663 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not complaining about the squad size, but... saying that is sort of like if you grafted a third arm onto someone's chest and they complained about it, so you cut it off with a chainsaw and were then surprised when they complained about that too.

I'm sorry, but I really fail to see how "less but more in-depth squadmates" equates to "having a superfluous third arm removed". That analogy seems a little out there. And besides, if they didn't like the third arm, they should be happy to be back down to two.

You're right, it was too much of an analogy grenade to just drop and leave. I meant that people still got attached to the ME2 squadmates despite their being less in-depth and wanted to see their stories completed in a satisfactory way, and they're less happy about the ME2 ones being less important than the ME1 ones.

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not complaining about the squad size, but... saying that is sort of like if you grafted a third arm onto someone's chest and they complained about it, so you cut it off with a chainsaw and were then surprised when they complained about that too.

I'm sorry, but I really fail to see how "less but more in-depth squadmates" equates to "having a superfluous third arm removed". That analogy seems a little out there. And besides, if they didn't like the third arm, they should be happy to be back down to two.

You're right, it was too much of an analogy grenade to just drop and leave. I meant that people still got attached to the ME2 squadmates despite their being less in-depth and wanted to see their stories completed in a satisfactory way, and they're less happy about the ME2 ones being less important than the ME1 ones.

I second this.

I'm a big fan of "less means more" and that could have helped ME2. I'm sure you read my posting: half of the ME2 guys are redundant and only vary in their powers. Why do we have three nearly similar snipers (Zaeed, Garrus, Thane) - one is enough imo, lets say cut one, leave two I'm fine. We have three (!) techs - one should be enough. We have two primary biotics and two secondary biotics.
Cut the roster by the redundant ones either by removing them or "fusing" those characters into one should reduce said roster by 4 guys at least. That means you still have 8 squadmates to pick from (including Team Dextro), that's still enough for the SM. 

Reduced roster should contain:

Miranda (Squad support) - unchanged

Samara (Biotic) - add Jack's warp ammo
Morinth (Biotic) - in case you don't want Samara. Fits Jack's role even more perfectly.

Garrus (Sniper / Fire support) - add Zaeed's disruptor ammo

Thane (Sniper / close combat) - add Kasumi's stealth

Mordin (Tech support) - add Legion's shield boost

Tali (Tech / AI-hacking / close combat) - unchanged

Jacob (Semi biotic / soldier) - unchanged


Not needed imo:

Jack (Samara or Morinth fill her role in more than one way)
Grunt (Not really needed except as meat shield)
Legion (Tech role filled by Tali, Sniper role filled by Garrus and Thane)
Zaeed (DLC extra - no need of another sniper / fire support)
Kasumi (DLC extra - nice to have around, but her abilities fit to Thane better)


That's just my opinion: A roster reduced to 8 squadmates should be enough. Team Dextro is in the staff because you need some "friendly faces" on the new Normandy - Chakwas and Joker are not enough. With only 8 characters every single one could have a far more interesting backstory and more story related primary missions as well, not just one recruiting and one loyalty mission.

Modifié par CptData, 23 novembre 2011 - 08:32 .

[HiroVoid]

Adding Vega, and maybe any new characters introduced in ME3 as squadmates was a bad idea. We've had two game so far. Use the characters from those games.

[Someone With Mass]

I think Vega is waaaaay more interesting than the VS myself.

More enthusiasm and less "Whaaa, you worked with Cerberus"

[Someone With Mass]

HiroVoid wrote...

Adding Vega, and maybe any new characters introduced in ME3 as squadmates was a bad idea. We've had two game so far. Use the characters from those games.

EDI isn't exactly new.

According to the script, she was *spoiler*the VI on Luna that killed everyone and attacked Shepard because her IFF hadn't been adjusted correctly.*spoiler*

Plus, it was pretty obvious that most characters in ME2 would just leave after the mission was done (or get killed, depending on what you did) and to prevent it from becoming a very long and repetitive family reunion, they chose to throw some new people into the mix.

Like Vega, who's there to help the new players understand things.

[Squidbreath]

nah. Old squad doesn't seem to have the better end of the stick atm. Not enough of the side characters I liked, and the lack of more female alien presence is disturbing.

And wtv's been done to TIM and Udina feels kinda cheap.

[manonyuf]

I have mixed feelings on this matter. They did keep two of my favorites from the first game (Garrus, Liara), so that's great.
The whole VS situation: I disliked them both, so I would have been really happy to never see either of them again after the end of the first game. (It didn't help that they turned Ashley into a space-barbie for ME3, either...)
Vega seems pretty interesting, and I'm more positive towards him than not I guess. The thing that irked me though is what people already mentioned before, and that is the handling of all the other characters from ME2. Even though I'm kind of looking forward to see how Vega turns out, I think I would have been happier seeing someone from the ME2 crew back.
And also, what happens to the people who romanced Miranda, Jack, Thane or Jacob? Are they going to throw them two lines and that's it, or what? I don't know...
I realize that it was not possible to keep all the characters from the previous games, but they should have considered this earlier, I think.

[Soccer FeverMan]

CptData wrote...

 Thane (Sniper / close combat) - add Kasumi's stealth

Truth be told i'd replace Thane with Legion, cuz Legion puts the geth perspective and could make things intresting if he was lying to you.

Really what does Thane add that makes him worth keeping the only thing that comes into my head is the Hanar and the Drell, but honestly are they really even important.

Legion on ther other hand is involved in the big Geth v. Quarian conflict. 

[android654]

manonyuf wrote...

I have mixed feelings on this matter. They did keep two of my favorites from the first game (Garrus, Liara), so that's great.
The whole VS situation: I disliked them both, so I would have been really happy to never see either of them again after the end of the first game. (It didn't help that they turned Ashley into a space-barbie for ME3, either...)
Vega seems pretty interesting, and I'm more positive towards him than not I guess. The thing that irked me though is what people already mentioned before, and that is the handling of all the other characters from ME2. Even though I'm kind of looking forward to see how Vega turns out, I think I would have been happier seeing someone from the ME2 crew back.
And also, what happens to the people who romanced Miranda, Jack, Thane or Jacob? Are they going to throw them two lines and that's it, or what? I don't know...
I realize that it was not possible to keep all the characters from the previous games, but they should have considered this earlier, I think.

I agree, it makes all of ME2, who's campaign is more than twice as long and has more decisions than the first, feel completely worthless. I'm still going to play it, but I can't help but feel cheated out of some of my favorite characters, hopefully I'm proven wrong.

[android654]

I sincerely doubt they're going to garner many new players, at least not enough to justify making the third installment "beginner friendly." I doubt you'll be playing as Vega, so the concept of using him as the guide for the new players is pointless really. In my opinion, introducing new characters in the third installment of any fiction will be met with poor reception, because there hasn't been enough time to flesh these characters out before the end.

[Nerevar-as]

android654 wrote...

I agree, it makes all of ME2, who's campaign is more than twice as long and has more decisions than the first, feel completely worthless. I'm still going to play it, but I can't help but feel cheated out of some of my favorite characters, hopefully I'm proven wrong.

That was clear after playing the game. how many missions advanced the plots of the saga? Mordin, Tali, and Legion. Most of the rest was just filler in the context of the saga.

[hawat333]

Well, I haven't read the leaks nor this topic (to avoid heavy spoilers), but I did catch two things about the game.
One, that the VS will trust a certain character in the game. Which totally makes no sense considering ME1's plot and character development. Except if VS is indoctrinated or something. But there's probably more to that subplot. At least I hope so.
The other thing, which is in fact a bit disturbing (if ture), that people who read the leaks state that the "Time for things to go wild" statement was only a small talk, and the plot is basically the same no matter what choices you made in the previous games. Which leads to a conclusion that the "Improved RPG elements included" was also a small talk. Because acting a role and making choices that lead to heavy consequences are what RPG is about. Weapon customization is not an RPG element. Armor customization is not an RPG element. They are tactical aspects. So I also hope for the latter not to be true.

But anyways, I'll defer judgement until I see it for myself.

[Kaiser Shepard]

HiroVoid wrote...

Adding Vega, and maybe any new characters introduced in ME3 as squadmates was a bad idea. We've had two game so far. Use the characters from those games.

On the contrary, reusing this many 'old' squadmates is a bad idea:

-Liara's already had an entire game in which she was the most important squaddie, as well as an entire DLC ánd a comic series dedicated to her. More importantly: her story arc was already completed with LotSB, and she would've been done much more justice if she simple stayed on as Shadow Broker on her own ship, as one of the more important supporting characters.
-Garrus I like as much as the next guy, but there's no reason to have the exact same turian AGAIN. Besides, Jacob pulled off the "bro" role much better in ME2, and we've already two entire seasons of the Tali and Garrus Show (feat. Shepard and Liara)...
-Which brings us to Tali, against whom I have about the same as I have against Garrus.
-As for EDI and Prothy, those are the most idiotic fan requests ever and BioWare should be ashamed for including something so pathetic.

Now, Kaishley actually deserves a proper role in the series finale, especially after the lack of exposure they got in ME2, and the quality of their portrayal in that short time. Vega I can understand, as we need a new human squaddie. And if they're having the amazing Alix Wilton Regan work on their game, they might as well have her voice a proper squaddie as well.

At that point, they might as well use established characters we already know as new squaddies: our new Shadow Broker friend could send us either Feron or Tazzik as her envoy, Veetor could replace the killable Tali (and differ somewhat based on your past decisions), etc.

But no, BioWare had to be spineless and pander to the labile xenophiles...

[android654]

Nerevar-as wrote...

android654 wrote...

I agree, it makes all of ME2, who's campaign is more than twice as long and has more decisions than the first, feel completely worthless. I'm still going to play it, but I can't help but feel cheated out of some of my favorite characters, hopefully I'm proven wrong.

That was clear after playing the game. how many missions advanced the plots of the saga? Mordin, Tali, and Legion. Most of the rest was just filler in the context of the saga.

Well that's just not true, Jack, Miranda, Mordin, Tali, Legion, and Liara becoming the Shadow Broker are all central to the plot surrounding  the collection of races across the galaxy.

Jack shows, the dark side of Cerberus and influences your decision of how to side with them before the coming war. Miranda shows the good Cerberus can do for the human race in this looming war. Considering that Cerberus plays a pretty sizeable role in ME3, indepth knowledge of Cerberus is important to the conclusion of the saga.

Through Mordin we learn first hand about the genophage and the problem the Krogans have against the Galaxy as a whole. He is also the unfying factor between the two peoples  (Krogans and Salarians) in ME3. Again solidifying the importance of unifying the galaxy against the repears.

Tali and Legion both show the opposing sides of a civil war, a war that is ongoing as the galaxy prepars for war against the repears, their survival and influence is crucial to gaining the trust of both sides in the final chapter of the story.

With Liara becoming the Shadow Broker, a character that has been whispered about since the first game, you know have untold resources against the repaer threat as well as information we couldn't come across otherwise.

While these things didn't progress the simple, "let's get the collectors" plot much, with what we know about ME3, those characters and instances I mentioned are going to be vital in the outcome of Mass Effect 3.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Veetor could replace the killable Tali (and differ somewhat based on your past decisions), etc.

I hope you are kidding.

There aren't many other notable quarians, and Reegar can sadly enough be killed.

Besides, wouldn't it be fun to "torture" him about his time with Cerberus everytime you go and have a conversation with him?

[Quole]

Kaiser is an idiot. You get used to it.

[Ryzaki]

Meh. If I really didn't want Tali in my game I'd just kill her.

The best thing about the SM. If I don't like a ME2 character I don't have to deal with them.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Quole wrote...

Kaiser is an idiot. You get used to it.

You really don't do much more than saying "X is an idiot.", "Miranda sucks!" and occasionally supporting that Desire Demon, do you?

[Quole]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Quole wrote...

Kaiser is an idiot. You get used to it.

You really don't do much more than saying "X is an idiot.", "Miranda sucks!" and occasionally supporting that Desire Demon, do you?

1. You are one of the few exceptional idiots. It has more meaning when I call you an idiot.
2. Miranda? You mean Michael Jackson?
3. Everyone likes Desire Demons.

Modifié par Quole, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:38 .