1381 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Eh, Shepard defeated the Collectors. Cerberus did nothing to help at the battle itself.

   


Cerberus saved us in 2

Incorrect. If by "us" you refer to humanity as a whole: there is no way the Collectors could have targeted Earth and gotten away with it. If by "us" you mean Shepard + the squad, that is incorrect as well. Shepard and the squad saved themselves, and completed their mission to boot.

Strictly speaking, the conversion of all Geth into Heretics would have allowed the Collectors the strength to target Earth and get away with it. Though with the pending arrival of the Reapers, it's not clear if they would have bothered with it.


Besides the standard 'Lazarus' caveat, I otherwise agree with your post.

[Adanu]

This thread is filled with the same old anti Ceberus fanatics who simple can't understand that Cerberus saved humanity by rebuilding Shepard and supporting Shepard through ME2.

Without the intelligence TIM provided, the collectors would have been unchecked.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Collectors were never an existential threat, however. Nor was Shepard necessary for a majority of the things that occured in the game.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 novembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[Sgt Stryker]

@Adanu

Sure, the collectors would have been unchecked, as long as their attacks were limited to isolated, sparsely-populated colonies like Horizon. The moment they dared to touch a world like Eden Prime, Terra Nova, or even Earth, I'm confident they would have been curb-stomped. The threat of the collectors doesn't hold a candle to that of the Reapers.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, the real problem of the Collectors was (a) they couldn't be reached, and so could hide however long they wanted, and ( would have had the entire Geth race behind them by the time they might have attacked major Alliance colonies.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

We don't strive to be better than anyone else, we don't judge anyone, we only wish to be as free as possible.

Is that why you're sabotaging the peace treaties between races and nearly force them into war with each other?

Yeah, feed someone else the bullsh*t.

[Someone With Mass]

Taking all the credit and none of the blame, huh?

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 novembre 2011 - 11:31 .

[Arkitekt]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Shepard defeated the Collectors in ME2, not Cerberus.

Cerberus paid you. Cerberus directed you. Cerberus provided you with all the tools. Cerberus gets at least as much credit as you do.

Cerberus even provided highly trained personel, led by Miranda and Jacob, and brought back Joker into action.

Cerberus granted intel about the most interesting would-be-agents across the galaxy that had either the right tools or the inclinations to undertake the mission at hand.

I don't like Cerberus, but to deny its role in ME2 is beyond ridiculous and I pity the brains that attempt to do so without melting themselves.

[Arkitekt]

Oh I already see a melting brain... jesus...

[mauro2222]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The other races only matter in so far as they impact humanity's destiny. Their freedom and well being isn't Cerberus' concern.

A little bit selfish, doesn't it?

[Someone With Mass]

Tell that to someone who gives a damn.

[111987]

Adanu wrote...

This thread is filled with the same old anti Ceberus fanatics who simple can't understand that Cerberus saved humanity by rebuilding Shepard and supporting Shepard through ME2.

Without the intelligence TIM provided, the collectors would have been unchecked.

Cerberus, specifically the team that worked with Shepard, was definitely essential to saving humanity from the Collector threat. It is their other cells, and there overarching goals, that are concerning.

[DiebytheSword]

Lazarus cell did all the heavy lifting, if we are doling out credit, it belongs to them, and not to all of Ceberus. TIM would obviously be included on that list.

Logistics aside, Shepard made the calls, not TIM. Otherwise there would be no debate over the Collector base or Reaper carcass.

It is also of special mention that people followed Shepard, not Cerberus into battle. TIM mentions this himself, Shepard has excellent team building skills.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

So you just clam up when confronted with the truth, huh?

I'm sorry, was that comment directed to you? No?

[mauro2222]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Their goal of "human dominance" only disturbs you if you are a self-hating liberal alien-loving stooge.

Excuse me? So if we want peace and coexistence, that means we hate human kind. Lovely.

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

Cerberus, specifically the team that worked with Shepard, was definitely essential to saving humanity from the Collector threat. It is their other cells, and there overarching goals, that are concerning.

Well Cerberus did give us human biotics. What goals of theirs do you find concerning? Their goal of "human dominance" only disturbs you if you are a self-hating liberal alien-loving stooge.

It disturbs me because if human dominance is taken too far, humanity would end up losing everything. The galaxy is too big and the other races too powerful for humanity to be arrogant enough to assume they can dominate the galaxy.

I also feel that in some cases Cerberus acts extreme just for the sake of being extreme. Did David really need to be set up in such a gruesome machine? Did they really need to treat children like lab mice and let them live in terrible conditions? Why is assassination their first solution to every problem that arises?

[mauro2222]

Saphra Deden wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Excuse me? So if we want peace and coexistence, that means we hate human kind. Lovely.

Nothing about human dominance implies a lack of peace or coexistence.

No, of course... slavery, murder, war...

[Someone With Mass]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Lazarus cell did all the heavy lifting, if we are doling out credit, it belongs to them, and not to all of Ceberus. TIM would obviously be included on that list.

Logistics aside, Shepard made the calls, not TIM. Otherwise there would be no debate over the Collector base or Reaper carcass.

It is also of special mention that people followed Shepard, not Cerberus into battle. TIM mentions this himself, Shepard has excellent team building skills.

That's pretty much it, yeah.

When it came down to the choices themselves, TIM was dumber than a box of hammers. 

"I didn't tell you about that obvious trap, because that might have helped or warned them, even though this transmission can't be intercepted and I told you before that I believed in your abilities"

"I didn't give any information about the Reapers to the Alliance, because then they could've prepared"

"I decided to keep my mouth shut about the radiation pulse because I suddenly had faith in your abilities again"

"I didn't send any other Cerberus squads with you through the relay to help you and to secure what I wanted, because that would've been a smart thing to do"