1381 réponses à ce sujet

[CerberusWarrior]

It already is full of bad writing if you read parts of the leak .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Andorfiend wrote...
Worse, even if none of that had gone wrong, he was still setting humanity back by hiring these guys for black projects in the first place. Science advances because it is a collaborative process. People working on black projects do not publish. Their work is not shared. Humanity is not advanced by their work.

Tim has been single handedly stopping humanities best minds from helping humanity for decades.

ERm..no.

Cerberus is leaking tech to the Alliance. It's been doing that from day 1.

[chaosomegas]

all i know is the first time i saw tim knew i will have make him sleep with the fishs.

[CerberusWarrior]

all you Cerberus haters can not deal with the fact that Cerberus and the alliance are one in the same

[Harmless Citizen]

So why are you always b!tching about the Alliance?

[CerberusWarrior]

Random Nobody wrote...

So why are you always b!tching about the Alliance?

   


I just hate the fact that Bioware likes to make the alliance and Cerberus 2 different groups in the games but in all honesty they are one in the same . Plus I like TIM better over Anderson and Hackett 

[DeathDragon185]

Cerberus is portrayed as evil in ME. which is a shame cus I love them.(and I hate the Human race in general) I hope Shepard can make Cerberus seen as the good guys for once.

[Harmless Citizen]

Considering TIM is trying to take Shep's head off, seems unlikely.

[Someone With Mass]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

I just hate the fact that Bioware likes to make the alliance and Cerberus 2 different groups in the games but in all honesty they are one in the same . Plus I like TIM better over Anderson and Hackett.

Which is a complete lie, too.

I mean, did the Alliance torture their biotic children into submission? Probably not, since their project and station is relatively open to the public. Any parent that feels like their kid is being mistreated can just grab him/her and go.

I doubt the kids at the Teltin facility had that kind of luxury.

[Someone With Mass]

Random Nobody wrote...

Considering TIM is trying to take Shep's head off, seems unlikely.

You know the old TIM saying "Judge us not by our actions, but by what we're trying to accomplish"?

I have seen what they're trying to accomplish with all these attacks on Shepard and the Alliance and every other race out there, and I must say that it doesn't help them one bit. It hurts their image, in fact.

Because their goal is so unfathomably stupid.

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

I just hate the fact that Bioware likes to make the alliance and Cerberus 2 different groups in the games but in all honesty they are one in the same . Plus I like TIM better over Anderson and Hackett.

Which is a complete lie, too.

I mean, did the Alliance torture their biotic children into submission?

Since Cerberus was a part of the Alliance at the time of Teltin...

[goofyomnivore]

Early BAaT didn't sound like a rose garden. It wasn't Teltin ofc, but it was far from puppies and sunshine.

Modifié par strive, 28 novembre 2011 - 01:28 .

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]Andorfiend wrote...

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]
Worse, the experiments led to the total destruction of entire human colonies, thereby setting the cause of human expansion back by decades. [/quote]Bessides that the 'colonies' in questions were small pre-fabs, and most weren't even Alliance worlds at all, you made up that number.[/quote]

*sigh* Again, remember the news story in the elevator from ME 1? About how the colonial projects were losing funding and human colonial efforts has been set back, by years by the relatively minor attack on Eden Prime?[/quote]Eden Prime is a colony in the millions in highly-developed areas and arcologies. The Exo-Geni colonies are cited in prefabs that might have dozens. Eden Prime is a major showpiece of the Alliance's colonization efforts. The Exo-geni bases are low-key research centers, not population centers. Eden Prime was attacked by an army of Geth and nearly wiped out, leading into a major war with another species. The Exo-Geni colonies are being passed off as 'communication failures', or a result of the constant instability.


Lack of perspective again.
[quote]
How much worse do you think think it is to get a whole colony wiped out?[/quote]A few dozen people in a research center being wiped out is not a 'whole colony,' not in terms of effect. That's pittance in the ongoing war.
[quote]
How about when the colonies attacked by the Geth (who were Galactic boogymen) survived (Eden Prime and Feros) but other colonies were completely wiped out by Husks/Creepers which as far as the press knew are just random bad stuff that can happen to anyone stupid enough to leave earth? [/quote]Since the Geth attacks kill more people than were wiped out by Husks/Creepers, we have a lack of proportion here. More people die from traffic accidents daily in New York.

Colonies do fail from the dangers of the galaxy that aren't Geth.. or Cerberus. Pirates, for example. Akuze the colony was destroyed by a Thresher Maw before the marine massacre occured. Dragon-teeth massacres entirely unrelated to Cerberus have been known to happen. Small-scale loses are a part of life on the frontier, and expansion goes on anyway. It's big losses that are actual deterances.

[quote]How about when word gets out that feral Rachni are attacking our Marines, and have been spreading out throught the verge along trade routes? [/quote]Since the Rachni weren't spreading out along the trade routes, another lack of proportion.

There were a small number of Rachni.

[quote]
You do not encourage human expansion by wiping out colonies, wiping out marines for funs (Akuze), and spreading deadly and essentially unstoppable hazards (Thorian spores, feral Rachni) along the Verge.[/quote]You do not prohibit it either. Small-scale incidents do not, and have not, produced the effects you are claiming.

[quote]
When you hire scientists to commit treason/crimes against humanity, you are pretty much responsible for what happens, yes. [/quote]Since Cerberus was an actual arm of the Alliance during the time, treason is highly questionable. But this also rejects all responsibility by all other parties. Cerberus wasn't the one who killed the Akuze scientists, no matter how you try and spin it. Had Toombs (and possibly Shepard) not pulled the trigger, they wouldn't be dead.
[quote]
And the Exogeni project was doomed. The Thorian was apparently telepathic across interstellar distances. It was only a matter of time. [/quote]Since the Exogeni project was succeeding until the Thorian's death, this claim runs counter to the facts that we do know. You're claiming inevitability where not only isn't it demonstrated, but isn't necessarily warranted by any measure other than your own expectation.

[quote]
Every cerberus person you talk to goes on about how the scientists they hire are they best in their field.

So, we lost a crop of our best Biotics guys from Jack going rogue.

We lost our best medical/cyberneticists when every single person in the Lazarus project besides Miranda and Jacob died.

Plus the Rachni/Husk/Creeper teams.

And god knows what else.[/quote]Man, it's amazing how you both elevate Cerberus to godly levels of exclusive access to the best, and then make it seem like these are ALL the best. As if no one else also recruits the best, or as if the best is only a few dozen people who like black-ops terrorist groups. Let alone that you believe they are, in fact, the actual best... as opposed to the general 'we do our best to recruit talent' that every up-scale group looks for.

And, of course, your selective belief that only the projects we see set the tone for all other projects as well, when the least bit of perspective would suggest that, by their nature, only bad projects really stand to be noticed.

Biotics research gained from Jack can be carried over to other institutions. The cybernetic and medical advances from the Lazarus Project, which wouldn't have been organized and developed otherwise, are likewise not lost forever: there's even the CDN implication that they've used in politics to revive an otherwise dead Alliance politician. Advances that were made were not lost forever, and scientists wouldn't in other groups wouldn't have been pushed or directed to make them.


And, again, Cerberus did not kill the Creeper/Husk supersoldier teams... Shepard did. Just like Akuze scientists were killed by Toombs.

[quote]
Worse, even if none of that had gone wrong, he was still setting humanity back by hiring these guys for black projects in the first place. Science advances because it is a collaborative process. [/quote]That's an over-simplification of massive... well, lack of proportions.

Not all science is collaborative with all other parties. Science exclusivity is a key aspect of its advantage (and profitibility), and collaboration is likewise limited within groups. Few, if any, scientific fields practice pure open-field research: not only do you get diminishing returns once you pass a certain number, but you get less backing: nations and companies want exclusive access to advantages. And since research costs money...

This is why corporations and governments, not open-source communities, drive scientific development. It's also related to why the concept of 'intellectual property' exists.


Without someone backing research, research does not advance as fast it otherwise would. No one would have reached the Lazarus breakthroughs in any comparable rate of time had Cerberus not organized the research effort. Had Cerberus never been created, no one with their mindset and focus would have organized the research: you might still have living scientists, but science would be below where it was. There would be no ressurection of Shepard, and equivalent cybernetic developments would be less focused.



[quote]
Tim has been single handedly stopping humanities best minds from helping humanity for decades.[/quote]And, again, you're making numbers up.
[quote]
[quote]
...and an utter lack of perspective doesn't.
[/quote]

*sigh* The feral Rachni you fight on the volcanic project escaped from the Cerberus project. If they weren't contained that single act of incompetance and stupidity could have led to the destruction of humaity and galactic civillization as a whole.No more Krogan horde to fight them, remember? Try that on for perspective.[/quote]Since there were no fertile Rachni in that group to produce new Rachni...

Yeah. Total lack of perspective.

[Darth Death]

Cerberus are the bad guys clearly, and still there's massive debates.

[General User]

They ain't so bad once you get to know 'em.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

RamirezWolfen wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Random Nobody wrote...
Therefore yes, the vast majority (if not all) of its projects have been colossal failures.

Which ones?

Just off the top of my head:

In ME1: The use of rachni and thorian creepers as "disposable shock troops", the secret space station that the rachni took over, Corporal Tombs, and the murder of the admiral.

In ME2: Jack, Projects Firewalker and Overlord, the Suicide Mission (if Shepard doesn't side with them).
 
In ME: Ascension: The loss of Gillian Greyson who stays on the quarian fleet. The loss of Gillian's father who defects, the loss of Pall and his mercs who decide to double cross Cerberus.

In ME: Retribution: The whole story is about about a series of Cerberus screw-ups.

In fact the only project that Cerberus didn't screw up was the Lazarus Project which was about bringing Shepard back from the dead and rebuilding the Normandy and if Shepard doesn't side with them than that too could be considered a failure.

Jack wasn't a failure. And neither was the Suicide Mission.

According to Miranda, Jack was a mistake. And if Shepard destroys the Collector's base and tells TIM off I would call that a failure.  

[Andorfiend]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And, of course, your selective belief that only the projects we see set the tone for all other projects as well, when the least bit of perspective would suggest that, by their nature, only bad projects really stand to be noticed.

Yeah. Total lack of perspective.

Yes, I suppose it's true that I lack perspective, since I'm discussing not what happened in your richly embroidered imagination of what happened, but instead only what we saw in the game itself.

OTOH I don't particularly want to share a perspective based on a fantasy of fellating TIM.

Some data points. Jack is in her 20s and was experimented on since she was a small girl. Ergo TIM and Cerberus have projects extending back over 20 years. Decades is the accurate term to describe this span of time.

The encountered Rachni escapees included males. Since no males were seen or produced on Noveria, this must mean a breeding population escaped. Presumably workers or warriors can promote themselves to breeders in the absence of a proper Queen, there are several terrestrial analogues for this behavior.

Perhpas if you were to think about what we saw in the game instead of dwelling on how dreamy TIMs blue eyes are, you could perceive things correctly.

[Dean_the_Young]

Andorfiend wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And, of course, your selective belief that only the projects we see set the tone for all other projects as well, when the least bit of perspective would suggest that, by their nature, only bad projects really stand to be noticed.

Yeah. Total lack of perspective.

Yes, I suppose it's true that I lack perspective, since I'm discussing not what happened in your richly embroidered imagination of what happened, but instead only what we saw in the game itself.

OTOH I don't particularly want to share a perspective based on a fantasy of fellating TIM.

Oh, how charming. I disagree with your argument, therefor ad hominem attacks. If you can't even avoid those, there won't be any further replies to you from here on, I promise.

Some data points. Jack is in her 20s and was experimented on since she was a small girl. Ergo TIM and Cerberus have projects extending back over 20 years. Decades is the accurate term to describe this span of time.

Decades does not describe 'setting back human advancement', however, which is how you were using it. All it describes is how long ago individual things were.

The encountered Rachni escapees included males. Since no males were seen or produced on Noveria, this must mean a breeding population escaped.

Now this is just wrong. The Cerberus rachni were shipped from Noveria, and we have nothing on Noveria to say that the Rachni we were fighting there didn't include males as well (or weren't even all-male).

The only distinguished Rachni Shepard faced that weren't on Noveria were a pair of Brood Warriors.

Presumably workers or warriors can promote themselves to breeders in the absence of a proper Queen, there are several terrestrial analogues for this behavior.

And this is entirely created by you, not anything in the game. Nothing, anywhere in ME1 or elsewhere, suggests or implies that any Rachni other than queens can turn into queens. Queens are born.

Perhpas if you were to think about what we saw in the game instead of dwelling on how dreamy TIMs blue eyes are, you could perceive things correctly.

And maybe I should actually going by what's in the game, rather than inventing justification and timelines that aren't given. It usually works much better.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Since the Exogeni project was succeeding until the Thorian's death,

Actually it wasn't. The logs you find on Feros which point you to Nodacrux in the first place indicate the colony has already dropped out of contact and it is even suggested they lost control of the specimens (IIRC). Dr. Ross does speculate that maybe the Thorian's death caused it after Shepard brings it up, but Shepard doesn't bother to correct her. It seems the creepers went nuts for some other reason.

Yeah...this was always strange to me. I figured it was just a goof. The explanation that the Thorian dying affected the Creepers makes more sense then them just randomly berserking..

[Dean_the_Young]

Darth Death wrote...

Cerberus are the bad guys clearly, and still there's massive debates.

Even bad guys don't need to be needlessly slandered. It detracts from the actual seriousness of their crimes, and only promotes lazy thinking and misconceptions elsewhere as well. Hatred for crimes that aren't true isn't Justice, it's the perversion of it. There's nothing noble about blaming a villain for false crimes.


If you need to make up villainy to still want to take someone down, it's a strong indication that it's for your own desires, not for the merits (or demerits) of the other person.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:17 .

[Bad King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

I just hate the fact that Bioware likes to make the alliance and Cerberus 2 different groups in the games but in all honesty they are one in the same . Plus I like TIM better over Anderson and Hackett.

Which is a complete lie, too.

I mean, did the Alliance torture their biotic children into submission? Probably not, since their project and station is relatively open to the public. Any parent that feels like their kid is being mistreated can just grab him/her and go.

I doubt the kids at the Teltin facility had that kind of luxury.

They allowed their conatix partners to do so. They gave conatix free reign to do whatever the hell they liked to make strong human biotics which led to many children being badly mistreated and abused (as Kaidan said, some kids were broken by the ordeal). The Alliance's close association with conatix may also mean that they possibly deliberately released eezo on human colonies in order to make new biotics.

[Bad King]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Random Nobody wrote...
Therefore yes, the vast majority (if not all) of its projects have been colossal failures.

Which ones?

Just off the top of my head:

In ME1: The use of rachni and thorian creepers as "disposable shock troops", the secret space station that the rachni took over, Corporal Tombs, and the murder of the admiral.

In ME2: Jack, Projects Firewalker and Overlord, the Suicide Mission (if Shepard doesn't side with them).
 
In ME: Ascension: The loss of Gillian Greyson who stays on the quarian fleet. The loss of Gillian's father who defects, the loss of Pall and his mercs who decide to double cross Cerberus.

In ME: Retribution: The whole story is about about a series of Cerberus screw-ups.

In fact the only project that Cerberus didn't screw up was the Lazarus Project which was about bringing Shepard back from the dead and rebuilding the Normandy and if Shepard doesn't side with them than that too could be considered a failure.

Jack wasn't a failure. And neither was the Suicide Mission.

According to Miranda, Jack was a mistake. And if Shepard destroys the Collector's base and tells TIM off I would call that a failure.  

If Shepard dies after destroying the base, TIM still says that it was a victory for humanity ("We are nothing if not resilient").

[Someone With Mass]

Those projects were also shut down for obvious reasons.