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[heiveldboy]

Ugh, I've just played DA2 again and I really have to say... I want to kill her.
During the whole game she goes on and on about the maker shouldn't do this and do that and blahblahblah and that she wants to remain 'neutral' while making excuses for anything the templars do... Hypocrite chantry/templar cleric...

I can honestly say that I understand why Anders killed her...

Anyone else agree?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Did you also want to blow up the Viscount's Keep and everyone in it because they didn't curb Meredith or remove the corruption in the city guard?

[heiveldboy]

Rojahar wrote...

Anyone who doesn't aid me in my extremist crusade and obsess about the same issues as me is useless and deserves to die!

pretty much
But in all seriousness, I just hate the fact that she is a hypocrite and defends the templars and excuses their actions when they should be punished... sigh...
love how Bioware is capable of creating such emotions... nice job

[heiveldboy]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Did you also want to blow up the Viscount's Keep and everyone in it because they didn't curb Meredith or remove the corruption in the city guard?

I thought you removed all the corruption in the city guard when you dealt with Jeven when he tried to rally the people in Darktown?
Besides I wouldn't blow up the Viscount's Keep, nor the chantry... But I do understand why Anders would do that:
1) she doesn't really do anything to help the mages or ,as Anders views it, make their life in the gallows sufferable and gives excuses for the actions of the templars when they should be punished or at least disciplined
2) Meredith is paranoid because of a certain sword and wants to kill every mage because they might be blood mages
3) There is a certain spirit/demon in his head that makes him crazy

Mix those things and you get a fool blowing up a chantry and igniting a war... Still I understand why...
Don't know if you noticed but I was kinda frustrated when I wrote it

[heiveldboy]

Rojahar wrote...

heiveldboy wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

Anyone who doesn't aid me in my extremist crusade and obsess about the same issues as me is useless and deserves to die!

pretty much
But in all seriousness, I just hate the fact that she is a hypocrite and defends the templars and excuses their actions when they should be punished... sigh...
love how Bioware is capable of creating such emotions... nice job

It's not much different from how people on this forum (or people in-game) make excuses for the rampant use of blood magic and corrupt in Kirkwall's Circle, or how some people in the real world think it's OK to kill civilians from a country with a government that's wronged some people. I'm sure you spared Anders though, hypocritically.

true, very true... I forgot that the corruption comes from both sides...
Yeah that's the lovely truth about our world these days... people will never stop killing others who wronged or who'se officials or leader have wronged others... It's never ok to kill people... never... thanks for bringing this to my attention
Well in one playthrough I spared him, in the other I killed him
But I prefer to let him live and experience the consequences of his actions... All mages have to suffer and he gets the mercy of a clean, quick death? no way

[Sabariel]

No, I've never wanted to kill Elthina. I did want to sternly shake my finger at her once in awhile though...

[primero holodon]

I can't say I approved of her, but I don't think outright killing her was the best course of action, and rather shortsighted on Anders part seeing as how that'll pretty much stop anyone but the mages from joining the mages side.

[Nightwriter]

I can see how someone would be irritated with her. The city is being confronted with a serious issue that demands a swift response. Mages are being abused and put through illegal Rites of Tranquility, abuse of power is rife, and the pressure is causing more mages to turn to blood magic and demons. People are dying. The situation is escalating. Yet all Elthina offers is noninterventionist platitudes.

Still, I cannot bring myself to be too enraged at her. She was a moderate on the issue, and so am I. She saw fault on both sides, and so did I. She wanted peace, and so did I. I suppose the difference is that I was still willing to act on it, and she was not, even though it is her responsibility to reign Meredith in.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

The way I look at it, she was trying not to have to decide, because she trusted in the Maker. Which, to me I think is good like it is in real life, but there comes a point where I think the Maker would slap her up side the head because she's using her faith as an excuse not to take sides on an issue that she NEEDS to take sides.

Kinda like the joke of the girl praying to God to let her win the lottery and thinks God has forsaken her wishes, until He says "Throw me a bone girl, buy a lottery ticket!!!!" If you trust in a deity so much that you take NO action of your own, then there may not be anything the deity can do to help you until you take some initiative of your own.

[Gabey5]

i was apathetic and surprised when he did it, not angered

[Heimdall]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

The way I look at it, she was trying not to have to decide, because she trusted in the Maker. Which, to me I think is good like it is in real life, but there comes a point where I think the Maker would slap her up side the head because she's using her faith as an excuse not to take sides on an issue that she NEEDS to take sides.

Kinda like the joke of the girl praying to God to let her win the lottery and thinks God has forsaken her wishes, until He says "Throw me a bone girl, buy a lottery ticket!!!!" If you trust in a deity so much that you take NO action of your own, then there may not be anything the deity can do to help you until you take some initiative of your own.

If Elthina took sides, the entire situation would have exploded without Ander's needing to lift a finger.  If she sided with Mages, Meredith would have disregarded her.  Elthina does after all only hold nominal power while Meredith controls far and away the largest army in the city.  She only has power as long as Meredith agrees to do what she says.  She would have ceased doing so if Elthina outright sided with mages and tried to have her step down.  If she had sided with the Templars, more and more mages would have been pushed to fight back and join groups like the Resolutionists.  There's a reason the gang infesting High Town in Act 3 is composed of Blood Mages and a small army of thralls.  Elthina wanted to compromise because she knew that either result would kill many and possibly even destroy the city, annihilating her flock.  That's why Anders killed her, he wanted things to explode.

That's how I see it anyway.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 14 novembre 2011 - 08:49 .

[Knight of Dane]

Lord Aesir wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

The way I look at it, she was trying not to have to decide, because she trusted in the Maker. Which, to me I think is good like it is in real life, but there comes a point where I think the Maker would slap her up side the head because she's using her faith as an excuse not to take sides on an issue that she NEEDS to take sides.

Kinda like the joke of the girl praying to God to let her win the lottery and thinks God has forsaken her wishes, until He says "Throw me a bone girl, buy a lottery ticket!!!!" If you trust in a deity so much that you take NO action of your own, then there may not be anything the deity can do to help you until you take some initiative of your own.

If Elthina took sides, the entire situation would have exploded without Ander's needing to lift a finger.  If she sided with Mages, Meredith would have disregarded her.  Elthina does after all only hold nominal power while Meredith controls far and away the largest army in the city.  She only has power as long as Meredith agrees to do what she says.  She would have ceased doing so if Elthina outright sided with mages.  If she had sided with the Templars, more and more mages would have been pushed to fight back and join groups like the Resolutionists.  There's a reason the gang infesting High Town in Act 3 is composed of Blood Mages and a small army of thralls.  Elthina wanted to compromise because she knew that either result would kill many and possibly even destroy the city, annihilating her flock.  That's why Anders killed her, he wanted things to explode.

That's how I see it anyway.

No, not just you. That is how it is.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 14 novembre 2011 - 08:48 .

[AlexXIV]

Lord Aesir wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

The way I look at it, she was trying not to have to decide, because she trusted in the Maker. Which, to me I think is good like it is in real life, but there comes a point where I think the Maker would slap her up side the head because she's using her faith as an excuse not to take sides on an issue that she NEEDS to take sides.

Kinda like the joke of the girl praying to God to let her win the lottery and thinks God has forsaken her wishes, until He says "Throw me a bone girl, buy a lottery ticket!!!!" If you trust in a deity so much that you take NO action of your own, then there may not be anything the deity can do to help you until you take some initiative of your own.

If Elthina took sides, the entire situation would have exploded without Ander's needing to lift a finger.  If she sided with Mages, Meredith would have disregarded her.  Elthina does after all only hold nominal power while Meredith controls far and away the largest army in the city.  She only has power as long as Meredith agrees to do what she says.  She would have ceased doing so if Elthina outright sided with mages.  If she had sided with the Templars, more and more mages would have been pushed to fight back and join groups like the Resolutionists.  There's a reason the gang infesting High Town in Act 3 is composed of Blood Mages and a small army of thralls.  Elthina wanted to compromise because she knew that either result would kill many and possibly even destroy the city, annihilating her flock.  That's why Anders killed her, he wanted things to explode.

That's how I see it anyway.

My Hawke tried to get her to help. Together with Hawke, Elthina would be the most powerful. Do you really think the templars will stand with Meredith against the Chantry, Hawke AND the city guard? Highly unlikely, but even if she was mad enough it would have meant that the templars get kicked out.

The problem is not that things would have went out of hand if she had taken active role. The problem is that things went out of hand because she didn't. I wouldn't have blown her or the Chantry up, but I can savely say of all people who died in DA2 I mourned her least. I am more sorry for the death of some random npcs who jump you in kirkwall night mode than for this useless person blocking an important position with her old ass while someone smarter or braver could have done alot more.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Elthina did try to moderate the situation. Meredith refused to listen to her. Elthina tells you she is attending to the gallows after she diffuses the confrontation in the Hightown square.

[Heimdall]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

The way I look at it, she was trying not to have to decide, because she trusted in the Maker. Which, to me I think is good like it is in real life, but there comes a point where I think the Maker would slap her up side the head because she's using her faith as an excuse not to take sides on an issue that she NEEDS to take sides.

Kinda like the joke of the girl praying to God to let her win the lottery and thinks God has forsaken her wishes, until He says "Throw me a bone girl, buy a lottery ticket!!!!" If you trust in a deity so much that you take NO action of your own, then there may not be anything the deity can do to help you until you take some initiative of your own.

If Elthina took sides, the entire situation would have exploded without Ander's needing to lift a finger.  If she sided with Mages, Meredith would have disregarded her.  Elthina does after all only hold nominal power while Meredith controls far and away the largest army in the city.  She only has power as long as Meredith agrees to do what she says.  She would have ceased doing so if Elthina outright sided with mages.  If she had sided with the Templars, more and more mages would have been pushed to fight back and join groups like the Resolutionists.  There's a reason the gang infesting High Town in Act 3 is composed of Blood Mages and a small army of thralls.  Elthina wanted to compromise because she knew that either result would kill many and possibly even destroy the city, annihilating her flock.  That's why Anders killed her, he wanted things to explode.

That's how I see it anyway.

My Hawke tried to get her to help. Together with Hawke, Elthina would be the most powerful. Do you really think the templars will stand with Meredith against the Chantry, Hawke AND the city guard? Highly unlikely, but even if she was mad enough it would have meant that the templars get kicked out.

The problem is not that things would have went out of hand if she had taken active role. The problem is that things went out of hand because she didn't. I wouldn't have blown her or the Chantry up, but I can savely say of all people who died in DA2 I mourned her least. I am more sorry for the death of some random npcs who jump you in kirkwall night mode than for this useless person blocking an important position with her old ass while someone smarter or braver could have done alot more.

We already know the Templars are willing to split from the chantry to hunt the mages.  As for the city guard, they are just that, guards.  They aren't an army and are far numerically inferior to the Templars.  Not to mention Aveline didn't seem to trust the guards not to help the Templars.  That's part of the reason she had them protecting civilians if Hawke sided with the mages and not fighting the Templars.  As for Hawke, even fighting the entire Templar order in Kirkwall at once is a tall order, I don't care what kind of one man/woman army Hawke is.  If they had the mage's help, then it becomes much more plausible.  Like I said though, the end result is still bringing about widespread destruction and death to the populance.  Elthina will not allow that.

She saved lives by seeking compromise instead of endangering her flock.  There are far more people in Kirkwall than just mages and Templars.  Her responsibility is to them, the Kirkwallers, not to put their city and all their lives at risk.  If she hadn't died, things may never have even escalated as far as they did, or maybe the explosion Anders sought was inevitable.  Either way, she saved more people by trying to find compromise.

[AlexXIV]

What kind of compromise are you talking about? She watched the templars go more aggressive and more mages turning to bloodmages without doing anything. Hawke was looking for compromise, maybe Orsino even. But neither Meredith nor Elthina did anything to let this end peacefully. She was talking to both, Meredith and Orsino like they were little children, and as if she was their grandma. Well that was as bad as judgement could go. They were both old enough and powerful enough to be taken seriously. Which she didn't. Not sure if she was drugged or just senile, but appearances like at the Gallows when Meredith and Orsino were about to start fighting just lets me think that she didn't notice anything anymore.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 novembre 2011 - 09:16 .

[Heimdall]

AlexXIV wrote...

What kind of compromise are you talking about? She watched the templars go more aggressive and more mages turning to bloodmages without doing anything. Hawke was looking for compromise, maybe Orsino even. But neither Meredith nor Elthina did anything to let this end peacefully. She was talking to both, Meredith and Orsino like they were little children, and as if she was their grandma. Well that was as bad as judgement could go. They were both old enough and powerful enough to be taken seriously. Which she didn't. Not sure if she was drugged or just senile, but appearances like at the Gallows when Meredith and Orsino were about to start fighting just lets me think that she didn't notice anything anymore.

She kept Meredith from having Orsino hauled off for one.  She denied Meredith the rite of annulment and would have stopped the search of the mage quarters or at least limitted it if Anders had not interfered.  She was doing more than Hawke to contain the situation.  I'm not sure what Hawke you're talking about, but just about all of Hawke's dialogue options with Elthina tell her to pick a side, not seek compromise.  That being said, as a member of the Chantry and a sane being, she must have been hesitant to fully curtail the Templar's activities given that foreign revolutionary blood mages like the resolutionists, mage led slavers from Tervinter (Act 3 Docks gang), a demon cult (Act 3 Lowtown gang), and more militarized blood mages (Act 3 High Town gang) are all running amok.  Not all blood magic use is reactionary, some came to Kirkwall actively seeking to cause a situation like this, the resolutionists are particularly noted.  Meredith was a huge problem, so I'm not sure while you're lumping her in with Elthina.  If Elthina hadn't been able to moderate at least some of Meredith's extreme actions the situation would have erupted already.  It's because both Orsino and Meredith were stil willing to listen to Elthina for the time being that Ander's acted.  I case you didn't notice, both trudged off from that meeting as if they were children having been scolded.  I was fist pumping for Elthina when she treated Meredith like a little girl throwing a tantrum personally.

Elthina wanted to find a peaceful solution.  Whether there was one to be found is up in the air, but that was the compromise she sought.  What people on these boards seem to want her to do is cause a war.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 14 novembre 2011 - 09:35 .

[Realmzmaster]

Elthina was trying to be a voice of reason. At the moment she had some control over Meredith. Meredith was already paranoid. The idol just exploited that paranoia and raised it a few more degrees. Elthina had influence with Orsino. Both would listen to her if she remained neutral. If she had taken sides then she would be seen as the enemy by the other side. Thereby losing any effectiveness to influence that side.

Orsino would already see her as being on the templars side because the Chantry controls the templars. By remaining neutral and trying to hear and reason with both sides she can allay that fear partially. She knows she is sitting on a powder keg with both sides trying to light it.
What none of them know is that a third party is actively attempting to light the powder keg and will be much more successful. Anders removes the moderate voice (and possible compromise) leaving only the extreme opposing views. He gives Meredith and the templars all the ammo necessary to seek annulment.

Meredith had lost face by failing to protect the Grand Cleric. A mage had killed her. It did not matter that it was not a Circle mage especially in Meredith paranoid eyes..

[AlexXIV]

Lord Aesir wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

What kind of compromise are you talking about? She watched the templars go more aggressive and more mages turning to bloodmages without doing anything. Hawke was looking for compromise, maybe Orsino even. But neither Meredith nor Elthina did anything to let this end peacefully. She was talking to both, Meredith and Orsino like they were little children, and as if she was their grandma. Well that was as bad as judgement could go. They were both old enough and powerful enough to be taken seriously. Which she didn't. Not sure if she was drugged or just senile, but appearances like at the Gallows when Meredith and Orsino were about to start fighting just lets me think that she didn't notice anything anymore.

She kept Meredith from having Orsino hauled off for one.  She denied Meredith the rite of annulment and would have stopped the search of the mage quarters or at least limitted it if Anders had not interfered.  She was doing more than Hawke to contain the situation.  I'm not sure what Hawke you're talking about, but just about all of Hawke's dialogue options with Elthina tell her to pick a side, not seek compromise.  That being said, as a member of the Chantry and a sane being, she must have been hesitant to fully curtail the Templar's activities given that foreign revolutionary blood mages like the resolutionists, mage led slavers from Tervinter (Act 3 Docks gang), a demon cult (Act 3 Lowtown gang), and more militarized blood mages (Act 3 High Town gang) are all running amok.  Not all blood magic use is reactionary, some came to Kirkwall actively seeking to cause a situation like this, the resolutionists are particularly noted.  Meredith was a huge problem, so I'm not sure while you're lumping her in with Elthina.  If Elthina hadn't been able to moderate at least some of Meredith's extreme actions the situation would have erupted already.  It's because both Orsino and Meredith were stil willing to listen to Elthina for the time being that Ander's acted.  I case you didn't notice, both trudged off from that meeting as if they were children having been scolded.  I was fist pumping for Elthina when she treated Meredith like a little girl throwing a tantrum personally.

Elthina wanted to find a peaceful solution.  Whether there was one to be found is up in the air, but that was the compromise she sought.  What people on these boards seem to want her to do is cause a war.

And she probably wanted to find it praying in the Chantry while mages and templars kill each other. Or what was she doing in the Chantry anyway when the situation culminated in the Gallows? Had she been there with Hawke, Orsino and Meredith, she wouldn't have died. She is not just some priest, she is the highest authority in Kirkwall. And as such being unable to stop this from happening is not really putting her in a good light. I can imagine she could have done alot more than just talk.

A good one was also how Sister Petrice died. Killed by a Qunari and the Grand Cleric just walked away as if nothing had happened. That's like her. I mean I would have loved to kill her myself, but the Grand Cleric letting the Quanri do the dirty work is just another example of this 'lady's' character. Sorry but she just never wanted to have anything to do with anyone. Obviously in DA the people with actions make the calls, not those with just words. And Elthina only had words. And nobody listened. And why would they from a woman who talks as if she doesn't realize what is going on around her. I honestly doubt that if Andrastae had been anything like Elthina that they could have 'talked' the Tevinter Empire into submission.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 novembre 2011 - 09:44 .

[Gervaise]

Whoever controls the army is the one who calls the shots. The largest army in Kirkwall is by far the Templars and Elthina no longer controls it (if she ever really did).

Sebastian tells Averline that Elthina is worried that Meredith is no longer taking her advice. It would appear to be his way of sounding out Averline and she responds by saying that they should continue to back Meredith. So Elthina would not have the assistance of the Guard if she tried to oust Meredith.

If Hawke asks Cullen whose side he thinks Elthina will take, he replies that she is obliged to back the Templars because of their "divine right" over mages. He also says that he thinks she is wrong for giving the mages hope of a change in the situation. He also tells Meredith at the end that he backed her even when others were calling her mad. So it is clear that Elthina would have no hope of ousting Meredith through the assistance of the Templars, nor would they obey if she made major concessions to the mages. The best she can hope for is to stop matters getting any worse.

Orsino clearly still thinks his best hope is appealing to Elthina - had she lived it is entirely possible she would have opposed any attempt to enact a Rite of Annulment, even if Meredith's search had turned up evidence of blood mages in the Circle.

Elthina represented the moderate, middle ground viewpoint, which is why Anders says he killed her. He knew this would push Meredith over the edge and he knew this would not just affect Kirkwall but the wide world, because Sister Nightingale had told Hawke this. He blew up the Chantry rather than simply assassinate Elthina because that would also be a very big symbolic gesture. Essentially he doesn't take the action because Elthina failed to improve the lot of the Circle Mages in Kirkwall because as far as he is concerned, anything less than total freedom is a cop out. He takes the action because he wants to start a war and he doesn't want any chance for a compromise to be worked out. So he blows up the Chantry, knowing that the way will now be free for Meredith to kill all the mages in Kirkwall regardless of their guilt or innocence and that in turn will outrage the Circles throughout Thedas into rising up against their own Templar masters.

When the Divine sent Sister Nightingale to warn Elthina to leave, it was because they recognised that the situation in Kirkwall was now beyond her ability to control and it was only a matter of time before she was killed. She chose to stay because she felt she had a duty to the wider populace of the city and if she left, that would leave the way open for the Divine order an Exalted March and Meredith to call a Rite of Anulment. In this at least she showed courage and devotion to her flock. One of my Hawkes tried a last ditch attempt to talk to her before leaving for the Gallows. He last words were "I will not leave my people to bear the burden of war between the Templars and the malifacarum". She paid for this loyalty to her people with her life.

[AlexXIV]

And what are the templars going to do against Elthina? Arrest her? All she needed was some civil courage which she didn't have. I don't care for divine right either. It's just a comfortable excuse to make an easy decision. Did the Maker tell her? Did he talk to her? I doubt it. There is nothing divine about divine rights, only people with power taking it as excuse for whatever they want to do.

She was actively preventing the situation from getting resolved. She was the one who acted as if everything was alright while it wasn't. She needed help but didn't admit it. What Anders did and why is one thing. But it doesn't sanctify what Elthina did or didn't do. Just because someone kills you to start war doesn't mean that you are a saint. In the eyes of some maybe, but people believe what they want to believe. I am sure if he thought that she is such a great person, then he would have had doubts about it. I don't think Anders opinion of the Grand Cleric was really high.

[Heimdall]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

What kind of compromise are you talking about? She watched the templars go more aggressive and more mages turning to bloodmages without doing anything. Hawke was looking for compromise, maybe Orsino even. But neither Meredith nor Elthina did anything to let this end peacefully. She was talking to both, Meredith and Orsino like they were little children, and as if she was their grandma. Well that was as bad as judgement could go. They were both old enough and powerful enough to be taken seriously. Which she didn't. Not sure if she was drugged or just senile, but appearances like at the Gallows when Meredith and Orsino were about to start fighting just lets me think that she didn't notice anything anymore.

She kept Meredith from having Orsino hauled off for one.  She denied Meredith the rite of annulment and would have stopped the search of the mage quarters or at least limitted it if Anders had not interfered.  She was doing more than Hawke to contain the situation.  I'm not sure what Hawke you're talking about, but just about all of Hawke's dialogue options with Elthina tell her to pick a side, not seek compromise.  That being said, as a member of the Chantry and a sane being, she must have been hesitant to fully curtail the Templar's activities given that foreign revolutionary blood mages like the resolutionists, mage led slavers from Tervinter (Act 3 Docks gang), a demon cult (Act 3 Lowtown gang), and more militarized blood mages (Act 3 High Town gang) are all running amok.  Not all blood magic use is reactionary, some came to Kirkwall actively seeking to cause a situation like this, the resolutionists are particularly noted.  Meredith was a huge problem, so I'm not sure while you're lumping her in with Elthina.  If Elthina hadn't been able to moderate at least some of Meredith's extreme actions the situation would have erupted already.  It's because both Orsino and Meredith were stil willing to listen to Elthina for the time being that Ander's acted.  I case you didn't notice, both trudged off from that meeting as if they were children having been scolded.  I was fist pumping for Elthina when she treated Meredith like a little girl throwing a tantrum personally.

Elthina wanted to find a peaceful solution.  Whether there was one to be found is up in the air, but that was the compromise she sought.  What people on these boards seem to want her to do is cause a war.

And she probably wanted to find it praying in the Chantry while mages and templars kill each other. Or what was she doing in the Chantry anyway when the situation culminated in the Gallows? Had she been there with Hawke, Orsino and Meredith, she wouldn't have died. She is not just some priest, she is the highest authority in Kirkwall. And as such being unable to stop this from happening is not really putting her in a good light. I can imagine she could have done alot more than just talk.

A good one was also how Sister Petrice died. Killed by a Qunari and the Grand Cleric just walked away as if nothing had happened. That's like her. I mean I would have loved to kill her myself, but the Grand Cleric letting the Quanri do the dirty work is just another example of this 'lady's' character. Sorry but she just never wanted to have anything to do with anyone. Obviously in DA the people with actions make the calls, not those with just words. And Elthina only had words. And nobody listened. And why would they from a woman who talks as if she doesn't realize what is going on around her. I honestly doubt that if Andrastae had been anything like Elthina that they could have 'talked' the Tevinter Empire into submission.

I already told you how she saved lives.  I'm not sure how you expect her to save anyone by triggering a war.  As I said, her real power only amounts to how much she can get Meredith to listen to her.  Which, she admits, is becoming less and less effective.

I played through the game recently, she was going have Petrice put on trial as the law of ordered society dictated.  Then the Qunari came, and I can't blame her for being unsurprised.  She seemed upset by it.  You're perception of her character is a bit skewed if you were thinking that, I'm afraid.  Orsino and Meredith listened, haven't you been paying attention?  That's the only reason the situation hadn't already deteriorated completely.  She is no fool and realizes that one cannot disuade fanatics with words.  She says as much durin Act 2.  What you have to realize is that Andraste had an army.  The military arm of the Chantry is the Templars, which are headed by Meredith in Kirkwall and Meredith had grown beyond anyone's ability to control.  Elthina realized that what control she had would evaporate if she outright stood against the Templars.  She seems to have had a better grasp of her situation than you.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 14 novembre 2011 - 10:15 .