1381 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

General User wrote...

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

The Council has many dark aspects, Cerberus is one gigantic dark aspect.

Cerberus is the Alliance dark side.

Also true. I don't trust the Alliance because of this.

A people trusting its government is a recipie for tyranny.

But people being part of the government is a recipe for democracy....Unfortunately War does not work like that.

[Yuoaman]

Just because TIM is doing something doesn't mean that the Alliance can't - the only reason they can't do anything really is because TIM is holding back information and paying off people high up in the Alliance. Everything TIM does sabotages the Alliance because he wants to be in charge.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Reply in PM if you wish. I already know all the spoilers and I'm still on board (in essence anyway).

Yes, you wanted to capitulate to the Reapers.

It is more complicated than that. You know that, or should. It seems everybody mischaracterizes my position.

Truly Sovereign was right when he said his kind were unknowable to you. Incomprehensible. However he wasn't talking to me or the Illusive Man.

Oh, right. You wanted to capitulate to the Reapers because you felt humans being liquefied into Ascension while slaughtering everyone else was better than humans maybe being beaten out in a Reaper-based tech race by other species.

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

General User wrote...

My opinion in a nutshell: Cerberus is the symptom, the Council is the disease.

The Council has many dark aspects, Cerberus is one gigantic dark aspect.

They don't call 'em "black ops" for nuthin'!

[dreman9999]

Yuoaman wrote...

Just because TIM is doing something doesn't mean that the Alliance can't - the only reason they can't do anything really is because TIM is holding back information and paying off people high up in the Alliance. Everything TIM does sabotages the Alliance because he wants to be in charge.

He is not sabataging the Alliance. He's keeping in the shadow of it. If it was a cerberus vs Alliance conflict, with the way Cerberus can get into the alliance, the alliance would of been taken down years ago.
The consept of cerberus is making a devil so their can be angels. Cerberus was made to harness and make all the messy experiment that would of gotten the alliance kicked out of the citidel. It was made so if anyone one found out about what cerberus was doing, the alliance could easilly disown cerberus and still take in all the advancements and tech cerberus makes.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, right. You wanted to capitulate to the Reapers because you felt humans being liquefied into Ascension while slaughtering everyone else was better than humans maybe being beaten out in a Reaper-based tech race by other species.

Yes! Don't you understand? It is inevitable! Reaper tech will consume is one form or another. You aren't looking at the big picture. Almost nobody is.

Singularity is the end of us no matter whether we submit now or not. However if we wait until later there is no guarantee of anything being preserved. Our legacy could end.

Nothing is inevitable. And if we fight and lose, the outcome will be the same as if we surrendered, so it'll work out regardless.

Plus, I'm not willing to destroy everyone else's legacies, or people, to increase the chance of our own legacy, without people, surviving.

[mauro2222]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, right. You wanted to capitulate to the Reapers because you felt humans being liquefied into Ascension while slaughtering everyone else was better than humans maybe being beaten out in a Reaper-based tech race by other species.

Yes! Don't you understand? It is inevitable! Reaper tech will consume is one form or another. You aren't looking at the big picture. Almost nobody is.

Singularity is the end of us no matter whether we submit now or not. However if we wait until later there is no guarantee of anything being preserved. Our legacy could end.

I like you, you're funny

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Nothing is inevitable. And if we fight and lose, the outcome will be the same as if we surrendered, so it'll work out regardless.

So you support senseless violence? Yours is the path of uncertainty. Luck. We talked about this before.

And I will win, as before.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And I will win, as before.

Your confidence is the product of the ignorance you wallow in.

We shall see.

[Yuoaman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Nothing is inevitable. And if we fight and lose, the outcome will be the same as if we surrendered, so it'll work out regardless.

So you support senseless violence? Yours is the path of uncertainty. Luck. We talked about this before.

FIghting to survive isn't senseless.

[dreman9999]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, right. You wanted to capitulate to the Reapers because you felt humans being liquefied into Ascension while slaughtering everyone else was better than humans maybe being beaten out in a Reaper-based tech race by other species.

Yes! Don't you understand? It is inevitable! Reaper tech will consume is one form or another. You aren't looking at the big picture. Almost nobody is.

Singularity is the end of us no matter whether we submit now or not. However if we wait until later there is no guarantee of anything being preserved. Our legacy could end.

I can't beleive I'm saying this but...I agree. The reason why is the consept of growth of technology. Look at how we treat tech now, we can't live with out it easilly. Soon, we will bw making it one with are bodies by choice. Look at Shepard and Gray boxes. The tech is getting united with  human more then we can ever imagine. I read bookes with this very Idea and their is a very famous anime about this. The book is"Old man's war and Ghost bergad" which the character had a computer in their mind that communicated with one another down to their feeling, with people born with it and going mad when it shut off. And Ghost in the shell that illustated the consept that at some point thehuman race will beone with the tools they make.
They way Shepard was rebuild, you can't argue that their is some turth to it. The reapers are our furture, one way or another.

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

And Ghost in the shell that illustated the consept that at some point thehuman race will beone with the tools they make.

This reminds me of Deus Ex: HR ending. I choosed Darrow's message because it was the best one, technology is created to enhance our limits, but when "we" become the technology, when we transform ourselves from operator to tool... we are doomed to extintion.

[Virginian]

Humanity is under attack by the Collectors.

Council does absolutely nothing.

Cerberus sends in the best and the brightest violating their human only principle to save humanity from the Collectors.

Alliance sends a girl to set up some sentry guns and to investigate Cerberus as the cause of humanity's trouble.

Who has humanity's back when evil aliens wants to destroy it?

Alliance? No.

Council? No.

Cerberus? The only one.

They have questionable morals and actions but they do the job when no one else will. When it comes to the survival of humanity the ends justify the means.

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And Ghost in the shell that illustated the consept that at some point thehuman race will beone with the tools they make.

This reminds me of Deus Ex: HR ending. I choosed Darrow's message because it was the best one, technology is created to enhance our limits, but when "we" become the technology, when we transform ourselves from operator to tool... we are doomed to extintion.

One would only say that If they are not in a hostal envirment that does not need the tools. Also, the consept of the ideal is limited by the tech. What if the teck letyou be one with everyone else more than you can ever imagion, to the point you truelly understand everyone, to the point that all that is left is perspective?

[dreman9999]

Virginian wrote...

Humanity is under attack by the Collectors.

Council does absolutely nothing.

Cerberus sends in the best and the brightest violating their human only principle to save humanity from the Collectors.

Alliance sends a girl to set up some sentry guns and to investigate Cerberus as the cause of humanity's trouble.

Who has humanity's back when evil aliens wants to destroy it?

Alliance? No.

Council? No.

Cerberus? The only one.

They have questionable morals and actions but they do the job when no one else will. When it comes to the survival of humanity the ends justify the means.

Cerberus is the Alliance.

[Yuoaman]

Saph, if you want to surrender to the Reapers I'm not going to stop you.

[dreman9999]

Yuoaman wrote...

Saph, if you want to surrender to the Reapers I'm not going to stop you.

I don't think he means surrendering to the reaper. Just that we are ending up like the reapers no matter what. In the end it will be by choice.

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

One would only say that If they are not in a hostal envirment that does not need the tools.

I didn't say that technology is bad or must be eradicated, it's our mean to survive in the open. Technology are our claws, our muscle, our speed, our poison.

dreman9999 wrote...
Also, the consept of the ideal is limited by the tech. What if the teck
letyou be one with everyone else more than you can ever imagion, to the
point you truelly understand everyone, to the point that all that is
left is perspective?

I'm talking with Helios now?

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I think Cerberus could have been an excellent Pro-Human organization if they didn’t go overboard with their different ‘cell’ groups going rouge. Their ‘extremist’ experiments going public didn’t help much either. The Council and Alliance Parliament reminds me of the USA Congress and President. Nothing gets done because they do not want to upset their voter base by working with other ‘parties’ or losing their ‘ground’ in what they believe is right for the human race stationed in North America. It’s a fair comparison to a certain degree. In-game Council sits on their butts awaiting the perfect opportunity that makes the Council look good in the eyes of their people; otherwise they sit there while nothing above their status quo gets done. Cerberus believes what it is doing is right, and they try to get their job done, no matter the cost. In theory, that is what more organizations need to do. Cerberus went the wrong way about it, so it comes back to bite them because they went overboard with everything. If I was a race that could benefit from the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), I would accept their help because overall it is to help advance myself and my race but if that organization was known to experiment on those races to try to make the race more physically or mentally superior with thousands of subjects dying along the way, would it change your outlook on it? Well, I think I may be getting off-topic so I think I’ll stop comparing things. Cerberus made Mass Effect 2 and to a lesser extent; Mass Effect 3 possible. Hell, they brought all our Sheps’ back to life so they deserve so kind of salute for doing something while the Alliance and Council said ‘R.I.P. Shep’. Talk about not giving up; no matter the motive. But sometimes, Miranda always convinced me to agree with her.. It might be her eyes....

Edit:
I don't want to seem like a troll but if we didn't have to save Joker's butt, would we have needed Cerberus?

Modifié par XEternalXDreamsX, 12 novembre 2011 - 05:09 .