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[AtreiyaN7]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Everyone loves to heap on accusations at the end of ME2 for some reason.

What did TIM say or do that indicated he was interested in personal power? If he wanted power he'd have an identity instead of purposefully maintaining a low profile.

PARAGON
TIM: "The technology from that base could have secured human dominance in the galaxy - against the Reapers and beyond."
Shepard: "Human dominance, or just Cerberus?"
TIM: "Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human. Cerberus is humanity."

TIM's final line: "Don't turn your back on me, Shepard. I made you - I brought you back from the dead."

Those bits of dialogue made me believe that TIM has ulterior motives beyond just defeating the Reapers. TIM sidesteps Shepard's question, but he clearly equates Cerberus with humanity...and he's the head of Cerberus. I've always had the feeling that he, perhaps, views himself as a leader/potential leader of humanity. And his final line would seem to indicate that he's asserting dominance over Paragon Shepard after being angered over having his desire to possess the Collector base thwarted. Then there's the fact that he lied/hid the truth from Shepard prior to this (vis-a-vis the argument/discussion after escaping from the Collector ship).

Maybe you're happy to trust someone who has lied/omitted the truth and whose motives are opaque, but I don't. Sure, he could have humanity's best interests at heart - anything's possible - but lots of dictators, autocrats and thugs have said they've had the best interests of their people at heart too. And I'm sure that everyone believed them until the blood of their own people started flowing.

[SNascimento]

About number 1), I'll just copy what I wrote in other topic:
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It's my understanding that the best way the galaxy can be organized is the one where the strongest specie rules surpreme. The explanation to why only one race should rule can be found in the prothean's history. Their galaxy was dominated only by them and given the fact that the actual galaxy is populated by more than a dozen intelligent species, it's safe to say the protheans subjugated or even exterminated other races. And why did they accomplish with this? A arguably bigger civilization than the currect one in our galaxy and certanly a more advanced nation. They were probably the strongest specie to fight the reapers (no other race cracked the keepers) and I have a theory they might still have a secret agenda.
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About number 2), Humanity should expand untill it mets its limits, which are probably the entire galaxy.
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And number 3), well, having an elected individual occupying a public place doesn't mean he will have the best interests of the people in mind. With a similar logic, one that is not elected democraticallu can work for the greater good.

[Xilizhra]

You just pissed away the biggest potential strategic advantage in human history

Not in his hands.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You just pissed away the biggest potential strategic advantage in human history

Not in his hands.

TIM is the best person to hold it. He and Cerberus as a whole are visionaries.

Unfortunately, I can't really reply to this without spoilers.

[AtreiyaN7]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

TIM's final line: "Don't turn your back on me, Shepard. I made you - I brought you back from the dead."

You just pissed away the biggest potential strategic advantage in human history and tried to pass it off as a righteous act. I don't blame him for losing his temper, especially when he invested so much money on you. Shame on him.

Cerberus being humanity is a figure of speech and in ME2 it is accurate. Without Cerberus in ME2 humanity would have been finished. They were helpless without Cerberus.

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Those bits of dialogue made me believe that TIM has ulterior motives beyond just defeating the Reapers.

Wow, you must be some kind of genius. Are you telling me that a human positive agenda extends beyond just the Reapers? Stop the presses!

Oh, you're so hilarious. I think the implications based on his overall behavior are that that "agenda" beyond defeating the Reapers is likely a personal agenda more than a desire to advance humanity's cause. But hey, everyone's entitled to blindly follow whomever they choose to follow.

EDIT: Also, you're completely ignoring every terrible thing that Cerberus has done from ME1 on, but hey, with your apparent belief in what's right for humankind, I'm sure you'd probably approve of testing chemical or biological weapons on humans and/or sentient aliens if TIM decreed it.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 12 novembre 2011 - 04:03 .

[armass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You just pissed away the biggest potential strategic advantage in human history

Not in his hands.

TIM is the best person to hold it. He and Cerberus as a whole are visionaries.

I doubt it, hehe...

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You just pissed away the biggest potential strategic advantage in human history

Not in his hands.

TIM is the best person to hold it. He and Cerberus as a whole are visionaries.

Unfortunately, I can't really reply to this without spoilers.

Which would be metagaming, so go find yourself a valid in-universe argument, hun.

[GMagnum]

dam kaiser shepard going hella hard rite now tbh

[Xilizhra]

Which would be metagaming, so go find yourself a valid in-universe argument, hun.

One hardly needs metagaming to see TIM as utterly untrustworthy and to not hand him the means of creating Reapers.

[General User]

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

[dreman9999]

sponge56 wrote...

what a charming and sophisticated fellow you are

But he's right. Every peice of teck, ever biotic and every weopon we have for the alliance is because of cerberus. As much as I hate them, with out them we would not even beable to start to fight back.

[Xilizhra]

General User wrote...

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

The Council has many dark aspects, Cerberus is one gigantic dark aspect.

[dreman9999]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

TIM's done pretty well?

No. No he hasn't. His one and only true success was the Lazarus Project. Everything else Cerberus has put its hand to has either backfired or just succeeded in a minimal way.

Part 1 of The biotic program.
Project normandy.

[dreman9999]

Xilizhra wrote...

General User wrote...

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

The Council has many dark aspects, Cerberus is one gigantic dark aspect.

Cerberus is the Alliance dark side.

[Xilizhra]

dreman9999 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

General User wrote...

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

The Council has many dark aspects, Cerberus is one gigantic dark aspect.

Cerberus is the Alliance dark side.

Also true. I don't trust the Alliance because of this.

[dreman9999]

jollyorigins wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

TIM's final line: "Don't turn your back on me, Shepard. I made you - I brought you back from the dead."

You just pissed away the biggest potential strategic advantage in human history and tried to pass it off as a righteous act. I don't blame him for losing his temper, especially when he invested so much money on you. Shame on him.

Cerberus being humanity is a figure of speech and in ME2 it is accurate. Without Cerberus in ME2 humanity would have been finished. They were helpless without Cerberus.

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I highly doubt that, the Collectors only cherrypicked small human colonies where defense wasn't very strong. Lets remember that their fleet was just one ship, that can get destroyed by a frigate-class ship (regardless of the thanix upgrade). If they went for any of the big colonies, or into council space they would have been annihilated.

Then again ME2's plot was a complete screw up.

1. That ship was the most advance ship in the galaxy out side of what the collectors had.
2. That ship barely beat the collector ship.

[DiebytheSword]

Xilizhra wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

General User wrote...

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

The Council has many dark aspects, Cerberus is one gigantic dark aspect.

Cerberus is the Alliance dark side.

Also true. I don't trust the Alliance because of this.

A people trusting its government is a recipie for tyranny.

[dreman9999]

Xilizhra wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

General User wrote...

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

The Council has many dark aspects, Cerberus is one gigantic dark aspect.

Cerberus is the Alliance dark side.

Also true. I don't trust the Alliance because of this.

And why should you. With the SB at your side, your the most powerful person in the galaxy. Be on your own side.

[Xilizhra]

Reply in PM if you wish. I already know all the spoilers and I'm still on board (in essence anyway).

Yes, you wanted to capitulate to the Reapers.