1381 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuoaman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

I seriously just don't even have a ****ing clue sometimes.

That much is obvious.

IanPolaris wrote...

So how can you call an organization a "defender of humanity" when it wants to hasten the very thing that will destroy our humanity?

-Polaris

Humanity and humans are not necessarily the same thing. What will be in the future will not be human but it will be humanity. The next stage of human if you will. Our cousins, our descendants.

No. I understand the situation. I don't understand how in the goddamn hell you are reaching any of these conclusions.

So they'd be human.

[Yuoaman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Human has a pretty strict definition. A human is a biological organism. "Humanity" however is more of a concept.

noun, plural -ties.
1.
all human beings collectively; the human race; humankind.

Alright, sure.

Modifié par Yuoaman, 12 novembre 2011 - 06:02 .

[FFinfinity1]

Cerberus only believes in enhancing its own power, if the reapers didn't stand in the way of that, then TIM could care less about them. Also They are all 100% fanatical in their beliefs towards human dominance and the fact that TIM made an army that is devote on hindering Shepard for some odd reason proves they want to stop him so they can remain in power.

They even performed indoctrination experiments on HUMANS, all they believe in is themselves...

[XEternalXDreamsX]

We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Edit -
Sorry, I was thinking humanity as the nature of human emotions rather than humanity as in the human race.

Modifié par XEternalXDreamsX, 12 novembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[Yuoaman]

That's obviously the next step of humanity.

Obviously.

[Kaiser Shepard]

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

Is Cerberus a useful organization? Sure. After all, they brought Shepard back from the dead. Are they by any means a good organization? Hell no, and I would relish the chance to blow it up.

Humanity needs to be on par with the council races, but that will take time, not terrorism and douchebaggery.

How does anything Cerberus has ever done constitute "terrorism"?

[mauro2222]

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Exactly, fighting for humanity while losing it... what's the point? We are dead anyway without our humanity.

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Whichis why the reapers are our future.
2.Not ture at all. The only thing lost is the consept of being alone. Thr geth are still free individual, which is clear in the very fact that they can disagree with one another. The problem is that that reapers want to force the change.

1. Maybe, but not the Reapers we know, they are not our tech... and our culture is not ready.

2. I was talking about the reapers, the geth are one being, they always have been. They don't disagree because they aren't individuals, they reach concensus based on the data gathered by mobile platforms, they are still one being that gathers all information from it's roots, and then, it decides the most logical path. They may have become 2 different individuals when they separated in true geth and heretic geth. But we still don't know how that happened.
The reapers take all individuals and force them to be one.

1. But weare using reaper teck.....Everything in ME is reaper tech.

2. We don't know the full detail of what they are doing with the tech. Remeber, they do want to turn people in to reapers. What does the body of the person matter?

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Whichis why the reapers are our future.
2.Not ture at all. The only thing lost is the consept of being alone. Thr geth are still free individual, which is clear in the very fact that they can disagree with one another. The problem is that that reapers want to force the change.

1. Maybe, but not the Reapers we know, they are not our tech... and our culture is not ready.

2. I was talking about the reapers, the geth are one being, they always have been. They don't disagree because they aren't individuals, they reach concensus based on the data gathered by mobile platforms, they are still one being that gathers all information from it's roots, and then, it decides the most logical path. They may have become 2 different individuals when they separated in true geth and heretic geth. But we still don't know how that happened.
The reapers take all individuals and force them to be one.

1. But weare using reaper teck.....Everything in ME is reaper tech.

2. We don't know the full detail of what they are doing with the tech. Remeber, they do want to turn people in to reapers. What does the body of the person matter?

1º But I was talking about our reality, not the universe of Mass Effect.

2º I don't care about my body... well, yes... but that's not the point. Sovereign said "We are each a nation" I don't know if this means that every reaper is one, or that previosly individual beings remain as such within the Reaper shell. I want my opinion to matter.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

mauro2222 wrote...

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Exactly, fighting for humanity while losing it... what's the point? We are dead anyway without our humanity.

I agree 100%. What makes us different from everything else is the fact that we feel compassion and empathy without it just being "programmed" for our benefits. By the way, aren't the Reapers using humans as fossil fuel for their tech?

[Yuoaman]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Whichis why the reapers are our future.
2.Not ture at all. The only thing lost is the consept of being alone. Thr geth are still free individual, which is clear in the very fact that they can disagree with one another. The problem is that that reapers want to force the change.

1. Maybe, but not the Reapers we know, they are not our tech... and our culture is not ready.

2. I was talking about the reapers, the geth are one being, they always have been. They don't disagree because they aren't individuals, they reach concensus based on the data gathered by mobile platforms, they are still one being that gathers all information from it's roots, and then, it decides the most logical path. They may have become 2 different individuals when they separated in true geth and heretic geth. But we still don't know how that happened.
The reapers take all individuals and force them to be one.

1. But weare using reaper teck.....Everything in ME is reaper tech.

2. We don't know the full detail of what they are doing with the tech. Remeber, they do want to turn people in to reapers. What does the body of the person matter?

1º But I was talking about our reality, not the universe of Mass Effect.

2º I don't care about my body... well, yes... but that's not the point. Sovereign said "We are each a nation" I don't know if this means that every reaper is one, or that previosly individual beings remain as such within the Reaper shell. I want my opinion to matter.

I'm pretty sure that it meant something similar to how the geth are networked - with each mind forming something like a synapse that can, on some small level, make decisions on their own. My best guess is that all of the minds are indoctrinated in some fashion and are probably much more often in agreement than from what we've seen in geth - though this is just my theory.

[mauro2222]

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

I agree 100%. What makes us different from everything else is the fact that we feel compassion and empathy without it just being "programmed" for our benefits. By the way, aren't the Reapers using humans as fossil fuel for their tech?

From what we know, it's something like that... but it seems that the "essence" of a species becomes the Reaper. A million became one.

[marshalleck]

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Edit -
Sorry, I was thinking humanity as the nature of human emotions rather than humanity as in the human race.

Compassion and empathy are fine enough qualities in balanced doses, but they do not and should not comprise the totality of what it means to be human.

[Sajuro]

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Everybody discriminates against somebody else I admit, however that was not my point whatsoever.  The Turians, Asari, Salarians etc are not supremacist,

Actually they are. They judge races to be worthy or not of represenation and authority. They regard all those below them as "lesser". Cerberus is not supremacist in the least. It doesn't judge the other races at all.

What part of the whole Cerberus agenda of "subjugate or wipe out the other races" that was repeated so frequently throughout retribution do you not understaand.

[marshalleck]

Sajuro wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Everybody discriminates against somebody else I admit, however that was not my point whatsoever.  The Turians, Asari, Salarians etc are not supremacist,

Actually they are. They judge races to be worthy or not of represenation and authority. They regard all those below them as "lesser". Cerberus is not supremacist in the least. It doesn't judge the other races at all.

What part of the whole Cerberus agenda of "subjugate or wipe out the other races" that was repeated so frequently throughout retribution do you not understaand.

I read Retribution and I don't remember much of that. I think you're letting your imagination get all worked up to feed your self-righteous indignation. 

Gotta pick on those space-naz.is, amirite!?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Sajuro wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Everybody discriminates against somebody else I admit, however that was not my point whatsoever.  The Turians, Asari, Salarians etc are not supremacist,

Actually they are. They judge races to be worthy or not of represenation and authority. They regard all those below them as "lesser". Cerberus is not supremacist in the least. It doesn't judge the other races at all.

What part of the whole Cerberus agenda of "subjugate or wipe out the other races" that was repeated so frequently throughout retribution do you not understaand.

Ah yes, killing just the one asari goes a long way towards achieving that.

[marshalleck]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Everybody discriminates against somebody else I admit, however that was not my point whatsoever.  The Turians, Asari, Salarians etc are not supremacist,

Actually they are. They judge races to be worthy or not of represenation and authority. They regard all those below them as "lesser". Cerberus is not supremacist in the least. It doesn't judge the other races at all.

What part of the whole Cerberus agenda of "subjugate or wipe out the other races" that was repeated so frequently throughout retribution do you not understaand.

Ah yes, killing just the one asari goes a long way towards achieving that.

Sounds like genocide to me!

* emphasis on the buzzword to heighten your paranoia and fear

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 novembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

mauro2222 wrote...

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...
We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Exactly, fighting for humanity while losing it... what's the point? We are dead anyway without our humanity.

Yet they aren't "losing their humanity" or anything like that. That isn't the goal of Cerberus. Rather it is about creating a stronger, united humanity. It's about replacing the incompetent politicians and bickering nations that comprise the Systems Alliance with something greater. Empathy and compassion don't factor into this. It's about strength, determination, courage, and cunning. Ensuring that humanity isn't the pawn of some other species.

Cerberus has its flaws for sure, but I'd rather work with them to change the course of human history instead of going back to the same old Systems Alliance with all of its Udinas and Andersons.

[Sajuro]

marshalleck wrote...

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Edit -
Sorry, I was thinking humanity as the nature of human emotions rather than humanity as in the human race.

Compassion and empathy are fine enough qualities in balanced doses, but they do not and should not comprise the totality of what it means to be human.

Would you advocate for humanity to lose its compassion and empathy? Our strength is that we are a balance of things like empathy and things like ambition. When people discard empathy, sure they can advance, with less compunctions about the harm that comes to other people, but while they do well the net loss is greater for everyone else. Abandoning Ambition is bad also because that is why Humanity is where it is, not only in ME, but also in the real world because we were the craziest animals in the jungle and wouldn't stop until we got what we wanted.
What Cerberus wants to do is ultimately zero sum, take the power from the other races and give it to humanity, wipe out or run tests on those who resist you and anyone who disagrees is ultimately a race traitor. The question is: after humanity becomes the dominant force in the galaxy, what then? We will be ruling over a barren and war ravaged galaxy full of either dead aliens or aliens that hate us. What happens when someone in the galactic human empire decides they would serve humanity better and want a piece of the power pie for themselves (the whole damn thing)?

[lolerk53]

 Actually about the fleet...
I remember from the books it says that the council races are afraid of how fast we are growing in power (both millitary and political).
It says that in about 30 years humans will have a fleet strong enough to take on the council races fleets.... combined.
And what happens in the  books is in the year 26** so only 10 years left....

Modifié par lolerk53, 12 novembre 2011 - 06:58 .

[Sajuro]

marshalleck wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Everybody discriminates against somebody else I admit, however that was not my point whatsoever.  The Turians, Asari, Salarians etc are not supremacist,

Actually they are. They judge races to be worthy or not of represenation and authority. They regard all those below them as "lesser". Cerberus is not supremacist in the least. It doesn't judge the other races at all.

What part of the whole Cerberus agenda of "subjugate or wipe out the other races" that was repeated so frequently throughout retribution do you not understaand.

I read Retribution and I don't remember much of that. I think you're letting your imagination get all worked up to feed your self-righteous indignation. 

Gotta pick on those space-naz.is, amirite!?

Actually Aria mentioned it in both her monologues to Kai Leng and The Illusive Man if I am right, also I remember rolling my eyes as Kai Leng's inner thoughts basically turned into "Damn Turians, wanting us to open up the suspicious packages, damn asari wanting to take my coat, damn asari trying to defend herself, damn volus, being so round and pudgy." Also TIM's comment about how he viewed it as a betrayal of humanity that people would buy Salarian Cigars.

[marshalleck]

Sajuro wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Edit -
Sorry, I was thinking humanity as the nature of human emotions rather than humanity as in the human race.

Compassion and empathy are fine enough qualities in balanced doses, but they do not and should not comprise the totality of what it means to be human.

Would you advocate for humanity to lose its compassion and empathy? Our strength is that we are a balance of things like empathy and things like ambition. When people discard empathy, sure they can advance, with less compunctions about the harm that comes to other people, but while they do well the net loss is greater for everyone else. Abandoning Ambition is bad also because that is why Humanity is where it is, not only in ME, but also in the real world because we were the craziest animals in the jungle and wouldn't stop until we got what we wanted.
What Cerberus wants to do is ultimately zero sum, take the power from the other races and give it to humanity, wipe out or run tests on those who resist you and anyone who disagrees is ultimately a race traitor. The question is: after humanity becomes the dominant force in the galaxy, what then? We will be ruling over a barren and war ravaged galaxy full of either dead aliens or aliens that hate us. What happens when someone in the galactic human empire decides they would serve humanity better and want a piece of the power pie for themselves (the whole damn thing)?

See, you're letting your imagination run wild again, so I'm going to ignore most of this post as it's a waste of bytes.

I wouldn't advocate "for humanity to lose its compassion and empathy." Saying they aren't the sole human quality is not saying they should be entirely disregarded. Compassion and empathy for your friends, vengeance and anger for your enemies. 

[marshalleck]

Sajuro wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

Everybody discriminates against somebody else I admit, however that was not my point whatsoever.  The Turians, Asari, Salarians etc are not supremacist,

Actually they are. They judge races to be worthy or not of represenation and authority. They regard all those below them as "lesser". Cerberus is not supremacist in the least. It doesn't judge the other races at all.

What part of the whole Cerberus agenda of "subjugate or wipe out the other races" that was repeated so frequently throughout retribution do you not understaand.

I read Retribution and I don't remember much of that. I think you're letting your imagination get all worked up to feed your self-righteous indignation. 

Gotta pick on those space-naz.is, amirite!?

Actually Aria mentioned it in both her monologues to Kai Leng and The Illusive Man if I am right, also I remember rolling my eyes as Kai Leng's inner thoughts basically turned into "Damn Turians, wanting us to open up the suspicious packages, damn asari wanting to take my coat, damn asari trying to defend herself, damn volus, being so round and pudgy." Also TIM's comment about how he viewed it as a betrayal of humanity that people would buy Salarian Cigars.

Kai Leng is not representative of the average Cerberus personel. If he were, they would have taken over the galaxy already. Also, TIM is obviously such a huge jerk for not liking salarian cigars. I hear Hitler didn't like salarian cigars either.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

ReconTeam wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...
We've already destroyed Mars and moved to Earth. Now we are finishing this planet off... where to next? Okay, okay.. stupid joke. But seriously Saphra, does Cerberus have some kind of humility when it comes to their operations ..sacrifice humility so humanity can go up a notch? I'm not saying Cerberus or TIM is wrong.. just wondering what your outlook is on that. Aren't the Cerberus organization losing their humanity (compassion, empathy, ect) in the process?

Exactly, fighting for humanity while losing it... what's the point? We are dead anyway without our humanity.

Yet they aren't "losing their humanity" or anything like that. That isn't the goal of Cerberus. Rather it is about creating a stronger, united humanity. It's about replacing the incompetent politicians and bickering nations that comprise the Systems Alliance with something greater. Empathy and compassion don't factor into this. It's about strength, determination, courage, and cunning. Ensuring that humanity isn't the pawn of some other species.

Cerberus has its flaws for sure, but I'd rather work with them to change the course of human history instead of going back to the same old Systems Alliance with all of its Udinas and Andersons.

Depending if I'm the receiving end of Cerberus' stick, I could agree that Cerberus could really push humans into dominance over other species but once they secure dominance over everything, they will have a harder time maintaining that dominant position. The Udinas and Andersons may move at a slower pace for power and control, they are doing it while trying to maintain the respect of all species so once they are in the most dominant position, they will have an easier time trying to get everything else lined up in the backdrop. Without the Reaper threat, Cerberus looks like a flithy organization with unethical standards but with the Reaper threat, they look like they have the ability to get things done without worrying about their image.

Two Illusive Man quotes that make me think twice about Cerberus...
"Salvation comes with a cost. Judge us not by our methods, but what we seek to accomplish."
"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."
Two reasons I think they handle themselves in their 'cerberus' fashion.