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[DiebytheSword]

Quole wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Quole wrote...

Cerberus is selfish, incredibly incompetent, and racist. Yeah, it actually does seem like a good representative for humanity in fact.

Heh, well done.  Too bad it applies to all races in mass effect. 


"We work to our own goals at the expense of others." - motto of every ME race.

Cerberus more so than others obviously. And if that is the case with every other race.. why MUST it be the case for humanity anyway? How does that make us any better?

It does not.  The only real power you have is that which you hone and wield yourself.  All other power is fleeting, and can be taken away as fast as it's gained.  Rule by the rod, expect the rod to hit you down the road.  Lead by example and expect the rest to fall in line.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 30 novembre 2011 - 12:36 .

[General User]

mauro2222 wrote...

General User wrote...

A champion is someone or something that fights for or defends someone or something else. In this case, the human race.

And humanity will cease to exist because one or more of the other races will decide, for whatever reason, to destroy it.

Yeah, I know what a champion is, but I can't see why someone like him is needed.

So, humanity makes a preventive attack against them just for irrational fear?

The thing about him (by which I assume you mean TIM) is he probably isn't the ultimately the right man for the job.  But he's the one who, as the Americans say, stepped to the plate.

I never said anything about anyone attacking anyone else or anyone being fearful of anyone else.  Just that the galaxy is what it is.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

What makes you say that?

I don't know.

All that talk about them giving up their power one way or another, perhaps?

You're not after peace. You're after power.

In the name of Kane!

[Quole]

General User wrote...

Quole wrote...

General User wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

General User wrote...

Just that there's nothing inherently good about the other races.  Or inherently bad about our own.

Right,
wrong, or indifferent, the galaxy of Mass Effect is organized along
racial lines.  And as nice as it might be to change that, until we do,
humanity as a race needs a champion (and a strong one) or humanity as a
race will cease to exist.

What do you mean by champion? And why humanity will cease to exist?

A champion is someone or something that fights for or defends someone or something else. In this case, the human race.

And humanity will cease to exist because one or more of the other races will decide, for whatever reason, to destroy it.

ummmm  wat?

I don't know how to answer that.  Mostly because I don't know wat you're asking.

What race wants to attack us? I have no problem being prepared IN CASE one does, but that does not mean we need to resort to terrorism.

[mauro2222]

General User wrote...

The thing about him (by which I assume you mean TIM) is he probably isn't the ultimately the right man for the job.  But he's the one who, as the Americans say, stepped to the plate.

I never said anything about anyone attacking anyone else or anyone being fearful of anyone else.  Just that the galaxy is what it is.

Nope, I wasn't even thinking about him... I asked you why you think that a "champion" is needed. Yeah, he might "stepped to the plate", that doesn't mean that he is right or that he deserves this "champion" position.

[General User]

Quole wrote...

What race wants to attack us? I have no problem being prepared IN CASE one does, but that does not mean we need to resort to terrorism.

You're right we do not need to resort to terrorism.  Black ops on the other hand are time-honored and vital tools in any sort of "international" (or "interstellar" in this case) arena.

I believe it was Lord Palmerston who originally said that Britain has no friends, only interests.
The alien powers, both on the Council and not, will support and ally with humanity when they believe it is in their interests to do so, and will oppose and war with humanity for the same reason.  And the history of ME has shown that wholesale extermination of entire planetary populations and even entire species is very much on the table in a major war.

[Someone With Mass]

Quole wrote...
What race wants to attack us? I have no problem being prepared IN CASE one does, but that does not mean we need to resort to terrorism.

We also already have one of the largest fleets (besides the Reapers) in Citadel space. There's nothing any race can earn by attacking us unless it's out of spite.

[Quole]

General User wrote...

Quole wrote...

What race wants to attack us? I have no problem being prepared IN CASE one does, but that does not mean we need to resort to terrorism.

You're right we do not need to resort to terrorism.  Black ops on the other hand are time-honored and vital tools in any sort of "international" (or "interstellar" in this case) arena.

I believe it was Lord Palmerston who originally said that Britain has no friends, only interests.
The alien powers, both on the Council and not, will support and ally with humanity when they believe it is in their interests to do so, and will oppose and war with humanity for the same reason.  And the history of ME has shown that wholesale extermination of entire planetary populations and even entire species is very much on the table in a major war.

lol? The only times they did that were against the rachni and the Krogan and that was because both were a significant threat to all life in the galaxy. There reasons for doing what they did were completely justified. If humantiy did something similar, then it would get what it deserves. So no, we dont need cerberus to protect us against the other races. If anything cerberus would make them turn on us.

Modifié par Quole, 30 novembre 2011 - 12:57 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Quole wrote...

What race wants to attack us? I have no problem being prepared IN CASE one does, but that does not mean we need to resort to terrorism.

Let's see, the batarians want our colonies and to enslave us, the turians may still be bitter about the First Contact War, the salarians have a strike-first policy regarding factions they consider to be a threat. That's without a formal declaration of war, by the way.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 30 novembre 2011 - 12:58 .

[Quole]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Quole wrote...

What race wants to attack us? I have no problem being prepared IN CASE one does, but that does not mean we need to resort to terrorism.

Let's see, the batarians want our colonies and to enslave us, the turians may still be bitter about the First Contact War, the salarians have a strike-first policy regarding factions they consider to be a threat.

And the batarians arent much of a threat to us anyway. How is cerberus making the situation better? Did you just disregard everything else I said?

Modifié par Quole, 30 novembre 2011 - 12:59 .

[Sgt Stryker]

You asked if there were alien races that were a threat to humanity, and I answered. I neither justified nor vilified Cerberus in my comment.

Quole wrote...

And the batarians arent much of a threat to us anyway.

Tell that to the people of Terra Nova, Mindoir, and Elysium.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 30 novembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[General User]

mauro2222 wrote...

General User wrote...

The thing about him (by which I assume you mean TIM) is he probably isn't the ultimately the right man for the job.  But he's the one who, as the Americans say, stepped to the plate.

I never said anything about anyone attacking anyone else or anyone being fearful of anyone else.  Just that the galaxy is what it is.

Nope, I wasn't even thinking about him... I asked you why you think that a "champion" is needed.

Oh!  Well then in that case, a champion is needed because nothing is given and things (including entire species) only endure as long as someone is willing to stand-up for them.

mauro2222 wrote...
Yeah, he might "stepped to the plate", that doesn't mean that he is right or that he deserves this "champion" position.

Of course you're correct.    And when someone else wants a "turn at bat" first step is probably going to be dealing with TIM

[Quole]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

You asked if there were alien races that were a threat to humanity, and I answered. I neither justified nor vilified Cerberus in my comment.

Okay... that dosnt prove anything though. My point is that the only racce really wants to fight humanity right now are the batarians and not only are they not that much of a threat but cerberus would not help in that at all.

[DiebytheSword]

General User wrote...
Of course you're correct.    And when someone else wants a "turn at bat" first step is probably going to be dealing with TIM

And lo came Mass Effect 3, wherein Shepard took the bat and stared TIM straight in the mechanical eyes.

[Someone With Mass]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Let's see, the batarians want our colonies and to enslave us, the turians may still be bitter about the First Contact War, the salarians have a strike-first policy regarding factions they consider to be a threat. That's without a formal declaration of war, by the way.

Dude, there's one turian that wants to name his firstborn after me and another who'll gladly walk through hell if I ask him to. I don't think they'll start a war over something dead in the past.

The batarians are pretty much extinct as a race as of ME3 and we kicked their asses hard on several occasions so...eh.

The salarian STG have a plan of attack for pretty much every race out there, because that's what they do. They plan ahead.

[Quole]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

You asked if there were alien races that were a threat to humanity, and I answered. I neither justified nor vilified Cerberus in my comment.

Quole wrote...

And the batarians arent much of a threat to us anyway.

Tell that to the people of Terra Nova, Mindoir, and Elysium.

Your point? A war with the batarians would be over fast.

[General User]

Quole wrote...

General User wrote...

Quole wrote...

What race wants to attack us? I have no problem being prepared IN CASE one does, but that does not mean we need to resort to terrorism.

You're right we do not need to resort to terrorism.  Black ops on the other hand are time-honored and vital tools in any sort of "international" (or "interstellar" in this case) arena.

I believe it was Lord Palmerston who originally said that Britain has no friends, only interests.
The alien powers, both on the Council and not, will support and ally with humanity when they believe it is in their interests to do so, and will oppose and war with humanity for the same reason.  And the history of ME has shown that wholesale extermination of entire planetary populations and even entire species is very much on the table in a major war.

lol? The only times they did that were against the rachni and the Krogan and that was because both were a significant threat to all life in the galaxy. There reasons for doing what they did were completely justified. If humantiy did something similar, then it would get what it deserves. So no, we dont need cerberus to protect us against the other races. If anything cerberus would make them turn on us.

Then we are at an impasse.  In my philosophy there is no justification is good enough for exterminating an entire race, and precious little justification for some of the other monstrous things the Council races have collectively done over the years. 

Does that make me a Paragon or a Renegade?

[Quole]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dude, there's one turian that wants to name his firstborn after me and another who'll gladly walk through hell if I ask him to. I don't think they'll start a war over something dead in the past.

Exactly. So humanity has nothing to fear by consolidating its own power.

The problem with cerberus is that by `consolidating` its own power, it includes murdering innocent people. Lots of people. The irony is that they claim to be doing whats best for humanity by doing things that humanity knows is wrong. not to mention, as you said, it isnt necessary. So why do it? It just makes people hate you. Like I said, if anything cerberus will just make everyone turn on us.

Modifié par Quole, 30 novembre 2011 - 01:14 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Let's see, the batarians want our colonies and to enslave us, the turians may still be bitter about the First Contact War, the salarians have a strike-first policy regarding factions they consider to be a threat. That's without a formal declaration of war, by the way.

Dude, there's one turian that wants to name his firstborn after me and another who'll gladly walk through hell if I ask him to. I don't think they'll start a war over something dead in the past.

The batarians are pretty much extinct as a race as of ME3 and we kicked their asses hard on several occasions so...eh.

The salarian STG have a plan of attack for pretty much every race out there, because that's what they do. They plan ahead.

On turians: I consider myself a Russian-American, and I have relatives who still live in Russia. That doesn't mean the CIA should ignore what Russia's military capabilities are, or what kind of political developments are going on over there.

On batarians: I was talking about the pre-ME3 political landscape. I can't comment on post-ME3, because there's no telling what will come out of the fires of the Reaper War.

Salarians have the right approach. They plan ahead, and so should we.

[Sgt Stryker]

Quole wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

You asked if there were alien races that were a threat to humanity, and I answered. I neither justified nor vilified Cerberus in my comment.

Okay... that dosnt prove anything though. My point is that the only racce really wants to fight humanity right now are the batarians and not only are they not that much of a threat but cerberus would not help in that at all.

I dunno, we could let their geeks dissect some batarian corpses, figure out what makes them tick, and develop more efficient methods of making them stop ticking, if it comes to open war. Note that I said corpses, not living batarians.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 30 novembre 2011 - 01:16 .

[Quole]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Quole wrote...

The problem with cerberus is that by `consolidating` its own power, it includes murdering innocent people.

Well if you're going to make an omelette you have to break some eggs.

Now if humanity NEEDED to do that then maybe it would be okay. However, it really isnt necessary. Read all of what I said in my post.

Modifié par Quole, 30 novembre 2011 - 01:17 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Exactly. So humanity has nothing to fear by consolidating its own power.

Increasing the fleets, that's fine, but don't torture people and expect to get away with it. It'll only bite you in the ass when you're making decisions for a party you have no goddamn control over and that is also independant of you.

If you make humanity as a whole look bad because you can't keep yourself in check, don't weep when the hammer comes down.