1381 réponses à ce sujet

[HiroVoid]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, let's ignore the atrocities just because you don't like them/think it's "bad writing" (weakest excuse I've ever seen, by the way).

Well, the goal for the Illusive Man was to have the best and worst traits of humanity.  Do you think they accomplished that?

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It's bad writing if it doesn't explain why Cerberus does what they do. If Anderson turned out to be a serial killer wouldn't that be bad writing? I mean, it could work, but it would need to be explained damned well. I'm not opposed to Cerberus being a mandatory enemy or even them working with the Reapers, but it has to make sense. ME3 doesn't make sense.

Oh, but it does.

[CptBomBom00]

For me thing is simple they were bad in ME1&2 and now they are pretty evil in ME3, so I think Shepard needs to talk to an exorcist.

Any way what's the point of defending them, when everyone knows they are pure Evil.

[Someone With Mass]

"I worked for Cerberus when they were vigilantes helping the helpless. Now they're a little too mainstream. And evil."

[CptBomBom00]

Someone With Mass wrote...

"I worked for Cerberus when they were vigilantes helping the helpless. Now they're a little too mainstream. And evil."

They are so Evil that they need to be burnt alive:devil:.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

"I worked for Cerberus when they were vigilantes helping the helpless. Now they're a little too mainstream. And evil."

Mainstream? Sure.

Evil? If anything, what they're doing in ME3 is quite an amount of shades lighter.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 19 novembre 2011 - 09:08 .

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

"I worked for Cerberus when they were vigilantes helping the helpless. Now they're a little too mainstream. And evil."

When that happen?



Lazarus Cell doesn't count.

[Someone With Mass]

Mesina2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

"I worked for Cerberus when they were vigilantes helping the helpless. Now they're a little too mainstream. And evil."

When that happen?



Lazarus Cell doesn't count.

I don't know. You better ask *spoiler*Joker in ME3, since he's the one who says it.*spoiler*

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Oh, but it does.

No it doesn't. It doesn't explain why any of his actions were necessary and just makes him look like a lunatic.

The script is pretty clear on why he's doing what he's doing.

Also, TIM being a nutjob isn't exactly a shocking surprise.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The script is pretty clear on why he's doing what he's doing.

It's a load of tripe and he was never a nutjob before ME3.

Again with the "I don't like it, so it's ****" attitude.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm fine with TIM working with the Reapers and being an enemy, but it needs to be explained logically. It needs to be true to his character. It needs to be true to Cerberus and its goals.ME3 just pulls all of this out of nowhere and invalidates ME2 by making the entire experience one huge waste of time.

Okay, is there anything that says it's not true to what Cerberus was trying to achieve before with their attempts at creating shock troopers out of other races like the rachni or geth?

Because it just looks like a step further to me. A slightly higher ambition.

As for their army, we don't know for how long they've been secretly building it or for how long they've been planning their attacks.

[Someone With Mass]

And what makes you think you've seen it all?

[sponge56]

Saphra Deden wrote...


It's a load of tripe and he was never a nutjob before ME3.

This might not be the case so forgive me for saying, but it does seem like you think your view of what Cerberus is counts more that what Bioware's view of Cerberus is.  Bioware have shown that Cerberus can be viewed as morally grey, but ultimately a flawed and morally corrupt group.  Now ive only read a few spoilers and delibretly didnt read any of the Cerberus ones for ME3, but it does seem like Cerberus acting like tosspots again IS in keeping with their established canon

[sponge56]

Saphra Deden wrote...


Bioware is fallible just like anyone else.

However, it is Bioware's creation.  Although you may not like what they do with Cerberus because it does not go with your pre-conceptions of what Cerberus is and should do, you should at least accept the fact that they have had this story planned out and Cerberus was always going to be like this

[Patius Mehaffius]

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

This might not be the case so forgive me for saying, but it does seem like you think your view of what Cerberus is counts more that what Bioware's view of Cerberus is.

Bioware is fallible just like anyone else.

Yes, Bioware obviously doesn't have a grasp on their own creations while, you, in your infalliable wisdom, do have a grasp on their story.


Even if they jump the shark with ME3's plot, the writers still have the greatest grip. Mostly because writers always have more stuff about a story in their head than is actually on paper. We can know what TIM does and says. They know what he's thinking.

Modifié par Patius Mehaffius, 19 novembre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Nethershadow]

sponge56 wrote...

There is no real plausibile explanation as to how some people on these forums can constantly defend Cerberus.

1)  Cerberus is an inherently RACIST/SPECIEST organisation.  They aim to make humanity the dominant power in the galaxy, subjugating the other races.  I don't understand how so many people on these forums can defend such as organisation.  The Mass Effects series makes it obvious that all races are fundamentally 'human' in regards to their emotions and core beliefs.  The only things which separate the races are some cultural and political differences.  The mantra of 'humanity has to be protected' has disturbing resonances to real life White Supremicist organisations, but I hopefully doubt that those defending Ceberus would defend this outlook.

2) Humanity doesn't really need to ascend.  A war with the other alien species is highly unlikely or even impossible due to the size of Humanity's fleet.  While not as large as the Turians, it poses a significant enough threat so that war would be very costly for both sides.  Also, Humanity is constantly given more and more powers and freedom by the Council in a very quick space of time, so why do we need such an organisation?

3) Many pro-cerberus supporters go on about how Cerberus represents and acts for humanity.  It does nothing of the sort.  Cerberus acts on the behalf of the Illusive Man, an individual figure who calls all the shots in his organisation.  The Alliance is run by elected officials who are voted into their respective positions, who elected the Illusive Man?  His funders trust he will act with humanity's best interests, but I doubt they know or have a say on a ything that he actually does.

1) RACIST/SPECIEST really has nothing to do with defending the merits of Cerberus or why it should exist. Your just trying to enforce your morality on everyone and tell them its the only way. Kind of like how many religions don´t accept other religions beliefs.

2) The key thing you forgot to put in this point was "IMO". You might believe this to be the only way, but i'm sure many would disagree with you, myself included. Many constantly seek power and/or improvement of various types. Corporations are a prime example. Again morality has nothing to do with this.

3) The Elusive Man is not Cerberus. He might decide it's primary projects but that doesn't mean every person that is part of Cerberus is a evil scumbag. Miri is a good example at the end of the 2nd, she feels TIM goes to far. Jacob believes in Cerberus and many positive aspects of it, and he wants to help shape the organization by trying to keep it honest in his mind.

If you are looking to debate the validity of Cerberus's existance then maybe you should just label this thread as such instead of just putting down a bunch of your opinions and totting them as fact. All i see here is a thread seeking validation for a point of view that can't possibly be wrong.

[Nethershadow]

Patius Mehaffius wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

This might not be the case so forgive me for saying, but it does seem like you think your view of what Cerberus is counts more that what Bioware's view of Cerberus is.

Bioware is fallible just like anyone else.

Yes, Bioware obviously doesn't have a grasp on their own creations while, you, in your infalliable wisdom, do have a grasp on their story.


Even if they jump the shark with ME3's plot, the writers still have the greatest grip. Mostly because writers always have more stuff about a story in their head than is actually on paper. We can know what TIM does and says. They know what he's thinking.

I agree with that the writers most definately have the greatest grip on it, but!...
-Thier story goals change to the needs of the company and the fans. If this wasn't true then we would have prolly heard of how they wrote the entire story like a novel from day one with no changes. As we have heard them say this was all planned from day one as a trilogy.
-If the writers story and view were infallible then they would not have asked for any feedback on what the current fans that have read the spoilers think so they can tweak the story.

Video game story writers, especially when it is in a sequel are very fallible. They didn't write it as a full story from the get go and many things they add are at others requests regardless of what they think.
But as a reader of a story, or in this case the player going thru the story, we only see the characters, elements and objectives based on that story and what 'appears' to make sense based on the ground work laid.

So the reader only has the story to form his view from, but the game writer has to keep changing the story based on others needs/desires and i could see them very easily make changes that contradict what they have already done. Look at comic books, that have multiple writers. Superman in one issue can say lift 100k tons, and then in another issue it might be stated that he could have only ever lifted 50k tons.

My two cents anyway.