260 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sounds like you're more interested in assigning blame to assuage your disappointment rather than engaging in actual discussion, devSin. And that's cool and everything, but we've already talked about some of the ways where we went wrong and can improve on future projects and have engaged in several multi-page threads to that effect. We're not going to grovel on request.

That's totally unfair.

What I say is that you can't have an open and frank discussion if you can't be open and frank. I'd very absolutely positively 100% be interested in engaging in that discussion, but I realize that it's not a discussion anybody in the company can publicly have.

So it's okay for you to come and throw out how marketing maybe left some people unsatisfied, or how you failed to convey to some fans about what exactly the Dragon Age II experience was (even though those things have been said many times in the past), and when I point out that you failed to complete your response (by leaving out the part where you actually screwed up the game too), suddenly I'm "assigning blame to assuage your disappointment" and this has been fully resolved by Mike Laidlaw (who I think is great, by the way) posting a checklist of the top four things to be improved in the future, instead of directing you to maybe resond honestly to the statement you chose to quote ("I wanted to love it, and eventually it has grown on me, but I still feel like it had the potential to be much more than what it was. From the recycled areas, to the shallow side quests and badly implemented endgame, I wish there was more to it every time I play.")?

If you can't discuss it, then don't. But don't accuse me of simply trying to take pot-shots or castigate the team for their mistakes when I point out that there's more to the story than simply failures in marketing or community outreach (and somehow, you're able to discuss those things without feeling like you're being asked to "grovel on request").

And my only real disappointment, since you bring it up, is that you continue to flake out on patches, and I wanted my hi-res textures for Item Pack #1. I actually enjoyed the game (as I said), probably prefer the story and gameplay over Origins, have purchased every single DLC (and will purchase any future DLC), and say in every other post I make here how I want MOAR from the team (and you clearly don't know me if you think I'd ever blame David for anything, other than fabulousness, maybe). But as far as I'm aware, this doesn't disqualify me from acknowledging the actual faults of the game.

Modifié par devSin, 24 novembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[Stanley Woo]

devSin wrote...
That's totally unfair.

A little unfair, maybe, but totally? i disagree.

What I say is that you can't have an open and frank discussion if you can't be open and frank. I'd very absolutely positively 100% be interested in engaging in that discussion, but I realize that it's not a discussion anybody in the company can publicly have.

This is why I always qualify "as opnely and honestly" with "as we can." While we both appear to see this as a necessity, you are still asking for a discussion that we can't have.

If you can't discuss it, then don't. But don't accuse me of simply trying to take pot-shots or castigate the team for their mistakes when I point out that there's more to the story than simply failures in marketing or community outreach (and somehow, you're able to discuss those things without feeling like you're being asked to "grovel on request").

Not discussing it at all means we are then accused of not responding to fans' concerns, not listening to the "paying customers." I really don't know where the balance is, but i'd prefer to keep the lines of communication open, hence the sometimes repetitive and evasive nature of my posts.

And my only real disappointment, since you bring it up, is that you continue to flake out on patches, and I wanted my hi-res textures for Item Pack #1. I actually enjoyed the game (as I said), probably prefer the story and gameplay over Origins, have purchased every single DLC (and will purchase any future DLC), and say in every other post I make here how I want MOAR from the team (and you clearly don't know me if you think I'd ever blame David for anything, other than fabulousness, maybe). But as far as I'm aware, this doesn't disqualify me from acknowledging the actual faults of the game.

You can't blame David Gaider for fabulousness! i've been doing that for over a decade!

And no, I'm not trying to dismiss your comments on the game or sharing your opinion. perhaps our lines were just crossed, as I was responding to the seemingly accusatory tone of comments like "I'm sorry, but this just seems to be lip service." and "If you can't even own up to it, then you're not actually here to participate, you're simply here to try to placate." So i'm sorry if I've misinterpreted.

[eroeru]

Stanley Woo wrote...
 We're not going to grovel on request.

XD

[Agamo45]

I like how in DA2 the archer doesn't even reach back to grab an arrow from the quiver, he just shoots arrows that appear out of thin air.

[addiction21]

Agamo45 wrote...

I like how in DA2 the archer doesn't even reach back to grab an arrow from the quiver, he just shoots arrows that appear out of thin air.

Those arrows are just as magical as the bowstrings.

[devSin]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And no, I'm not trying to dismiss your comments on the game or sharing your opinion. perhaps our lines were just crossed, as I was responding to the seemingly accusatory tone of comments like "I'm sorry, but this just seems to be lip service." and "If you can't even own up to it, then you're not actually here to participate, you're simply here to try to placate." So i'm sorry if I've misinterpreted.

I fail to see how that translates to me trying to assign blame for whatever problems the game has...

The problem is that you say the strike team was deployed, but were they really? David Gaider has always been a habitual poster (he would have been here regardless), and with the novels and the Twitter, he doesn't even post much of anything anymore (and it really was a ghost town here when the game first dropped, and David's interaction since has been more or less precision-targeted). John Epler is mostly concerned with being awesome and perfecting his own craft, so most his posts are very narrow (and again, it mostly seemed to be because he wanted to be there). Mike Laidlaw offered substance I think twice. He gave the list (and I liked the list), but not much else. And you yourself quote an entire paragraph about an opinion of the game and can only address the first sentence (and I guarantee you, when most people who would complain about BioWare not being receptive to or caring about the community, they're not thinking primarily about the marketing campaign).

I've been visiting the forums pretty regularly. I think I know most of the things that were said. And I take issue with you suggesting that it is proof that "arguments like BioWare not caring about the community or about making good games fall flat".

I believe BioWare cares because I believe BioWare kicks butt. I wasn't convinced to believe BioWare cares because they came to the forums and were 99% unable to address the fan reaction and the many substantial complaints about the game (just as you did right here in the post where you try to say "this is why you should know we care"; I saw you do it!).

I know I'm being a turd about it, but I simply don't think you get to claim the high road here. Since you can't express it with words, you're going to have to do it with action, and until then, you're going to have to accept that, yes, you kind of maybe deserve some of the skepticism and some of the negative impressions.

So basically, the arguments don't fall flat, because you don't actually have anything to counter them with (or if you do you have yet to put it forth). And I don't think it's a fair discussion, because you're accepting that you're making a point, but it's based on what you know to be true, not what you're able to argue.

Modifié par devSin, 24 novembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[AlexXIV]

jlb524 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
So I downloaded it a day before release and played the next day, without really expecting too much, without waiting for it for a year or half a year, etc.. And it was much more than I expected. The problem is that DA2 was the other way round. I waited for it, expected much.

I acutally had the opposite experience.

Expectations are a funny thing.

Well if you expect nothing and get something you are positively surprised, and then you expect something and don't get it you are negatively surprised. So I guess it is fair to say that DA2 had it harder. At least for me who didn't belong to the pre-launch crowd of DA:O, but DA2. So basically I missed the DA:O hype altogether. Honestly if they had just made a couple of things different I would have been happy with DA2 too. Nothing big, but saving Hawke's mom would have been one thing, and refusing to help either the templars or mages, or showing more support for the Qunari in the events of the uprise and before. Stuff that doesn't need to change the whole story but at least makes you feel that you have a choice, even if it doesn't work out as you planned. I mean they can still railroad you after you made a choice, but not having a choice to begin with for no apparent reason is just makes you feel they didn't bother.

DA2 just felt rushed in general. Many little things that I think could have been polished. Well and maybe they shouldn't let enemies explode unless explosives are involed. It's silly and doesn't feel right in a rather serious story.

[TheRealJayDee]

AlexXIV wrote...

DA2 just felt rushed in general. Many little things that I think could have been polished. Well and maybe they shouldn't let enemies explode unless explosives are involed. It's silly and doesn't feel right in a rather serious story.

First of all: I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. Just wanted to be the one to tell/remind you that the exploding enemies supposedly were a bug, that has been removed since some patch. Because whenever I bring up this point people come and tell me exactly that.

In response I have to tell them each time that when I played the game the phenomenon was very present and that to me it seemed rather like a deliberately implemented thing, perfectly consistent with my overall DA2 experience.

But what do I know...

[Zanallen]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

First of all: I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. Just wanted to be the one to tell/remind you that the exploding enemies supposedly were a bug, that has been removed since some patch. Because whenever I bring up this point people come and tell me exactly that.

In response I have to tell them each time that when I played the game the phenomenon was very present and that to me it seemed rather like a deliberately implemented thing, perfectly consistent with my overall DA2 experience.

But what do I know...

The frequency of the exploding enemies was supposedly a bug. They were always meant to explode, just less often. Critical hits or with certain abilities, so on and so forth.

[TheRealJayDee]

Zanallen wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

First of all: I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. Just wanted to be the one to tell/remind you that the exploding enemies supposedly were a bug, that has been removed since some patch. Because whenever I bring up this point people come and tell me exactly that.

In response I have to tell them each time that when I played the game the phenomenon was very present and that to me it seemed rather like a deliberately implemented thing, perfectly consistent with my overall DA2 experience.

But what do I know...

The frequency of the exploding enemies was supposedly a bug. They were always meant to explode, just less often. Critical hits or with certain abilities, so on and so forth.

Yeah, that's what I meant. There should have been a "permanently" in front of "exploding enemies". I'm tired, forgive me. 

[Zanallen]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Yeah, that's what I meant. There should have been a "permanently" in front of "exploding enemies". I'm tired, forgive me. 

Oh no worries. I just wanted to make sure people where explaining it correctly. And believe me, I know how it is. I just got a new job and have been working long training shifts for the past two weeks. And my first actual day of work is going to be Black Friday. Urg...

[Realmzmaster]

addiction21 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

I like how in DA2 the archer doesn't even reach back to grab an arrow from the quiver, he just shoots arrows that appear out of thin air.

Those arrows are just as magical as the bowstrings.

Why not, you have an endless supply of regular arrows in the quiver. Maybe the quiver is like a Horn of Cornucopia for arrows.

[TheRealJayDee]

Zanallen wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Yeah, that's what I meant. There should have been a "permanently" in front of "exploding enemies". I'm tired, forgive me. 

Oh no worries. I just wanted to make sure people where explaining it correctly. And believe me, I know how it is. I just got a new job and have been working long training shifts for the past two weeks. And my first actual day of work is going to be Black Friday. Urg...

Work sucks!  I do shift work (including night shifts), and I'm at the start of my first vacation in far over a year. Our work schedule was badly messed up for the last half year or so and I ended up working overtime pretty much every other day. My sleeping habits are completely ****ed up right now.

Anyways, good luck with your new job!

[Stanley Woo]

devSin wrote...

I've been visiting the forums pretty regularly. I think I know most of the things that were said. And I take issue with you suggesting that it is proof that "arguments like BioWare not caring about the community or about making good games fall flat".

We have always been involved in the community, so when all these accusations of BioWare not caring come up, I am always confused as to where those opinions originate.

I know I'm being a turd about it, but I simply don't think you get to claim the high road here. Since you can't express it with words, you're going to have to do it with action, and until then, you're going to have to accept that, yes, you kind of maybe deserve some of the skepticism and some of the negative impressions.

So basically, the arguments don't fall flat, because you don't actually have anything to counter them with (or if you do you have yet to put it forth). And I don't think it's a fair discussion, because you're accepting that you're making a point, but it's based on what you know to be true, not what you're able to argue.

Sure, I have [i]way[/i more knowledge about what's going on than the community does, but I'm hardly going to hold it over people's heads to be a jerkface about it. there are things i won't say, and things that I can't say. The "proof" of BioWare's commitment to quality, its games, and its community has always been in what it does. But those who come in here to vent and rant and rave and talk to us are generally interested in the here and now. They don't want to have to wait until the next game to see how BioWare has addressed their concerns.

Look at the DLC for DA2. Both Legacy and Mark fo the Assassin addressed some of the community's concerns regarding story, level design and combat, but some people are refusing to acknowledge it because they're not going to buy those DLC. there's not really anything we can say to those folks except "we've already done it, and hope to continue to be able to." Others are going to look at the next project and still refuse to believe we've changed or addressed any concerns, so great is their antipathy towards us and reaction to DA2.

So I guess I'm not entirely certain just what it is you want from us, devSin, or whether you want anything at all. Please enlighten me, because I'm just not getting it.

[Melca36]

Didn't care about bowstrings because I NEVER noticed. 

I thought it was ridiculous the Fenris did NOT wear shoes though. I noticed that.


Since there is discussion on the DLC here, I just wanted to say I have no regret purchasing it. Those added so much to the game and look forward to the others that come out.

Modifié par Melca36, 24 novembre 2011 - 06:28 .

[bEVEsthda]

Agamo45 wrote...

I like how in DA2 the archer doesn't even reach back to grab an arrow from the quiver, he just shoots arrows that appear out of thin air.

That's entirely appropriate, since arrows do appear out of thin air. Endlessly. Unlimited.

[AlexXIV]

Stanley Woo wrote...

devSin wrote...

I've been visiting the forums pretty regularly. I think I know most of the things that were said. And I take issue with you suggesting that it is proof that "arguments like BioWare not caring about the community or about making good games fall flat".

We have always been involved in the community, so when all these accusations of BioWare not caring come up, I am always confused as to where those opinions originate.

I know I'm being a turd about it, but I simply don't think you get to claim the high road here. Since you can't express it with words, you're going to have to do it with action, and until then, you're going to have to accept that, yes, you kind of maybe deserve some of the skepticism and some of the negative impressions.

So basically, the arguments don't fall flat, because you don't actually have anything to counter them with (or if you do you have yet to put it forth). And I don't think it's a fair discussion, because you're accepting that you're making a point, but it's based on what you know to be true, not what you're able to argue.

Sure, I have [i]way[/i more knowledge about what's going on than the community does, but I'm hardly going to hold it over people's heads to be a jerkface about it. there are things i won't say, and things that I can't say. The "proof" of BioWare's commitment to quality, its games, and its community has always been in what it does. But those who come in here to vent and rant and rave and talk to us are generally interested in the here and now. They don't want to have to wait until the next game to see how BioWare has addressed their concerns.

Look at the DLC for DA2. Both Legacy and Mark fo the Assassin addressed some of the community's concerns regarding story, level design and combat, but some people are refusing to acknowledge it because they're not going to buy those DLC. there's not really anything we can say to those folks except "we've already done it, and hope to continue to be able to." Others are going to look at the next project and still refuse to believe we've changed or addressed any concerns, so great is their antipathy towards us and reaction to DA2.

So I guess I'm not entirely certain just what it is you want from us, devSin, or whether you want anything at all. Please enlighten me, because I'm just not getting it.

You don't happen to have a time machine somewhere in your office? No? Too bad ...

I think a problem with DLCs is that people have to pay for them. So some say they are not going to give more money for DA2. Whether the DLCs are good or not, honestly, they are around 10 bucks for 2 -3 hours. Compared to the game which is was 50 bucks for 30 hours, and now even cheaper. I guess I don't need to do the maths for you, they cost the customer about twice as much as the base game. That DLCs are as good as the game should have been is all nice and fine, but for me buying DLCs is like giving an extra reward for the company for the game they made. So basically I need to like the base game enough to even buy DLCs.

What I am especially annoyed at is that people ALREADY complained about Awakenings and some DA:O DLCs being slobby and people were feeling 'milked', and then on top of it we get DA2. Which simply leaves me wondering if you bosses thought that their customers just swallow DA2 without an uproar. DA2 was supposed to make up for some things, and if you consider this, it was a slap in the face.

And now you are going to make up for the game that was supposed to make up for Awakenings and some DLCs of DA:O. I can't help but wonder if DA4 is going to make up for DA3 then. You know, that's why. I know things are the way they are and cannot be changed, especially not today or tomorrow. Yes, we will have to wait for the new game.

You know the saying, trick me once, shame on you, trick me twice, shame on me, trick me thrice, wtf ... ?

Modifié par AlexXIV, 24 novembre 2011 - 09:01 .

[bEVEsthda]

Stanley Woo wrote...
 The "proof" of BioWare's commitment to quality, its games, and its community has always been in what it does. But those who come in here to vent and rant and rave and talk to us are generally interested in the here and now. They don't want to have to wait until the next game to see how BioWare has addressed their concerns.

It's a sort of competition. The hope is to be able to shout loadest and most. The reason is of course the competition, "the delighted new fans" Bioware supposedly have won with DA2.  And the message of how Bioware is really looking on those mentioned "concerns" is not exactly clear. For good reasons from your POV, I suppose, but there it is. Still.
Uncertainty. Fear.

Because from my perspective Da2 was so mindboggling that I ceased to trust Bioware (speaking of proof in doing). I never participated in the discussions leading up to the release of DA2. I never played the demo. I made a halfhearted attempt to download it, but someone (EA?) had made it such an exercice in navigating-umpteen-pages/registering/drop-your-panties that in the end I didn't bother. I saw the alarmists on the forum, ofc, but confidently assumed there was nothing to it. The game would be just fine, I thought. "Plays the same as DA:O on PC" I heard, and let myself be content with that. How was I to know he was speaking only about control of combat? And absolutely nothing else?
Trust is gone. And then comes frency. What am I even doing here? When I could be playing Skyrim instead?

Look at the DLC for DA2. Both Legacy and Mark fo the Assassin addressed some of the community's concerns regarding story, level design and combat, but some people are refusing to acknowledge it because they're not going to buy those DLC. there's not really anything we can say to those folks except "we've already done it, and hope to continue to be able to." Others are going to look at the next project and still refuse to believe we've changed or addressed any concerns, so great is their antipathy towards us and reaction to DA2.

Speaking for myself, I have no antipathy towards Bioware. Rather, I think, I sympathize with your situation. My antipathy (or revulsion rather) is towards what I see as letting marketing peoples' visions guide the design of the game. As for the DLC, I have bought every DLC for DA:O. None for DA2. Antipathy? No, it's called voting with your wallet. What am I supposed to do, do you think? Reaffirm interest in DA's new direction by buying DLC for DA2? Wouldn't that be a lie? Wouldn't the new stylists triumphantly take that as proof that they were always right about the ninja moves, horns, feathers, spikes and fluffy white hairdos? And I would even pay for reaffirming them? Sorry, no way, and antipathy has nothing to do with it. Besides, my main beef was always about the new art direction and mood.

And I actually resent that Bioware have put in such efforts in DLC for DA2. I don't feel you did that for DA:O's DLC. And I think you just abandoned 'Witch Hunt' half made. And as I say, I resent that. I liked Awakening. I really did. But the feeling is the same, that the quality efforts somehow went to DA2 instead. The visions for DA2's "new direction" didn't just ruin DA2, it parasited off the tie-ups for DA:O as well. Yet another reason to dislike DA2.

So I guess I'm not entirely certain just what it is you want from us, devSin, or whether you want anything at all. Please enlighten me, because I'm just not getting it.

I can't speak for devSin, but there is the feeling that it's a tug-o-war about the future of DA, and I'm venting unhappiness and frustration. And I'll probably keep on doing it for a good while yet, because it needs venting. Maybe he does the same?

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 24 novembre 2011 - 10:11 .

[devSin]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The "proof" of BioWare's commitment to quality, its games, and its community has always been in what it does.

Really? So if all I know of BioWare is DA2, you think that proof of BioWare's commitment to quality, its games, and its community is just as strong for me? Or do I have to be a lifelong customer (which I am, which is why I don't need proof) for your argument to work?

You say that your commitment to excellence is what makes you excellent, but doesn't that just make it even more alarming when you fail to be excellent? Is that commitment now gone, now that you've done something less than excellent (if you're so committed to being excellent, how can you fail to be so? was it really that much of a commitment, then)?

Is it really so hard to understand why people would be upset, and question whether you'll ever be able to come out on top again? Because if the commitment you say is there couldn't save DA2, who's to say that it should be trusted to save DA3?

Stanley Woo wrote...

Look at the DLC for DA2.

That doesn't work either. You made DA2 after Origins, remember? You made the NWN OC after BG2. After BG2! Improvement today absolutely does not guarantee improvement tomorrow.

You have to be excellent. You can't just say you're excellent because you've been excellent in the past.

Stanley Woo wrote...

So I guess I'm not entirely certain just what it is you want from us, devSin, or whether you want anything at all. Please enlighten me, because I'm just not getting it.

I'm not wanting anything (well, since you asked, I do want another patch and those textures, but I'm thinking that's not exactly what you were talking about).

This entire thing was simply me not liking to see the notion that David and John participating in the forums should be all the proof we need that the community is taken seriously (I did not say I think the community isn't taken seriously or that I disagree that the criticism of BioWare not caring is dumb).

Anyway, it's really, truly not important. You just gave me the "oh, you're one of those guys" brush off, which is how it turned into this. I am not one of those guys! I am not! I promise! :-)

Modifié par devSin, 25 novembre 2011 - 02:33 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Look at the DLC for DA2. Both Legacy and Mark fo the Assassin addressed some of the community's concerns regarding story, level design and combat, but some people are refusing to acknowledge it because they're not going to buy those DLC.

Legacy addressed none of my concerns about combat, and offered only one level that addressed my concerns about level design (and that level's encounters were so bad with the waves and the arbitrary traps that the good level design had no positive impact on gameplay).

[Stanley Woo]

devSin wrote...
Really? So if all I know of BioWare is DA2, you think that proof of BioWare's commitment to quality, its games, and its community is just as strong for me? Or do I have to be a lifelong customer (which I am, which is why I don't need proof) for your argument to work?

Nope. You are free to think of BioWare as "not excellent" if you wish.

You say that your commitment to excellence is what makes you excellent, but doesn't that just make it even more alarming when you fail to be excellent? Is that commitment now gone, now that you've done something less than excellent (if you're so committed to being excellent, how can you fail to be so? was it really that much of a commitment, then)?

Again, no. Just as "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy," no amount of tweaking will be able to predict just how players will accept your game. Sometimes, this discussion feels like the discussions i had with my parents when I was younger. "How could you get 98% on that test? where's the other 2%?" or "You got 100% on the last test, how come you only got 95% on this one?"

Why should it be alarming when one of our games doesn't appeal to you? Besides the obvious money spent on the game, what does it actually mean to you if one BioWare game fails to meet your expectations? Apparently, based on this latest post, devSin, it means doom and gloom and the potential... what? It means you won't buy BioWare games anymore? I have always couinseled people to do their research and make educted decisions on buying games. If BioWare games no longer meet your criteria for purchase, well then, tha'ts your decision to make, isn't it?

Is it really so hard to understand why people would be upset, and question whether you'll ever be able to come out on top again? Because if the commitment you say is there couldn't save DA2, who's to say that it should be trusted to save DA3?

That doesn't work either. You made DA2 after Origins, remember? You made the NWN OC after BG2. After BG2! Improvement today absolutely does not guarantee improvement tomorrow.

You have to be excellent. You can't just say you're excellent because you've been excellent in the past.

We can't claim to be excellent, despite a history of great games, but you can question this same "excellence" based on one game? Seems like a double standard to me.

I'm not wanting anything (well, since you asked, I do want another patch and those textures, but I'm thinking that's not exactly what you were talking about).

This entire thing was simply me not liking to see the notion that David and John participating in the forums should be all the proof we need that the community is taken seriously (I did not say I think the community isn't taken seriously or that I disagree that the criticism of BioWare not caring is dumb).

But that isn't "all the proof" you need. the very existence of the forums, our participation herein, our approachability at conventions, our "commitment to quality," and even this discussion we're having--which I would glady have with anyone face-to-face just as easily as through text--are all indications that BioWare cares more than zero about the community. I'm trying to disprove the notion that we don't care, since some folks seem to ignore all the ways with which we demonstrate that we do care.

Anyway, it's really, truly not important. You just gave me the "oh, you're one of those guys" brush off, which is how it turned into this. I am not one of those guys! I am not! I promise! :-)

I don't even know what you're referring to by "one of those guys," but I think that if we were to sit down and hash this out, we would find that we're butting heads over things on which we actually agree and that we're merely hitting each other's buttons the wrong way or inadequately articulating what we're really getting at. Aside from a few details (and maybe one giant issue), devSin, I'm not really seeing a huge disagreement between us.

[FieryDove]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Look at the DLC for DA2. Both Legacy and Mark fo the Assassin addressed some of the community's concerns regarding story, level design and combat, but some people are refusing to acknowledge it because they're not going to buy those DLC. there's not really anything we can say to those folks except "we've already done it, and hope to continue to be able to." Others are going to look at the next project and still refuse to believe we've changed or addressed any concerns, so great is their antipathy towards us and reaction to DA2.

If you folk patch Legacy I'll be happy to discuss it. (And buy more DLC) The fact that it is harder to patch being multi-platform rather than PC only is a poor excuse. (To me). Someone wanted to go multi-platform for more sales that someone also should expect more costs involved in post support. If it's a case of DA3 is coming together faster/better than expected! then we have lost post support like DAO all over again. (In other words nothing has changed)

I'll blame your bosses...that works for me. Two Letters. _ _ .

[TEWR]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Look at the DLC for DA2. Both Legacy and Mark fo the Assassin addressed some of the community's concerns regarding story, level design and combat, but some people are refusing to acknowledge it because they're not going to buy those DLC. there's not really anything we can say to those folks except "we've already done it, and hope to continue to be able to." Others are going to look at the next project and still refuse to believe we've changed or addressed any concerns, so great is their antipathy towards us and reaction to DA2.

Though MotA's ending still has the biggest concern of DAII being unaddressed: Hawke being too lazy to take any sort of action when he should act, even if the plot were to dictate that he should fail anyway.

Otherwise, the DLCs are kind of an improvement, but it's still jarring -- for me -- to see most of the enemies not attacking in the same style that we do.

[TEWR]

How could you get 98% on that test? where's the other 2%?"

I am the 2%.

[tmp7704]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We can't claim to be excellent, despite a history of great games, but you can question this same "excellence" based on one game? Seems like a double standard to me.

I believe his point is, the actual level of "excellence" of the company is determined based on its most recent offering. BioWare was excellent in the past and you can certainly claim that, but it's become a question whether it's still the case.

And it's not really a double standard, as --especially when complicated 'creators' like entire companies are involved-- the potential is determined by their current staff, which comes, goes, and changes over time.

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 novembre 2011 - 06:56 .