Aveline in the party at the beginning she will be addressed as Guardsmen Aveline. After she becomes Captain of the Guard she is addressed by that title from bystanders.
If you go down to the docks you will hear certain characters cursing her name. Even Hawke get talked about as he/she passes by. So the city is not dead to me. It no deader than some of the other ones.

The problem is saying Dragon Age: Origins didn't have lively cities doesn't excuse Dragon Age 2 from it.  Especially since the focus is on Kirkwall.  It's also pretty bad when I can say Clock Town in Majora's Mask on the nintendo 64 changed more in ten minutes than Kirkwall does in ten years.

[Flashing Steel]

 I definitely agree with the sentiments that Kirkwall was lifeless. I could only speculate as to why, perheps we could get some dev input on this matter? 

I too understand the frustration as they did only have one major city, so I think to myself, why did they not put substantial thought into the people, movement, the environment changing over the years, the people were still doing the same mundane tasks over the 7 years of gameplay (again, some dev input would be nice?). I am also curious to know if the developers look at other games such as assassins creed and observe what they have accomplished, I am not saying an AC city should be implimented into DA3 but AC's cities are a fine and brilliant example of what a city should look like!

At the beginning of DA2 when the player is tasked with getting into Kirkwall, i remember being told 'the city is full' i remember being given the impression the city was jam-packed, and from this i was excited to roam around inside. Alas, upon seeing the inside of the city i was severely disappointed.