260 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

The point is does it make sense to put it in the game if it takes away resources that can be put to better use. It comes down to prioritizing what is important. There were a lot more items that should have been addressed with more resources in DA2 than bowstrings, and scabbards.

The little things make the game more immersive, but it does not matter if the immersion is already broken by a bigger more important flaw. Yes I could sit here and go Wow they but bowstrings on the bow, but I cannot bear to play an archer using those ugly bows

The technology to do so may be there, the question is it worth it and can you justify the expense.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Stanley Woo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am sorry, Mr Woo. That does not make sense at all in 2011. Maybe a decade ago that was rocket science, but in today's games stuffed with tech to make them more realistic missing bow strings just look silly.

Just because there are many more options available for developing games today, does not necessarily make any particular feature easier, more desirable, or appropriate to put into every game. Each game is a separate product with its own budgets, available zots, and code. it is not necessarily a simple matter of hitting a big red "add weapon animations to engine" button.

Game development is not magic. Actual work is involved at every stage in the process, and for every system and feature.

I am well aware of that. All things added to the game require effort. That doesn't mean it is not silly to ommit a bow string when modern games *are* trying to create a believable reality.

[thats1evildude]

You don't eat food or sleep or defecate in DA either.That is not part of a "believable reality," but those things are left out because requiring game characters to attend to the same every-day needs we have is difficult to implement and not very fun.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 14 novembre 2011 - 07:08 .

[hoorayforicecream]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am sorry, Mr Woo. That does not make sense at all in 2011. Maybe a decade ago that was rocket science, but in today's games stuffed with tech to make them more realistic missing bow strings just look silly.

Just because there are many more options available for developing games today, does not necessarily make any particular feature easier, more desirable, or appropriate to put into every game. Each game is a separate product with its own budgets, available zots, and code. it is not necessarily a simple matter of hitting a big red "add weapon animations to engine" button.

Game development is not magic. Actual work is involved at every stage in the process, and for every system and feature.

I am well aware of that. All things added to the game require effort. That doesn't mean it is not silly to ommit a bow string when modern games *are* trying to create a believable reality.

What would you like them to cut for animated weapons? 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Let's put it another way: Some things are secondary to the gameplay. However, a bow is the focus of archers. If you are playing an archer then you don't see the bow once or twice in the game. instead you'll see it *all* the time. Because of this focus you'll notice things like that. A little love for such a focused item seems appropriate. Especially when today's games add more reality. For an example, adding physics to a game like DA2 adds absolutely nothing in terms of gameplay. It's not a game based on physics. It's cool that it is there, because it adds to the immersion. So the game calculates the trajectory of the arrow. Very cool. In a game like ME ammo trajectory curve calculations were omitted because it is unlikely that a player wants to shoot a duck from a mile away with a sniper riffle. It's an instant hit and nobody can see it fly. Something to that effect was stated by Mr Holmes, and I believe he was right. But a bow string is noticeable when not visible. All the time.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 14 novembre 2011 - 07:42 .

[Realmzmaster]

The question becomes how much realism do you want in fantasy cRPG? Should we go back to food and water requirements? Breakable weapons and armor? Weight restrictions? Lack of sleep should affect performance? If the character has not sleep within 24 hours then the stats should be adversely affected. I really think some of these should be implemented before talking about bowstrings.

[Realmzmaster]

I play an archer most of the time. It does not bother me, but YMMV. I want other things implemented before bowstrings.

[Riknas]

I would echo Realmzmaster. Bowstrings would be nice, but if it if it takes a while to make functioning, there are other things that should have higher priorities.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I play an archer most of the time. It does not bother me, but YMMV. I want other things implemented before bowstrings.

That's cool. Obviously I think otherwise.

[Xewaka]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I am sorry, Mr Woo. That does not make sense at all in 2011. Maybe a decade ago that was rocket science, but in today's games stuffed with tech to make them more realistic missing bow strings just look silly.

Just because there are many more options available for developing games today, does not necessarily make any particular feature easier, more desirable, or appropriate to put into every game. Each game is a separate product with its own budgets, available zots, and code. it is not necessarily a simple matter of hitting a big red "add weapon animations to engine" button.
Game development is not magic. Actual work is involved at every stage in the process, and for every system and feature.

I am well aware of that. All things added to the game require effort. That doesn't mean it is not silly to ommit a bow string when modern games *are* trying to create a believable reality.

What would you like them to cut for animated weapons? 

Paraphrases and cinematic presentation.

[Relix28]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am sorry, Mr Woo. That does not make sense at all in 2011. Maybe a decade ago that was rocket science, but in today's games stuffed with tech to make them more realistic missing bow strings just look silly.

Just because there are many more options available for developing games today, does not necessarily make any particular feature easier, more desirable, or appropriate to put into every game. Each game is a separate product with its own budgets, available zots, and code. it is not necessarily a simple matter of hitting a big red "add weapon animations to engine" button.

Game development is not magic. Actual work is involved at every stage in the process, and for every system and feature.

I am well aware of that. All things added to the game require effort. That doesn't mean it is not silly to ommit a bow string when modern games *are* trying to create a believable reality.

What would you like them to cut for animated weapons? 

Junk items? Useless generic gear? The new darkspawn? Act 3?

Modifié par Relix28, 14 novembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Realmzmaster]

Relix28 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am sorry, Mr Woo. That does not make sense at all in 2011. Maybe a decade ago that was rocket science, but in today's games stuffed with tech to make them more realistic missing bow strings just look silly.

Just because there are many more options available for developing games today, does not necessarily make any particular feature easier, more desirable, or appropriate to put into every game. Each game is a separate product with its own budgets, available zots, and code. it is not necessarily a simple matter of hitting a big red "add weapon animations to engine" button.

Game development is not magic. Actual work is involved at every stage in the process, and for every system and feature.

I am well aware of that. All things added to the game require effort. That doesn't mean it is not silly to ommit a bow string when modern games *are* trying to create a believable reality.

What would you like them to cut for animated weapons? 

Junk items? Useless generic gear? The new darkspawn? Act 3?

So you are saying Bioware should have stopped at Act 2 so bowstrings could be added. Thereby making a shorter game even shorter? I sure that would go over real well? BBut if you are saying that Act 3 should have been done better it would still leave no time or resources for bowstrings.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 14 novembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[Relix28]

*sigh* Why do people tend to take my sarkazm seriously so?

[Realmzmaster]

Relix28 wrote...

*sigh* Why do people tend to take my sarkazm seriously so?

Maybe because it does not come across as sarcasm.

[Stanley Woo]

Relix28 wrote...

*sigh* Why do people tend to take my sarkazm seriously so?

Because tone is difficult to convey in a text-only communications medium?

[Relix28]

Hm, good point.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Also, all of those things you listed are credibly less valuable to someone than bowstrings would be.

[Riknas]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

*sigh* Why do people tend to take my sarkazm seriously so?

Because tone is difficult to convey in a text-only communications medium?

No wonder people made such a big deal about the paraphrasing in the dialogue wheel.

[TheRealJayDee]

I would say next time don't spend time and resources on needlessly redesigning 3 of your 5 major races and instead add frickin' bowstrings. Then again, from DA2 to DA3 you actually do need to re-redesign at least 2 of said races. Hm, maybe the resources not spent on making new new Kossith can be transferred to the Bioware bowstring department?

[TEWR]

thats1evildude wrote...

You don't eat food or sleep or defecate in DA either.That is not part of a "believable reality," but those things are left out because requiring game characters to attend to the same every-day needs we have is difficult to implement and not very fun.

However, eating and sleeping could be used to strengthen certain points of storytelling if they are used in conjunction with other things.

Defecation not so much.

I actually remember a similar discussion that Stanley Woo took part in where I brought up something and he talked about eating and sleeping and he said -- IIRC -- that it would give little gain for something that took a bit of effort.

But I disagreed in a way. As I said in my first sentence, it could be used to strengthen storytelling. A simple dinner scene with Leandra and Hawke where they can talk -- though some may find it boring -- would help to establish that they're still a close family.

Then after dinner Hawke could choose to warn her about Quentin. A.K.A the White Lily Killer. A.K.A the Kirkwall Killer.

It would give the players the sense that Hawke is trying to keep Leandra safe by warning her about what's out there. Even if he would ultimately fail in protecting her, some effort -- though not as much as I and some others would like him to have done -- would've been made.

It wouldn't even have to show them chewing if the engine is incapable of showing it. Just focus on the back of their heads with them bringing the fork to their mouths. Whoever is being shown could talk without bringing the fork to their mouths.

There's a few things that could be done if chewing animations were an issue, though I doubt they are.

[thats1evildude]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

A simple dinner scene with Leandra and Hawke where they can talk -- though some may find it boring -- would help to establish that they're still a close family. Then after dinner Hawke could choose to warn her about Quentin. A.K.A the White Lily Killer. A.K.A the Kirkwall Killer.

What you're discussing is the presentation of a cutscene. While it might be nice for Hawke to chat with Leandra over dinner, the conversation you're referencing could just as easily occur when Hawke and Leandra are strolling through a garden or walking along a city street.

However, what I was referencing (and I suspect what Stanley was talking about) are in-game mechanics that require the PC to periodically eat or sleep. For example, in GTA: San Andreas, Carl had to ocassionally stop to eat or he would lose muscle mass. In Bully, the main character has to sleep every night or collapse from exhaustion.

The other poster said it would make for a more "believable reality" to include bowstrings. But if we're going strictly by what's presented on the screen, this is not a "believable reality" to begin with. It is in no way realistic for your Hawke to run for days — nay, weeks on end — without stopping to eat, drink, poop or sleep.

So, would it make the game a more "believable reality" to include mechanics that force the player to periodically stop to attend to basic needs? Sure. Would it make the game more fun? Christ no.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 15 novembre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Realmzmaster]

Actually eating, drinking and sleeping were use to great effect in the Alternate Reality games :City and Dungeon back in 1985 and 1987 respectively. If the character did not eat, drink or sleep it would slowing start affecting the character's stats. If these necessities could not be found or purchase in time the character would die. The character was able to carry a certain amount of water and food with him/her. Also if you bought drinks at the local taverns the patrons would remember. If you were down on your luck the patrons would buy you food and water.

The character was also more prone to attack from the nefarious elements of the City or Dungeon. The game also had banks where the player could deposit money and collect interest. The character could also look for mundane work to raise money.

It was suppose to be a 7 games series sadly it was never finished. The game was a lot of fun, so it can and has been done.

[Foolsfolly]

I'd like scabbards first.

The floating weapon thing is weird. As is the lack of bowstrings, I agree. But if there wasn't enough resources to add those things than there wasn't enough resources. This was a game where like 70% of your enemies where the same looking bandits and every Qunari had the exact same face with their only differences being how great a stage of undress they happened to be.

I believe they made the right choices to focus on with the resources available. I'd love for bowstrings and scabbards to appear in the next game, though.

[culletron1]

Seems to me to be down to engine constraints... If this was an easy thing to do with the engine they had they almost certainly would have done it.

Which makes me wonder... Are bioware developing or planning to develop a new engine which supports the type of game play we know and love in DA?

Or are they planning on using 3rd party tools from now on?