1381 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

When did he do or authorize that?

Certainly not Pragia.

He was kidnapping children and sending them to Pragia as test subjects. Kinda have a hard time believing he didn't have at least an inkling of the nature of the experimentations. I also find it suspicious that his cleanup crew conveniently left behind vids attesting to his ignorance of the goings-on there.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nightwriter wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

When did he do or authorize that?

Certainly not Pragia.

He was kidnapping children and sending them to Pragia as test subjects. Kinda have a hard time believing he didn't have at least an inkling of the nature of the experimentations.

There are tests, and then there's tests. Don't confuse scope and scale without an actual basis to.

I also find it suspicious that his cleanup crew conveniently left behind vids attesting to his ignorance of the goings-on there.

I suppose it was also convenient that the salvage team that was already there left it alone and intact, right?

It was also suspiciously convenient that Jacob's father left the VI functional just outside the ship.

It was also suspiciously convenient that Miranda's loyalty mission was linear corridors to finding Niket.

It was also suspiciously convenient that Legion has zero outside sources of information to collaborate with his claims as to the nature of the Geth.

It was also suspiciously convenient that Shepard took out the entire team right before the Collectors attacked.


Rather than focus on how 'suspiciously convenient' plot-twists come to our notice in a scripted narative, shouldn't you instead focus on the actual theme of the mission... that Jack didn't know half of what she thought she knew?

You hardly need the data recordings to realize that.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 19 novembre 2011 - 05:18 .

[RiouHotaru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

When did he do or authorize that?

Certainly not Pragia.

He was kidnapping children and sending them to Pragia as test subjects. Kinda have a hard time believing he didn't have at least an inkling of the nature of the experimentations.

There are tests, and then there's tests. Don't confuse scope and scale without an actual basis to.

I also find it suspicious that his cleanup crew conveniently left behind vids attesting to his ignorance of the goings-on there.

I suppose it was also convenient that the salvage team that was already there left it alone and intact, right?

It was also suspiciously convenient that Jacob's father left the VI functional just outside the ship.

It was also suspiciously convenient that Miranda's loyalty mission was linear corridors to finding Niket.

It was also suspiciously convenient that Legion has zero outside sources of information to collaborate with his claims as to the nature of the Geth.

It was also suspiciously convenient that Shepard took out the entire team right before the Collectors attacked.


Rather than focus on how 'suspiciously convenient' plot-twists come to our notice in a scripted narative, shouldn't you instead focus on the actual theme of the mission... that Jack didn't know half of what she thought she knew?

You hardly need the data recordings to realize that.

Even assuming he didn't know they were torturing children, they were still KIDNAPPING them, or buying them from batarians.  At some point someone in accounting would've noticed those transactions and red flags should've popped up.

I don't need to know if I even want to bring up Retribution and the length TIM goes to screw over Grayson.

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, let's ignore the atrocities just because you don't like them/think it's "bad writing" (weakest excuse I've ever seen, by the way).

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, because Cerberus was so sympathetic before ME3. Given what they've done and what their goal is, it's pretty consistent. But I guess that all those things TIM says about how their actions are justifiable because of what they're trying to achieve are only valid when they're beneficial towards his fanboys.

Also, stop pretending that you know how I see things and that you're somehow have a superior view.

It only makes you look pathetic when it's not going your way.

[Siegdrifa]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, because Cerberus was so sympathetic before ME3.

Clearly they were as they have many supporters.

It's not because they have supporters that they are sympatic ... this is 2 different things.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 19 novembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Jarys]

The problem is, as was mentioned, that Cerberus is being called 'that white supremacist group' by everyone else. The fact of the matter is, without being too political about it at least, that 'that group' has legitimate arguments. Many people believe that it is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven - being that as long as they are in power, they are better off than if they were serving. Who needs utopia when you can have your own private paradise sort of deal. As long as greed and powermongering are a major facet of any society, there will be groups that demand more than their fair share. In regards to the legitimate arguments - humanity is essentially equal in almost all ways with the other races. The tech is all the same, the militaries are similar sizes, the base populations are close. So when certain people saw all this equality, and also saw all the 'nah, your too young/ignorant/new to do this this and this,' there was a hostile reaction.

Can't say I blame them, a similar group could be useful in our society as a power balance today - as the Occupy movements have shown, greed begets greed, and when the greedy are in power, it only gets worse (in the case of this thread, everyone but 'the new guys' having access to citadel council information and whatnot).

[Fixers0]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...


It's not because they have supporters that they are sympatic ... this is 2 different things.

How so? Is there some objective definition of whether Cerberus is sympathetic or not? They were sympathetic to me in ME2 and in Retribution.

There not very sympathetic in ME3 though.

[didymos1120]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...


They're not very sympathetic in ME3 though.

ME3 is a big pile of tricerotops dung. 

Didn't you declare you were through with the forums?

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Why were you banned Saphra?

[Dean_the_Young]

RiouHotaru wrote...


Even assuming he didn't know they were torturing children, they were still KIDNAPPING them, or buying them from batarians.  At some point someone in accounting would've noticed those transactions and red flags should've popped up.

Why?

Simply because Cerberus did not sanction the greatest crimes and the scope of Pragia doesn't mean they weren't willing to sanction lesser crimes, for which they can certainly be held to blame for. It wasn't the nature of the procurement that was the issue that the project was trying to hide.

The red flag that did go up (which the project was trying to cover up by falsifying the records sent to TIM) was the number of children they were going through.

I don't need to know if I even want to bring up Retribution and the length TIM goes to screw over Grayson.

Mixing revenge and business, yes. It wasn't 'for the lols' or casual cruelty: it was both in response to a specific betrayal (Grayson's own) and for a specific purpose. What suggests that was his intent with Pragia?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 19 novembre 2011 - 01:46 .

[Swampthing500]

Jarys wrote...

The problem is, as was mentioned, that Cerberus is being called 'that white supremacist group' by everyone else. The fact of the matter is, without being too political about it at least, that 'that group' has legitimate arguments. Many people believe that it is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven - being that as long as they are in power, they are better off than if they were serving. Who needs utopia when you can have your own private paradise sort of deal. As long as greed and powermongering are a major facet of any society, there will be groups that demand more than their fair share. In regards to the legitimate arguments - humanity is essentially equal in almost all ways with the other races. The tech is all the same, the militaries are similar sizes, the base populations are close. So when certain people saw all this equality, and also saw all the 'nah, your too young/ignorant/new to do this this and this,' there was a hostile reaction.

Can't say I blame them, a similar group could be useful in our society as a power balance today - as the Occupy movements have shown, greed begets greed, and when the greedy are in power, it only gets worse (in the case of this thread, everyone but 'the new guys' having access to citadel council information and whatnot).

I would be hesitant to accept the usefulness as a group that would expose me to hazardous material to see if I develop super powers, would be willing to turn me into a zombie to study the process or perform any other number of experiments.

[sponge56]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


We haven't been back to earth. How do we know just how democratic earth really is? I would guess it's probably a quasi-fascist world.

Earth's nations are still split up into countries, so we can presume that they are more or less similar to their current political leanings and inclinations (Cerberus daily news mentions stuff about the US senate and President etc).  Also the Alliance is run by a Parliament with an appointed Prime Minister, which implies strongly that it is run like a democarcy rather than an autocracy.

[Dean_the_Young]

It's the Union of North American States, actually. The USA died awhile back.

The nature of the Alliance parliament isn't clear. There are votes for Spacer seats, but we don't have any information on how the others are allocated. Do Earth-nations appoint a representative, like a UN-diplomat? Are 'earther' seats up for election?

[General User]

If the Alliance has a Parliament with a Prime Minister, does that mean that the Alliance also has a Monarchy, constitutional or otherwise, like Great Britain? Or (more probably) is the Alliance like Israel with a separate Presidency and Prime Minister?

[sponge56]

General User wrote...

If the Alliance has a Parliament with a Prime Minister, does that mean that the Alliance also has a Monarchy, constitutional or otherwise, like Great Britain? Or (more probably) is the Alliance like Israel with a separate Presidency and Prime Minister?

The Alliance probaly wouldnt even need a President, I wouldn't be suprised if it were just a Prime Minister.  In the case of Britain, it is the Prime Minister who actually holds all the power with the backing of government, the role of the Monarch is purely ceremonial (although the monarch has certain powers although they would only be used in extreme circumstances).  If the same holds true for a President it doesn't sound like the Alliance would need such a figurehead

[The_11thDoctor]

The OP knows NOTHING on ME's universe, how it works, why Cerberus exist, their cause, paid no attention to the books, comics or games and has no clue about life in general. Anyone or cause can be defended. You are very ignorant. I dont even want to waste the time explaining to you why Cerberus exist. Despite some people in Cerberus being racist or cruel, Cerberus isnt evil. Just like the Council and every alien race in ME can be racist and displays it. Your comprehension levels are clearly too low for me to waste pages breaking it down for you. I only came in here cause your ignorant title pissed me off...

Modifié par aang001, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:08 .

[sponge56]

aang001 wrote...

The OP knows NOTHING on ME's universe, how it works, why Cerberus exist, their cause, paid no attention to the books, comics or games and has no clue about life in general. Anyone or cause can be defended. You are very ignorant. I dont even want to waste the time explaining to you why Cerberus exist. Despite some people in Cerberus being racist or cruel, Cerberus isnt evil. Just like the Council and every alien race in ME can be racist and displays it. Your comprehension levels are clearly too low for me to waste pages breaking it down for you. I only came in here cause your ignorant title pissed me off...

What a lovely attack, thank you

I of course bow to your superior knowledge on everything 

Modifié par sponge56, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:20 .