Someone With Mass wrote...
Those projects were also shut down for obvious reasons.
Just like Teltin!
Why Cerberus cannot be defended
Débuté par
sponge56
, nov. 12 2011 01:28
#801
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 06:24
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Just like Teltin!
Retour en haut
#802
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 06:35
Andorfiend
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Dean_the_Young wrote...
Decades does not describe 'setting back human advancement', however, which is how you were using it. All it describes is how long ago individual things were.
Since the thrust of my argument is that Cerberuses black project approach is inherently advancement retarding, then decades of work by Cerberus is decades of hinderance to human progress. Do try to follow the whole arguement. On top of that add the fact that they have bungled every single operation we have ever seen in games and books and it's not a pretty picture.
Now this is just wrong. The Cerberus rachni were shipped from Noveria, and we have nothing on Noveria to say that the Rachni we were fighting there didn't include males as well (or weren't even all-male).
The only distinguished Rachni Shepard faced that weren't on Noveria were a pair of Brood Warriors.
And this is entirely created by you, not anything in the game. Nothing, anywhere in ME1 or elsewhere, suggests or implies that any Rachni other than queens can turn into queens. Queens are born.
The conversation with the project lead on Noveria clearly established that there were no males present in the project. It was a plot point.
The codex clearly states that the Brood Warriors were males and only fought when the colony was in desperate straights.
So. No males on Noveria as specified by in game dialogue with the project lead. Males were present on Nepmos and Altahe after the Rachni escaped the Cerberus breeding station. They came from somewhere. Ergo the Rachni must have some alternate means of producing new Rachni besides the mainline Queens.
A Warrior or Worker 'promoting' is speculation on my part. Rachni out in the galaxy who had not been birthed by the Queen on Noveria is as cannon as Seth Green having brittle bones.
Modifié par Andorfiend, 28 novembre 2011 - 06:36 .
#803
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 06:35
Aumata
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^Bad PR. But Cerberus is shown as failures, and very few info is shown as them succeeding, put that with them as the main antagonist then they are pretty much written as damn near impossible to defend. As I said earlier Bioware is pretty much content on writing them as they are, (massively stupid at best, or downright evil) which is a shame because they had an interesting concept for them in Mass Effect 1, but they pretty much burnt that bridge.
#804
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 06:38
Someone With Mass
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The project that was using the Ascension project as cover wasn't. It's like Cerberus can't for the life of them take the hint.
Figure out how to stop biotics instead of creating more of them.
Especially when you're making the biotics very unstable in the process.
Figure out how to stop biotics instead of creating more of them.
Especially when you're making the biotics very unstable in the process.
#805
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 08:24
Dean_the_Young
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Edited below.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 novembre 2011 - 08:31 .
#806
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 08:27
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Contiax got bad PR and so split between Ascension (civilian-friendly) and Teltin (not), while the e-zero exposures generated the biotics desired?Someone With Mass wrote...
Those projects were also shut down for obvious reasons.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 novembre 2011 - 08:27 .
#807
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 08:28
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But, because this one is especially poor...
There was one queen, and only one queen, which birthed new Rachni. Some of these non-queens were sold to Cerberus, including some Brood Warriors. There is nothing that says all male Rachni are brood warriors.
No, the plot point was that a queen doesn't need a male to breed new Rachni.Andorfiend wrote...
The conversation with the project lead on Noveria clearly established that there were no males present in the project. It was a plot point.
There was one queen, and only one queen, which birthed new Rachni. Some of these non-queens were sold to Cerberus, including some Brood Warriors. There is nothing that says all male Rachni are brood warriors.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 novembre 2011 - 08:30 .
#808
Posté 28 novembre 2011 - 11:26
ubermensch007
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Well I think that Cerberus can and should be defended, for many reasons... Or as i put it in my Blog:
Cerberus:
Are they friend or foe?
Should they be destroyed or preserved?
Cerberus has done many heinous things over its history - in the pursuit of a better future for humanity.But so too has next to every great nation on this Earth, during thier birthing pains: commited atrocities.But what they become as they mature, is more than not.A more noble, honorable and worthwhile entity.Which is a blessing more than a blight.
I see such potential as this, with Cerberus...
I have many different thoughts and feelings about this organization:
At times they seem incompetent:
Project Overlord, Project Firewalker and a host of other misadventures
during 2183.
At times they seem callous toward those commited to the cause:
Neither Miranda or Jacob gave a damn about the fate of those they had worked with for over two years on the Lazarus station.TIM wasn't all that broken up by all the human lives lost on the Derelict Reaper.
In spite of all this, I commend them for this above all else:
You can say what you will about thier track record, methods and mishaps.But at least they are "proactive" and anti- burecractic.And willing to put thier money where thier mouth is. They take action! On matters that others are either indifferent too, or unconcerned with.
The Illusive Man picked up the torch in Commander Shepard's absence, because no one else did.Unless you count Conrad Verner
The history of Cerberus is filled with successes and failures.The Dossier in the LOTSB list many of thier activities since thier inception.
But thier greatest acheivements are in 2185, hands down...
- It was Cerberus who remade the most advanced warship in the Systems Alliance fleet.
- It was Cereberus who like the Phoenix that rises from the ashes brought organics greatest champion, Commander Shepard back to life!
-It was Cerberus (and those who worked with them) who defeated the Collectors and protected human colonies in the Terminus Systems.
Now baring this all in mind.We are left to ask ourselves one question above all others, concerning Cerberus.
Where do they go from here?
What is the next most logical evolutionary step for an organization such as this to take?
As I see it.They are now in a position to remake thier public image, capitilize on thier great acheivements, and become nothing less, than in the Terminus Systems, what the Systems Alliance is for ****** sapiens in Citadel space.
Like it says in the Codex about the Blue Suns, and how they had a big PR coup.That they still use 10 or more years later.
Humans in the Terminus systems don't care much for the Alliance.Cerberus would not even exist if Jack Harper and others thought that the Alliance was doing thier damn job in the first place.TIM showed everyone his organizations power.And the Alliance and Citadel Council's impotence.Me thinks that Cerberus, is about to enter a Golden Age... As well they should
And ultimately... It is good for humanity to have a strong presence, in as many sectors of space as possible.But not in the traditional sense of empire building.Every spacefaring race, in a sense desires for thier species to be omnipresent and or ubiqutis throughout the galaxy.This increases there chances of surviving and prospering, no matter what the universe throws thier way...
Just look at the technological gains that Cerberus has aquired for humanity, by going where others like the Council & Alliance fear to tread:
The Terminus Systems...
The turian Councilor once asked,"If the Reapers exist.Why haven't we found proof of this?" Cerberus did find proof.Can you say, Derelict Reaper in the "Terminus systems".The Council was filled with exictement about the Prothean Beacon discovered on the human colony of Eden Prime.Which borders on the TS.
Ha... Perhaps this is what the Illusive Man was thinking about when he smiles as he looks at the Collector Base, that Shepard has saved.As of the end of Mass Effect 2,
Cerberus technological might is going to eclipse that of those who have been using Protheian/Reaper technology for thousands of years.And the Council races have no one to blame but themselves, for getting left behind.
Look: If someone is willing to go farther than you, risk more than you, explore more than you.Chances are - They are going to aquire more than you.For the simple reason that they are putting in much more effort.
Vae Victus... "Suffering for the conquered." The Council races shall not suffer at humanties hands by occupation and oppression.Rather they shall suffer with regret... They will suffer with the knowledge that as powerful as we now are.They could have been...
You know it really get's my goat, the way people like Jorim Talid and others, b!tch and whine and moan about how humans are being given more than they deserve or taking everything in sight.Our rise in political, military and economic might within the inter - galactic community in the space of a mere three or four decades.May be highley inplausible.But be that as it may.I won't apologize for it.The other space faring races have been out and about for thousands of years.
They've been able to establish off-world colonies longer than us.Aquire resources longer than us.Make new allies longer than us.Trade in goods longer than us.They have had a Grand Canyon level head start on us, in every way imaginable! But Cerberus, not the Alliance: figured out a way to sling-shot humanity ahead of the pack :-)
Cerberus:
Are they friend or foe?
Should they be destroyed or preserved?
Cerberus has done many heinous things over its history - in the pursuit of a better future for humanity.But so too has next to every great nation on this Earth, during thier birthing pains: commited atrocities.But what they become as they mature, is more than not.A more noble, honorable and worthwhile entity.Which is a blessing more than a blight.
I see such potential as this, with Cerberus...
I have many different thoughts and feelings about this organization:
At times they seem incompetent:
Project Overlord, Project Firewalker and a host of other misadventures
during 2183.
At times they seem callous toward those commited to the cause:
Neither Miranda or Jacob gave a damn about the fate of those they had worked with for over two years on the Lazarus station.TIM wasn't all that broken up by all the human lives lost on the Derelict Reaper.
In spite of all this, I commend them for this above all else:
You can say what you will about thier track record, methods and mishaps.But at least they are "proactive" and anti- burecractic.And willing to put thier money where thier mouth is. They take action! On matters that others are either indifferent too, or unconcerned with.
The Illusive Man picked up the torch in Commander Shepard's absence, because no one else did.Unless you count Conrad Verner
The history of Cerberus is filled with successes and failures.The Dossier in the LOTSB list many of thier activities since thier inception.
But thier greatest acheivements are in 2185, hands down...
- It was Cerberus who remade the most advanced warship in the Systems Alliance fleet.
- It was Cereberus who like the Phoenix that rises from the ashes brought organics greatest champion, Commander Shepard back to life!
-It was Cerberus (and those who worked with them) who defeated the Collectors and protected human colonies in the Terminus Systems.
Now baring this all in mind.We are left to ask ourselves one question above all others, concerning Cerberus.
Where do they go from here?
What is the next most logical evolutionary step for an organization such as this to take?
As I see it.They are now in a position to remake thier public image, capitilize on thier great acheivements, and become nothing less, than in the Terminus Systems, what the Systems Alliance is for ****** sapiens in Citadel space.
Like it says in the Codex about the Blue Suns, and how they had a big PR coup.That they still use 10 or more years later.
Humans in the Terminus systems don't care much for the Alliance.Cerberus would not even exist if Jack Harper and others thought that the Alliance was doing thier damn job in the first place.TIM showed everyone his organizations power.And the Alliance and Citadel Council's impotence.Me thinks that Cerberus, is about to enter a Golden Age... As well they should
And ultimately... It is good for humanity to have a strong presence, in as many sectors of space as possible.But not in the traditional sense of empire building.Every spacefaring race, in a sense desires for thier species to be omnipresent and or ubiqutis throughout the galaxy.This increases there chances of surviving and prospering, no matter what the universe throws thier way...
Just look at the technological gains that Cerberus has aquired for humanity, by going where others like the Council & Alliance fear to tread:
The Terminus Systems...
The turian Councilor once asked,"If the Reapers exist.Why haven't we found proof of this?" Cerberus did find proof.Can you say, Derelict Reaper in the "Terminus systems".The Council was filled with exictement about the Prothean Beacon discovered on the human colony of Eden Prime.Which borders on the TS.
Ha... Perhaps this is what the Illusive Man was thinking about when he smiles as he looks at the Collector Base, that Shepard has saved.As of the end of Mass Effect 2,
Cerberus technological might is going to eclipse that of those who have been using Protheian/Reaper technology for thousands of years.And the Council races have no one to blame but themselves, for getting left behind.
Look: If someone is willing to go farther than you, risk more than you, explore more than you.Chances are - They are going to aquire more than you.For the simple reason that they are putting in much more effort.
Vae Victus... "Suffering for the conquered." The Council races shall not suffer at humanties hands by occupation and oppression.Rather they shall suffer with regret... They will suffer with the knowledge that as powerful as we now are.They could have been...
You know it really get's my goat, the way people like Jorim Talid and others, b!tch and whine and moan about how humans are being given more than they deserve or taking everything in sight.Our rise in political, military and economic might within the inter - galactic community in the space of a mere three or four decades.May be highley inplausible.But be that as it may.I won't apologize for it.The other space faring races have been out and about for thousands of years.
They've been able to establish off-world colonies longer than us.Aquire resources longer than us.Make new allies longer than us.Trade in goods longer than us.They have had a Grand Canyon level head start on us, in every way imaginable! But Cerberus, not the Alliance: figured out a way to sling-shot humanity ahead of the pack :-)
Modifié par ubermensch007, 28 novembre 2011 - 11:27 .
#809
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:12
Andorfiend
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Dean_the_Young wrote...
But, because this one is especially poor...No, the plot point was that a queen doesn't need a male to breed new Rachni.Andorfiend wrote...
The conversation with the project lead on Noveria clearly established that there were no males present in the project. It was a plot point.
There was one queen, and only one queen, which birthed new Rachni. Some of these non-queens were sold to Cerberus, including some Brood Warriors. There is nothing that says all male Rachni are brood warriors.
... The whole conversation was senseless if there were male Rachni present on Noveria.
Shepard: "Doesn't the queen need a male to lay fertile eggs?"
Apologetic Russian Dude:"What are you talking about? They're all male. A male just shoved his tentacle through my chest."
You're clearly uninterested in thinking bad thoughts about your beloved imbecile Tim, no matter how many facts are presented to you. Consider this conversation over. I'm sure you've already crowned yourself the winner in the sticky black depths of your own mind.
#810
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:31
BlueMagitek
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Was it ever specified that all Workers and Soldiers were female?
The only restriction was that Queens were female (but could reproduce without males) and that Brood Warriors were male and biotic.
In fact, Brood Warriors are "elder males".
http://masseffect.wi...i_Brood_Warrior
The only restriction was that Queens were female (but could reproduce without males) and that Brood Warriors were male and biotic.
In fact, Brood Warriors are "elder males".
http://masseffect.wi...i_Brood_Warrior
#811
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:37
CerberusWarrior
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Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
#812
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:40
111987
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CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
Isn't the Alliance the one fighting the Reapers, not Cerberus, in ME3?
The Alliance aren't as useless as you make them out to be.
#813
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:47
Someone With Mass
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CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
Last time I checked, Hackett was the one who gave Shepard the mission in Arrival, which delayed the Reapers by several months.
All Alliance fleets were tasked to defend the relays leading to Earth too.
What have Cerberus done to defend anything else but their own sorry asses?
Besides claiming to defend humanity, I'd like to see them actually do it.
#814
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:56
CerberusWarrior
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Someone With Mass wrote...
CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
Last time I checked, Hackett was the one who gave Shepard the mission in Arrival, which delayed the Reapers by several months.
All Alliance fleets were tasked to defend the relays leading to Earth too.
What have Cerberus done to defend anything else but their own sorry asses?
Besides claiming to defend humanity, I'd like to see them actually do it.
Oh please Hackett set Shepard up in the arrival DLC . don't give me this crap about Hackett didn't know the alliance had found a reaper artifact . The alliance did it so they could find a way to put Shepard on trail and to steal the SR 2 but you alliance fan droids got your wish in 3 but in doing so screwed us renegade players . Thats fine your Shepard can be the alliance lap dog My Shepard is going to be a 100% total ass to the alliance and renegade . They get in my way in 3 well they will die .
#815
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:56
onelifecrisis
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Someone With Mass wrote...
CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
Last time I checked, Hackett was the one who gave Shepard the mission in Arrival, which delayed the Reapers by several months.
All Alliance fleets were tasked to defend the relays leading to Earth too.
What have Cerberus done to defend anything else but their own sorry asses?
Besides claiming to defend humanity, I'd like to see them actually do it.
What he said.
More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.
Modifié par onelifecrisis, 29 novembre 2011 - 01:57 .
#816
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 01:59
CerberusWarrior
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onelifecrisis wrote...
Someone With Mass wrote...
CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
Last time I checked, Hackett was the one who gave Shepard the mission in Arrival, which delayed the Reapers by several months.
All Alliance fleets were tasked to defend the relays leading to Earth too.
What have Cerberus done to defend anything else but their own sorry asses?
Besides claiming to defend humanity, I'd like to see them actually do it.
What he said.
More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.
Us Pro Cerberus fans do not have to answer to you pathetic alliance fan bots . You got your wish in 3 and now I have no problem being a total ass to the alliance . They want My shepard on trail I will give them a real reason by this time extreminating another alien race if I get the choice in 3
#817
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:01
onelifecrisis
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CerberusWarrior wrote...
onelifecrisis wrote...
Someone With Mass wrote...
CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
Last time I checked, Hackett was the one who gave Shepard the mission in Arrival, which delayed the Reapers by several months.
All Alliance fleets were tasked to defend the relays leading to Earth too.
What have Cerberus done to defend anything else but their own sorry asses?
Besides claiming to defend humanity, I'd like to see them actually do it.
What he said.
More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.
Us Pro Cerberus fans do not have to answer to you pathetic alliance fan bots . You got your wish in 3 and now I have no problem being a total ass to the alliance . They want My shepard on trail I will give them a real reason by this time extreminating another alien race if I get the choice in 3
I'll take that as a "no" to the question of whether you'd be willing to be a Cerberus guinea pig in the name of progress.
#818
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:04
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onelifecrisis wrote...
More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.
What would you like me to do, murder my ****ing parents and post it on the internet?
#819
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:07
111987
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CerberusWarrior wrote...
Someone With Mass wrote...
CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is
Last time I checked, Hackett was the one who gave Shepard the mission in Arrival, which delayed the Reapers by several months.
All Alliance fleets were tasked to defend the relays leading to Earth too.
What have Cerberus done to defend anything else but their own sorry asses?
Besides claiming to defend humanity, I'd like to see them actually do it.
Oh please Hackett set Shepard up in the arrival DLC . don't give me this crap about Hackett didn't know the alliance had found a reaper artifact . The alliance did it so they could find a way to put Shepard on trail and to steal the SR 2 but you alliance fan droids got your wish in 3 but in doing so screwed us renegade players . Thats fine your Shepard can be the alliance lap dog My Shepard is going to be a 100% total ass to the alliance and renegade . They get in my way in 3 well they will die .
Wow. You are just so wrong.
If they just wanted to put Shepard on trial, than they could, you know, charge him with treason as he is openly working with a terrorist group.
#820
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:09
Someone With Mass
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CerberusWarrior wrote...
Us Pro Cerberus fans do not have to answer to you pathetic alliance fan bots . You got your wish in 3 and now I have no problem being a total ass to the alliance . They want My shepard on trail I will give them a real reason by this time extreminating another alien race if I get the choice in 3
That's a "no"
You pretty much admit that Cerberus has done nothing to help anyone but themselves.
Truly they are the symbols of humanity.
By the way, those "filthy" aliens, they are actually trying to help. While Cerberus tries to claim everything for themselves.
That won't sustain a viable population once the war is over. If we had placed all our hope in Cerberus, the human race would've been extinct, because TIM is just trying to defend his own pathetic ass.
#821
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:11
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like I care if you agree or not you alliance fan droids should be happy with your crying and what it got you in 3 . Cerberus is ok in My Shepard's mind .
#822
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:12
DiebytheSword
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Saphra Deden wrote...
onelifecrisis wrote...
More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.
What would you like me to do, murder my ****ing parents and post it on the internet?
Does that advance humanity's role in the future and beyond?
#823
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:14
Someone With Mass
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111987 wrote...
Wow. You are just so wrong.
If they just wanted to put Shepard on trial, than they could, you know, charge him with treason as he is openly working with a terrorist group.
Speaking of which. The designs for the Normandy? That's Alliance property.
And seeing how every nation in the Alliance and Citadel space marked Cerberus as terrorists, they have the full right to confiscate everything that's connected to Cerberus. Like any nation would've done.
#824
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:15
Someone With Mass
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CerberusWarrior wrote...
like I care if you agree or not you alliance fan droids should be happy with your crying and what it got you in 3 . Cerberus is ok in My Shepard's mind .
Until you have something better to come up with than insults (which makes such great arguments, right?), we're done here.
Edit: Here's a fun fact for you: If it wasn't for Hackett, Shepard would've been arrested as a part of a year long investigation the nanosecond he/she set foot in Citadel or Alliance space after being brought back to life.
Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 novembre 2011 - 02:17 .
#825
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 02:16
Sgt Stryker
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CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh please Hackett set Shepard up in the arrival DLC . don't give me this crap about Hackett didn't know the alliance had found a reaper artifact . The alliance did it so they could find a way to put Shepard on trail and to steal the SR 2 but you alliance fan droids got your wish in 3 but in doing so screwed us renegade players . Thats fine your Shepard can be the alliance lap dog My Shepard is going to be a 100% total ass to the alliance and renegade . They get in my way in 3 well they will die .
Sounds like a great idea for a fan fiction. Maybe you should write one? I'm sure it'll be a big hit with all eight of the Pro-Cerberus people out there.
