260 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

AlexXIV wrote...

Or ... Bioware customers are at least 70% racists who wouldn't buy one of their games just because it is asian themed. So, now I said it ...

I don't think that has much to do with the theme -- far more likely the reception was mediocre because it was an action-rpg, with combat system that was very easy to abuse to the point where the game would become trivial, and with lot of aspects considered (BioWare) rpg staples removed (inventory in general, party-based combat etc)  In other words, it wasn't really viewed as "one of BioWare games". At least that's the complaints i recall. Being only available for consoles for ~2 years didn't help that impression, either.

That said, personally i like it. But can easily see why many wouldn't, and it has nothing to do with being asian themed.

Modifié par tmp7704, 26 novembre 2011 - 05:04 .

[AlexXIV]

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Or ... Bioware customers are at least 70% racists who wouldn't buy one of their games just because it is asian themed. So, now I said it ...

I don't think that has much to do with the theme -- far more likely the reception was mediocre because it was an action-rpg, with combat system that was very easy to abuse to the point where the game would become trivial, and with lot of aspects considered (BioWare) rpg staples removed (inventory in general, party-based combat etc)  In other words, it wasn't really viewed as "one of BioWare games". At least that's the complaints i recall. Being only available for consoles for ~2 years didn't help that impression, either.

That said, personally i like it. But can easily see why many wouldn't, and it has nothing to do with being asian themed.

Maybe. I wasn't active on the forums ... or any forums ... back then and I wager alot of people were not. I really don't understand what is important about inventory though. And I liked the combat, better than other Bioware titles. I wonder how I missed that fact that it was console only for 2 years. I am an ardent PC gamer, not really playing any games on consoles, guess that's why. So let's say it was not because it was asian themed

So where is JE2 now Bioware?

[tmp7704]

AlexXIV wrote...

I really don't understand what is important about inventory though.

It's the extension of "i can't customize my character's (and/or companions) appearance/gear enough" issue, the same which causes so many DA2 threads.

And I liked the combat, better than other Bioware titles.

It is nice if you like the "press the button and something awesome happens" approach. But again DA2 shows it's not everyone's cup of tea, especially if people like BioWare games with their mechanics the way they usually are (and DA2 is considerably toned down in this regard, compared to JE)

Modifié par tmp7704, 26 novembre 2011 - 05:24 .

[Xewaka]

tmp7704 wrote...

And I liked the combat, better than other Bioware titles.

It is nice if you like the "press the button and something awesome happens" approach. But again DA2 shows it's not everyone's cup of tea, especially if people like BioWare games with their mechanics the way they usually are (and DA2 is considerably toned down in this regard, compared to JE)

Considering the relevant styles and genres of each game, I'd say that the "press button something awesome happens" approach fitted Jade Empire much better than DA2. Jade Empire is basically a Wuxia inspired videogame, so crazy lightning-fast movement and completely over the top combat fits with the overall theme. In DA 2, with a setting presented as low fantasy, that combat style is completely out of place.

[tmp7704]

Xewaka wrote...

Jade Empire is basically a Wuxia inspired videogame, so crazy lightning-fast movement and completely over the top combat fits with the overall theme.

That's true. Mind you though, i wasn't referring to the aesthetics but rather to the arcade approach to combat, i.e. having manual control of attacks, dodges and such. DA2 has that toned down just to the auto-attack (and even entirely optional in PC version) and still the reception was mixed, so it's small wonder the full arcade controls of JE could be even more controversial for some of the fans of "typical" BioWare games.

[Realmzmaster]

It has nothing to do with people being racist. KOTOR is a Star Wars game. Star Wars is popular. The name alone attracts gamers. If the game delivers on the promise that makes it even better. Jade Empire was a departure from other Bioware games just like the first one Shattered Steel. (Bioware did not hit their stride until Baldur's Gate.)
Jade Empire is a good game. It is simply more action oriented than most gamers who play cRPGs like BG 1 & 2 and Neverwinter Nights were looking for.

[Xewaka]

tmp7704 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Jade Empire is basically a Wuxia inspired videogame, so crazy lightning-fast movement and completely over the top combat fits with the overall theme.

That's true. Mind you though, i wasn't referring to the aesthetics but rather to the arcade approach to combat, i.e. having manual control of attacks, dodges and such. DA2 has that toned down just to the auto-attack (and even entirely optional in PC version) and still the reception was mixed, so it's small wonder the full arcade controls of JE could be even more controversial for some of the fans of "typical" BioWare games.

I was referring to the actual combat mechanics as well. Jade Empire's combat is appropriate for setting the game's tone. DA 2 wasn't. The more mechanical aspects of the game must also support the setting and world-building.

[Realmzmaster]

Xewaka wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Jade Empire is basically a Wuxia inspired videogame, so crazy lightning-fast movement and completely over the top combat fits with the overall theme.

That's true. Mind you though, i wasn't referring to the aesthetics but rather to the arcade approach to combat, i.e. having manual control of attacks, dodges and such. DA2 has that toned down just to the auto-attack (and even entirely optional in PC version) and still the reception was mixed, so it's small wonder the full arcade controls of JE could be even more controversial for some of the fans of "typical" BioWare games.

I was referring to the actual combat mechanics as well. Jade Empire's combat is appropriate for setting the game's tone. DA 2 wasn't. The more mechanical aspects of the game must also support the setting and world-building.

The actual combat calulations in DA2 are no different that the ones in DAO. Now if you are talking about the combat animations I could agree, but then DAO had finishing moves that really do not realistically happen. Jumping ten feet in the air to stab an ogre is there for eye candy. The ogre is already dead (combat calculation wise) before the animation. Or are you talking about the rogue suffle in DAO when you are trying to outflank the enemy before you land a blow.
In earlier cRPGs the enemy was killed and you move on. All the fancy animations and stuff in my opinion are unecessary eye candy. It has no real effect on the outcome.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The actual combat calulations in DA2 are no different that the ones in DAO.

I'm pretty sure DA2's calculations are simpler.  DAO, for example, gave a bonus to hit with a bow when you were firing from elevation.  DA2 does no such thing.

I got the DAO information from Georg Zoeller, and the DA2 information from Peter Thomas.  I haven't looked at the data myself.

Also, in DA2 it's impossible to miss.  That alone is a significant mechanical difference.

[Realmzmaster]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The actual combat calulations in DA2 are no different that the ones in DAO.

I'm pretty sure DA2's calculations are simpler.  DAO, for example, gave a bonus to hit with a bow when you were firing from elevation.  DA2 does no such thing.

I got the DAO information from Georg Zoeller, and the DA2 information from Peter Thomas.  I haven't looked at the data myself.

Also, in DA2 it's impossible to miss.  That alone is a significant mechanical difference.

You may have a point there. Do you have that information to share? I would like to take a look.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, I don't have actual data. This is just what I recall from conversations with the combat designers during development.