142 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

I know this isn't a new theory as it has been discussed quite a bit as part of other threads, but it won't hurt to make a thread on it. This isn't on the boy scene per se; just this particular theory.

The question is whether the kid from the intro is in fact real, or is a product of Shepard's own imagination (perhaps as a sign of warning of what's to come... or worse.) I honestly never thought this idea would make much sense, until I considered a few (and rather obvious) facts from the beta:

• The boy is seen all by himself at the very beginning (when he's playing with the toy ship).
• Besides Shepard, no one ever notices him in the vents. Not even Anderson seemed to take note of him.
• At the end, nobody helps him onto the shuttle. It was as though no one was aware of his presence at all.

Given the above, which, in your opinion, would be the more possible scenario? That the boy is real or that he isn't? In my opinion, it is the latter. Do I believe that that is the case? Not necessarily. It's just more likely than I had originally presumed.

Discuss. I'm suddenly getting a Dead Space 2 vibe here. 

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 12 novembre 2011 - 06:12 .

[Arkitekt]

Hmm. When I read the title I thought "ridiculous", but I see you got that covered.

Thing is, you have no evidence of this. No hint at all, just a wild guess.

Could be a worse guess, though. I'm inclined to not believing it.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Arkitekt wrote...

Hmm. When I read the title I thought "ridiculous", but I see you got that covered.

Thing is, you have no evidence of this. No hint at all, just a wild guess.

Could be a worse guess, though. I'm inclined to not believing it.

Of course it isn't an evidence. A wild guess sounds about right. It's an interesting thought if you connect the dots here and there nonetheless.

[didymos1120]

I'm not entirely on board with this idea, but one thing that gave me pause is right after the Reapers hit and nail the defense committee: while Shep is laying there dazed, there's this creepy whispering that sounds like speech but can't be understood, and that's exactly how early indoctrination is described by those who experience it.

[NYG1991]

I got the feeling shep was just seeing things also. The thing that sealed it for me was him makin it to the shuttle alone & unarmed and nobody even acknowledge him as he struggles to climb in

[JRCHOharry]

I think he is real
"The boy is seen all by himself at the very beginning (when he's playing with the toy ship)." - That doesn't really mean much, lots of kids play by themselves.

"Besides Shepard, no one ever notices him in the vents. Not even Anderson seemed to take note of him." - I don't think Anderson was in the same room when Shepard and the boy were talking, I thought he went on without Shepard before coming back through to check up on him.

"At the end, nobody helps him onto the shuttle. It was as though no one was aware of his presence at all." - All the soldiers were too busy fighting off husks to help anyone on. There was one soldier who signaled the pilot to leave just after the boy got on the shuttle, so he must have noticed all the civilians were on board.

It'd be cool if he was just Shepard's imagination. You're seeing dead people Shepard? Kasumi: 'CreEEEEeepy'

[Saberchic]

I think the boy is real.

1. He could be by himself at the headquarters because his parent had to bring him along for some reason, so the little boy plays by himself until his parent finishes doing what they are doing.

2. The boy could have disappeared by the time Anderson came to check on Shepard.

3. It seemed to me that they waited until he was in the shuttle to shut the doors and then take off.

At least, that's my take on him. :-)

[onelifecrisis]

Real.

[Fredvdp]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

[*]At the end, nobody helps him onto the shuttle. It was as though no one was aware of his presence at all.

They wait for him to board the shuttle before they close the door.

[GMagnum]

i tink he started poppin pills n den he started seeing things tbh

[Jessihatt]

I think he's real, but I do think Shepard may be indoctrinated.
Shepard seems in control of him/herself and indoctrination is supposed to compel you to do things without knowing why.
I don't know whether it would make you see things that weren't there but it's an interesting theory.
Still, I truly believe the boy is real - if I'm wrong, I look forward to learning what other things Shep thought were real which were in fact fantasy!

[NYG1991]

It took a few seconds for him to climb up. If they were in a hurry to leave one of the soldiers could have picked him up quicker.

Good point about how they signal for takeoff after he boards though.

[robarcool]

It will be a good twist if the boy is in Shepard's imagination. It may not necessarily mean indoctrination, but it may be sign of all the events taking a toll on Shepard's mind, depicting him falling apart.

[Arkitekt]

Yeah, a neat idea nonetheless. The eerie pat would be, obviously, when Shepard was calming himself down in the citadel later on, and then he sees the same boy, with a scared / wtf / curious / etc. look on his face.

[didymos1120]

Fredvdp wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

At the end, nobody helps him onto the shuttle. It was as though no one was aware of his presence at all.

They wait for him to board the shuttle before they close the door.

Watch it again, and pay close attention to the number of people on board in any given shot. You'll realize more people got on in those last few seconds when the camera wasn't on the shuttle.

[mybudgee]

The only problem is ME3 would be more than a bit clunky and hard to play if Shep were constantly on the verge of indoctrination. Hours and hours of the digital world/omni-tool corruption sequence from overlord...no. I think not.

[didymos1120]

CommanderJessica wrote...

I don't know whether it would make you see things that weren't there but it's an interesting theory.

It can. From the derelict mission:

That thing that just... gray thing! It disappeared when I looked straight at it. Came out of the damn wall! Where we took off that panel.

Also mentioned in the indoctrination Codex entry:

As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences.

However, this seems to argue against such fully-realized and detailed hallucinations.

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 novembre 2011 - 06:50 .

[darkchaosbunny]

Well the playing alone can symbolize Shepard desire to be care free and happy in such unsure times given his loss of freedom and the burden of the truth.

The vents can be Shepard telling himself that he can't trust or help himself. "You can't help me." That seems like the doubt and crisis he is facing.

And it all comes full circle as the little boy reaches the shuttles that is at least a mile away on his own merits against all odds only to die. This is like Mass Effect 2 when he destroys the relay to buy earth time only to find out he failed and the reapers are what will be the end of everything.

He might be an allegory of Shepard's subconscious feelings manifesting as he is breaking down. Or Bioware wanted emotional and they want you to see a kid happy at play to die only 20 minutes later so you can return to earth like a big god---n hero and avenge the kid

Modifié par darkchaosbunny, 12 novembre 2011 - 07:15 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

robarcool wrote...

It will be a good twist if the boy is in Shepard's imagination. It may not necessarily mean indoctrination, but it may be sign of all the events taking a toll on Shepard's mind, depicting him falling apart.

That is actually what I think is going on. Isaac in Dead Space 2 was experience a similar dilemma throughout the whole game, and I thought it added greatly to the overall experience.

Oh, and as Didy said, indoctrination CAN cause visions and ghostly presences. I hope it isn't indoctrination, however. But I admit it would make sense.

EDIT: Dark Chaos, very good points! I especially like the one on Arrival.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 12 novembre 2011 - 07:19 .

[didymos1120]

darkchaosbunny wrote...

He might be an allegory of Shepard's subconscious feelings manifesting as he is breaking down.

Well, the kid being an allegory doesn't preclude him being a hallucination, nor does it preclude him being real. 

[onelifecrisis]

Good grief! It's a boy. The reapers kill him. You cry. What's the big mystery?

[didymos1120]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Oh, and as Didy said, indoctrination CAN cause visions and ghostly presences. 

Yeah, but the implication from the Codex and the derelict is that these hallucinations are rather vague and amorphous, so the kid-as-hallucination idea doesn't work with the "It's because Shep is indoctrinated" explanation.