33 réponses à ce sujet

[Uccio]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

How is it a failure exactly? Who is dictating that it's a failure? "Failure" again is one area of opinion. If the game did not meet your expectations, then yes, you could say that it failed you in that regard (meeting your expectations). Sales figures, review scores, etc - those do not make a game a failure. I would figure that a game fails when it does not meet its objective - to engage the player, tell the story, and create something fun/exciting/dramatic. I think there are plenty of people who would consider this game far from being a failure.

As far as I have been reading these discussion threads here and elsewhere the major feeling has been that the game was a failure on many levels.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...


Isn't it weird when you just know something is going to be a failure, even before it happens? And you turn out to be right?

Sigh. Some game critic said early this year that DA 2 would fail if rushed. Go figure, it was rushed, very very rushed. And failed.

The Warden seems to be cursed, to be unhappy for as long as they live, and that sucks.

I was wondering about that too. I wish my warden could live happily with Morrigan. But I get my wish after Witch Hunt. And now their story belong to me because their story is over for BioWare. Only I can write my own warden's legend. A legend of my Warden and Morrigan. An untold legend that is carefully sculpted with DAO's toolset.

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
 
On the upside, Hawke's fate is a crapload more optimistic and hopeful, which makes me look forward to this character's future a LOT more than the Warden's. There was still a lot of darkness and depressing things in Hawke's story - but Hawke actually overcomes all of those things and manages to actually make a difference, which is what I want in a protagonist.

Let see.. He failed to protect Carver from the Ogre. He failed to protect his sister from the templar. He failed to protect his mother. He failed to protect the people of Kirkwall from the Qunari. He failed to work things out for both Meredith and Orsino. He failed to send Feynriel to Mage Tower for proper mage education. He failed to save the Viscount's son. He failed to save the Magistrate's son. He failed to stop Isabela from stealing the artifact that cost many Kirkwall people's lifes. He failed in almost everything except being an errant boy who can't tone his voice properly unless he is one of the 3 preset character and he actually "overcome all those things and manage to actually make a difference" by slaughtering every mad templars and mages before he is "gone" forever. You called that an accomplishment? 

TheButterflyEffect wrote...


On the other hand, like I've said, the flow of the game and story just didn't feel right, and the way they've tried to mesh it in with everything already established in DAO seems awkward.

It's a story being told by a reluctant person who has no motive nor reason to relate it with the first DA. Who knows how much this "reluctant" influence "the truth" of the whole story. He could be lying all the time. Heck, they don't even have Hawke's picture in the black book where every other companions's image were accurately shown. This show how unpopular or "too exaggerated" that no one can remember Hawke's face despite the fact the event only took place few years ago. But who care anyway. A myst is a myst. No one have to believe anything. 

TheButterflyEffect wrote...



Plus, we still have no toolset for it like BioWare said we would, and you can tell just by playing through this game that it was very rushed. They couldn't even include female Qunari, and on top of that, they entirely cut out female dwarves. Overall, it was quite disappointing... I think what we all wanted was a direct and epic sequel to Origins... this just didn't seem well planned, at all.

There is no more toolset. I don't believe EA is interested with player mods. Their record with the Sims series prove it. I expect they want to sell DLC but then again those DLCs are too few and far in between to keep people interested. No matter what, they don't have the workforce of thousand or perhaps millions Modders all over the world to help them enrich the content of their own game. But Money speak for everything. Therefore, they won't be bothered by it. If the game dies, simply make a new IP. 

TheButterflyEffect wrote...





I don't know what to think of the DA series anymore. I think the sloppy way they pushed together DA2 has really sent the series downhill. If there's another DA game, I think I might play it, but honestly, I don't feel optimistic about it. I don't want the next DA game to usher in ANOTHER player character and a whole new jumble of even more unresolved plots. I hope the next DA game will be clever and thought out, to pull together everything that was set up in the first two games, resolve all of those plots, and give us a good, final, and worthwhile ending.

Can only hope... a little.

Just think of a new BioWare, like Knowless said.
Your hope is not going to change EA mindset to capture 80 millions COD crowds or the lowest common denomintors who like a complex Role-playing-games go down to casual 5 miniutes Pac Man games. Welcome to gaming industry. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 14 novembre 2011 - 10:58 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Ukki wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

How is it a failure exactly? Who is dictating that it's a failure? "Failure" again is one area of opinion. If the game did not meet your expectations, then yes, you could say that it failed you in that regard (meeting your expectations). Sales figures, review scores, etc - those do not make a game a failure. I would figure that a game fails when it does not meet its objective - to engage the player, tell the story, and create something fun/exciting/dramatic. I think there are plenty of people who would consider this game far from being a failure.

As far as I have been reading these discussion threads here and elsewhere the major feeling has been that the game was a failure on many levels.

I've seen a lot of discontent, sure. But I've also seen a lot of giddiness, a lot of appreciation, etc. Lots of folks like the game, even love it - many of those will say that yeah, it wasn't perfect, but that they still enjoyed it and have played it multiple times. Recognizing that a game may not have been perfect, or had some things that someone personally did not care for, or still had room for improvement does not mean that the game was a failure.

And really, how are we defining "failure" here? As I stated to the OP, if the game did not meet his/her expectations, then yes, I suppose he/she could say that it was a failure in that singular and personal regard.

[LordPaul256]

Filament wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Isn't it weird when you just know something is going to be a failure, even before it happens? And you turn out to be right?

It's not weird at all.

*sigh*  As someone who actually spent years studying psychology, I wish people would stop repeating the terms they heard being thrown around to suit their own fashion.

If I know a friend is going to fail a job interview, and they do, that's not confirmation bias.  That's prescience.

But maybe you want to claim ad hominem here?  Or maybe Godwin's Law?

[jamesp81]

All possible endings for the protagonist are very bittersweet at best.
I really hate that - to me, when I play a low fantasy game, my goal is
to truly make this scummy world a better place and try to overcome the
bad things, finding good things and happiness for myself and creating a
better life for everyone, to the best of my ability. The bleakness of
the ending, in addition to the number of unresolved plots, basically
makes me feel like everything I just did was for absolutely nothing -
all an utter waste of time. The Warden seems to be cursed, to be unhappy
for as long as they live, and that sucks.

This x1000 times.

Although the Warden Queen / Alistair King ending is kind of up in the air at the moment.

[jamesp81]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...
How is it a failure exactly? Who is dictating that it's a failure? "Failure" again is one area of opinion. If the game did not meet your expectations, then yes, you could say that it failed you in that regard (meeting your expectations). Sales figures, review scores, etc - those do not make a game a failure. I would figure that a game fails when it does not meet its objective - to engage the player, tell the story, and create something fun/exciting/dramatic. I think there are plenty of people who would consider this game far from being a failure.

Names.

You want me to list the names of forumites who have already posted their positive feelings about the game? I suppose I could, or you could just check other threads.

And the game failed everywhere: reception, sales, content, writing.

Opinion.

Well, yes.  Sort of.  One has to define success before he can declare the game a failure.  From a pure economic standpoint, success would be defined as the game generating the amount of profit the company was aiming for.  I don't have sales figures, obviously, but I imagine that the game did turn a profit for BW.

However, the people working at BW are artists, and artists often measure success by more metrics than just 'profit made'.

[jamesp81]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

I liked this game at first. But then i found out about the personality system and i loved it. Finished it 11 times after that The way i could explicitly design a character is amazing. Make them an andastrian or a mage who just wants money(nice with a sarcastic touch to it)....it's awesome

Best feature of the game, IMO.  Sarcastic / Trollface Hawke is awesome, closely followed by aggressive Hawke.

[jamesp81]

Nightwriter wrote...

Don't really understand your beef with the supposed bleakness of DA:O, OP. Some of the endings could certainly be tragic, but I thought DA:O gave me the opportunity to have a relatively happy ending, if I so chose. The bleakest thing about it might be that my Warden is going to die around fifty. I can't bring myself to be too torn up about this. It's not like I'm going to be playing the Warden until he or she is fifty. It's enough that I saved the world, lived to tell about it, and rode off into the sunset with my LI.

DA2 is easily more tragedy-ridden. And I don't really understand how you can say Hawke overcomes all the hurdles and actually "makes a difference." Hawke's "make a different" quotient is significantly lower than the Warden's. In DA:O, the Warden affects history. In DA2, history affects Hawke.

Honestly, given life expectancies in a medieval setting, living only to 50 is kind of normal even without a terminal condition.  From the lore we know that Wynne is most likely somewhere between 50 and 60 and she's considered to be old.  The fact that she's in as good a condition as she is is likely to due to being a healer herself and the somewhat easier life offered by living in the circle tower.

Frankly, the only warden recruits that really lose much life span are the ones that take the joining in their mid to late teens.  If a recruit joins in his mid 20s or later, his normal life expectancy is probably shorter than any imposed limit by the taint.