1381 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

onelifecrisis wrote...

More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.

Or just be ready sacrifice themselves for once.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yeah, clearly the Renegade habit of not putting themselves in harms way indicates that they aren't willing to die for the cause.

All those missions where Shepard was being shot at? Those were delusions.

Hey, you said it, not me.

By the way, pro-Renegade =/= pro-Cerberus.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 novembre 2011 - 02:30 .

[silentassassin264]

Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Oh I defend them . if you want a do nothing bunch of pricks then roll with the alliance . I and many others would rather go and get the job done no matter what the cost is

Last time I checked, Hackett was the one who gave Shepard the mission in Arrival, which delayed the Reapers by several months.

All Alliance fleets were tasked to defend the relays leading to Earth too.

What have Cerberus done to defend anything else but their own sorry asses?

Besides claiming to defend humanity, I'd like to see them actually do it.

Arrival was not meant to stop the Reapers, it was to rescue Kenson.  

Cerberus doesn't have fleets to defend anything.

Lastly, did you miss the entirety of Mass Effect 2?  Cerberus saved humanity from the Collectors and brought Shepard back from the dead.  Prior to ME3, Cerberus did not have an army to to use brute force to enforce things.  They had their niche in extreme transhumanism studies with...several swings and misses.  

[Someone With Mass]

I must say that the whole "Cerberus bringing Shepard back to life" thing has really overstayed its welcome. It's been over a year. You're telling me that they have reached their quota for the whole Reaper invasion with just that? Bringing back one soldier and then they're done?

Oh, yeah. That's comforting to know. Really motivates one to place any sort of faith in them too. [/sarcasm]

[BlueMagitek]

Well, to be fair, without Shepard, the galaxy would be reaped pretty horribly. >.>

[onelifecrisis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.

Or just be ready sacrifice themselves for once.

Yeah that's what I meant. Bad wording on my part?

[onelifecrisis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

More generally, I'm still waiting for any of the pro-cerberus "progress no matter the cost" types to volunteer themselves as "cost", even just hypothetically.

What would you like me to do, murder my ****ing parents and post it on the internet?

Uh, no. For one thing, that would be sacrificing your parents, not yourself. For another thing, unless I'm missing something there's no potential gain.

No, what I'm asking is whether you'd allow cerberus to perform painful and lethal tests on you if it meant they might make some scientific progress. Progress at all costs, right? Presumably, "all costs" includes you. Or is there a loophole that I missed?

[capn233]

Cerberus is bad, mmmkay?

[onelifecrisis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Uh, no. For one thing, that would be sacrificing your parents, not yourself. For another thing, unless I'm missing something there's no potential gain.

Well at times you want the Renegade types to sacrifice their own families and then themselves?

So should I murder my parents and then commit suicide? Should I stream it? 

Would you still save the DA even if it meant your loved ones dying in the process? Would you blow up the Alpha Relay if it was your family that was on the colony?

I don't doubt that your Shepard is willing to risk his life because he risks every time he is shot at (same with Renegade).

So don't pull this BS about the other side not putting themselves at risk. That even includes TIM who has put himself at risk and been willing to die for humanity.

Why are you stuck on the parents thing? I don't know where you got it from, and I told you quite clearly it's not what I meant, but you're still on about it. And you totally ignored the part of my post where I explained what I did mean.

I'm not talking about Shepard either. Or TIM. I'm talking about you. Imagine you live in the ME universe, on Earth or a colony or whatever. Simple question: does "all costs" include you? Would you agree with you being used by Cerberus as a guinea pig in one of their experiments? Yes or no?

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Uh, no. For one thing, that would be sacrificing your parents, not yourself. For another thing, unless I'm missing something there's no potential gain.

Well at times you want the Renegade types to sacrifice their own families and then themselves?

So should I murder my parents and then commit suicide? Should I stream it? 

Would you still save the DA even if it meant your loved ones dying in the process? Would you blow up the Alpha Relay if it was your family that was on the colony?

I don't doubt that your Shepard is willing to risk his life because he risks every time he is shot at (same with Renegade).

So don't pull this BS about the other side not putting themselves at risk. That even includes TIM who has put himself at risk and been willing to die for humanity.

I would save the DA if it meant my family would not be saved.  I would destroy the Alpha Relay if my family was on Ahritot.  Those are lives lost with purpose.  That others may live, I will commit to this evil this once.  I will save billions of lives and sacrifice those close to me if that was the duty I was tasked with.

I would not torture innocent children to make a better biotic.

I would not send a military unit and entire colony to its death to study the effects of Thresher Maw spittle in a bloodstream.

I would not try to harness as shock troops a species that was known to be able to build FTL craft and open mass relays.

I would not use the assets so willingly poured into the Normandy on an obvious trap without telling Commander Shepard that it was one.

I would not pressure my cells to produce results in a way that ends up being counterproductive in terms of material costs, manpower, and possible exposure to satisfy my desire for urgency.  Something Cerberus does too often, a good example being Overlord (and for a non-cerberus renegade example, Tali's father).

[111987]

Cerberus was pretty stupid to think they could enslave the Rachni. They didn't know how intelligent they were? The Rachni damn near wiped out the galaxy! They couldn't do that if they were mindless insects.

[DiebytheSword]

111987 wrote...

Cerberus was pretty stupid to think they could enslave the Rachni. They didn't know how intelligent they were? The Rachni damn near wiped out the galaxy! They couldn't do that if they were mindless insects.

Precisely, that was a complete dumb ass move by that cell.  The Rachni built ships, had civilization and a handle on mass effect technology.  Lets enslave them and see if they revolt!  Humanity on top at any costs!

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

I would save the DA if it meant my family would not be saved.  I would destroy the Alpha Relay if my family was on Ahritot.  Those are lives lost with purpose.  That others may live, I will commit to this evil this once.  I will save billions of lives and sacrifice those close to me if that was the duty I was tasked with.

I would not torture innocent children to make a better biotic.

I would not send a military unit and entire colony to its death to study the effects of Thresher Maw spittle in a bloodstream.

I would not try to harness as shock troops a species that was known to be able to build FTL craft and open mass relays.

I would not use the assets so willingly poured into the Normandy on an obvious trap without telling Commander Shepard that it was one.

I would not pressure my cells to produce results in a way that ends up being counterproductive in terms of material costs, manpower, and possible exposure to satisfy my desire for urgency.  Something Cerberus does too often, a good example being Overlord (and for a non-cerberus renegade example, Tali's father).

Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

Enslaving rachni isn't stupid. The operatives underestimated their intelligence though. Perhaps they didn't think drones would be that clever, attributing the intelligence of the species to say... a hive-like thing. Like with ants. An individual ant isn't very bright but a colony can surprise you.

In any case, sentient races in Mass Effect enslave each-other all the time so clearly using the rachni in that way is not an inherently flawed concept.

I wouldn't be taking ANY chances with a race like the Rachni. To let the feral Rachni run free is inexcusable, in my opinion.

[Harmless Citizen]

None of those mass slaveries turn out particularly well, so it seems flawed to me.

[mauro2222]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Cerberus has done many heinous things over its history - in the pursuit of a better future for humanity.But so too has next to every great nation on this Earth, during thier birthing pains: commited atrocities.But what they become as they mature, is more than not.A more noble, honorable and worthwhile entity.Which is a blessing more than a blight.

You scare me... let's blow a planet full of people, because it was in the path of our ship who was sending food to another planet. Noble goal, completly eclipsed and destroyed by the mean to achieve it. Yeah, if you actually think than that it's correct, you scare me even more. Just because someone made a bad action, and everything turned out well, doesn't mean that you should take the same path and play with luck and the lives of others.

No wonder you people support Cerberus... you are capable of everything, just to grasp the stupid idea that humans deserve to be all mighty.

Modifié par mauro2222, 29 novembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

I would save the DA if it meant my family would not be saved.  I would destroy the Alpha Relay if my family was on Ahritot.  Those are lives lost with purpose.  That others may live, I will commit to this evil this once.  I will save billions of lives and sacrifice those close to me if that was the duty I was tasked with.

I would not torture innocent children to make a better biotic.

I would not send a military unit and entire colony to its death to study the effects of Thresher Maw spittle in a bloodstream.

I would not try to harness as shock troops a species that was known to be able to build FTL craft and open mass relays.

I would not use the assets so willingly poured into the Normandy on an obvious trap without telling Commander Shepard that it was one.

I would not pressure my cells to produce results in a way that ends up being counterproductive in terms of material costs, manpower, and possible exposure to satisfy my desire for urgency.  Something Cerberus does too often, a good example being Overlord (and for a non-cerberus renegade example, Tali's father).

Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

Enslaving rachni isn't stupid. The operatives underestimated their intelligence though. Perhaps they didn't think drones would be that clever, attributing the intelligence of the species to say... a hive-like thing. Like with ants. An individual ant isn't very bright but a colony can surprise you.

In any case, sentient races in Mass Effect enslave each-other all the time so clearly using the rachni in that way is not an inherently flawed concept.

Underestimation implies carelessness, and thus stupidity.  They began a project without proper understanding of the subject at hand, even though they had an end goal in sight.  There are more than enough historical records of the Rachni to understand that the species was capable of space flight and interstellar war.  Why this would result in a viable slave shock troop in someones warped perception of reality is flawed logic at the very best.  Any enslaved population will eventually rebel.  There was never an enslaved population that totally turns in their freedom card, and accepts slavery as the natural state of things.  Even the rachni, uneducated and fearful, lash out at their captors after only so long.

You even say it yourself, Ceberus did not think this through well enough.  They ruthlessly persued a goal they did not fully understand; it is as if Ceberus relives the Prometheus parable daily, stealing fire from the gods whenever it suits their end goals and expecting that fire to never burn them to the ground.

So because other races do it, slavery is justified?  Slavery is never justified.  It is the robbing of free will for cheap labor, inexcusable under any set of morals.  Even if your society is built on it, be the South or the Batarians, that society is repugnant, and decidedly unnatural amongst Sapients.  Slavery only exists so long as there is strength to keep those slaves in line, Cerberus at that point in time, did not posses the strength to keep a population enslaved and obedient; it was an impossible goal from the outset.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 29 novembre 2011 - 07:04 .

[Someone With Mass]

It's sort of hypocritical too.

Freeing your race while enslaving others. Then you're no better than the slavers, and should be treated as such.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Us Pro Cerberus fans do not have to answer to you pathetic alliance fan bots . You got your wish in 3 and now I have no problem being a total ass to the alliance . They want My shepard on trail I will give them a real reason by this time extreminating another alien race if I get the choice in 3

That's a "no"

You pretty much admit that Cerberus has done nothing to help anyone but themselves.

Truly they are the symbols of humanity.

By the way, those "filthy" aliens, they are actually trying to help. While Cerberus tries to claim everything for themselves.

That won't sustain a viable population once the war is over. If we had placed all our hope in Cerberus, the human race would've been extinct, because TIM is just trying to defend his own pathetic ass.

Which is provably false. As not only do we have documanted proof of cerberus strengthening humanity, by improving it's military and technologcial prowess and political standing - but we also have clear cut proof of TIM thinking nothing of sacrificing himself to stop the reapers.

[Lotion Soronarr]

mauro2222 wrote...
You scare me... let's blow a planet full of people, because it was in the path of our ship who was sending food to another planet. Noble goal, completly eclipsed and destroyed by the mean to achieve it. Yeah, if you actually think than that it's correct, you scare me even more. Just because someone made a bad action, and everything turned out well, doesn't mean that you should take the same path and play with luck and the lives of others.

No wonder you people support Cerberus... you are capable of everything, just to grasp the stupid idea that humans deserve to be all mighty.

That example is an insult to common sense and human intelligence.

No wonder you people attack Cerberus so much...you arne't capable of thinking rationally.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Which is provably false. As not only do we have documanted proof of cerberus strengthening humanity, by improving it's military and technologcial prowess and political standing - but we also have clear cut proof of TIM thinking nothing of sacrificing himself to stop the reapers.

Improving the military? Like in stealing antimatter from Alliance ships or luring their squads into thresher maw nests?

Or are you just talking about making the Alliance construct that one stealth ship which the Reapers can detect anyway?

Or maybe you're talking about THAT DEAD REAPER TIM REFUSED TO TELL ANYONE ABOUT? Which could've given everyone a great understanding of how the Reapers work. But nope, Cerberus had to go full-on derp and lose the damn thing.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 novembre 2011 - 01:24 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



That example is an insult to common sense and human intelligence.

No wonder you people attack Cerberus so much...you arne't capable of thinking rationally.

It certainly doesn't help when you generalize like that either.