663 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Uh, I guess? Certainly I'm not opposed to Shepard being smarter. He's an officer after all so there is a good chance he had to get a degree at some point. That's not a given though.

True, which is why anything mentioning that would be optional dialogue.

You are questiong that I understand her or that she was smart? Keep in mind when she goes off on her pilgrimage she is either in her late teens or early twenties. She might not have had the same advantages Tali had, perhaps having a more humble beginning. Take Lia'Vael for instance, or the slave on Ilium, or even Ken.

I just can't imagine any adequately educated quarian expecting to be respected.

What I was trying to convey was that she was confident and thus very sure that her abilities would quickly earn her respect. When they didn't she realized being smart wasn't enough: quarians needed power.

Perhaps, though it's rather a large conclusion to leap to without something darker happening in her past.

[alperez]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I've said this before and I'll likely say it many more times, but certain fanbases getting better treatment was inevitable. If they had brought back more squadmates than they are, it would result in less content/dialogue/interaction with other squadmates for each, a tradeoff that would not be worth it. Bioware was forced to pick some characters over others; there was no way to treat all characters (or even all LIs) equally.

Which is all kinda completely negated by having both Tali and Garrus play a role in me3 that's larger than any of the other me2 characters.

Bioware already picked some characters over others, wasn't that supposedly their reasoning behind why Liara and the VS couldn't be picked for the SM?

By then also picking Tali and Garrus it does nothing other than shaft the fans of me2 specific squadmates, especially considering Garrus really doesn't or isn't needed to play a large plot role anyway, Miranda's arc with Cerberus makes more storyline sense than having Garrus do anything more than a cameo this time round.

As for having more squadmates, they don't need more in order for fans of both games to be represented or treated equally, a combination of both would have worked just as well, as it is we get practically the whole me1 squad back in large roles (even though 2 of them could have been killed in the sm therby eliminating the whole, its too hard to implement argument), so simply a replacement for one or both of the core squad with some me2 specific squadmates would have worked just the same.

Bring back Liara and the VS since supposedly the reason you didn't allow them on the SM was to ensure their presence in me3, add in Vega and other new characters if that's your wish, and replace the other 2 Tali and Garrus with characters who could fill those slots from the me2 specific squadmates.

Legion could replace Tali and fill the whole quarian/geth plot point just as easily and any Me2 specific character could fill Garrus's non plot related role just as well, hell if you put Miranda in Garrus's place your filling not just his non related plot role but allowing for the plot related cerberus arc to make more sense.

So while certain fanbases being treated different was inevitable, favoring fans of me1 over fans of me2 was not, or should not have been.

[Homebound]

Am I happy? I dunno man, I've been thinkin about that a lot. Sometimes I wonder what might have been and look at where my life is now and where I might be going. Sometimes around the day I just freeze up and stop what I'm doing and ask myself, was it all worth it? Was any of this worth it?

I dunno man, it keeps me up at night.

[Xilizhra]

In some ways she's a quarian version of TIM. In a broad sense anyway in so far as she is dedicated to the advancement and empowerment of her people.

Well, if we're talking about TIM, there's not much darker than learning about the Reapers (other than being killed by them, perhaps). Though comparing Daro and TIM could be interesting, as it's highly unlikely that she would go as far as Cerberus has in terms of what it does to its own species, even other organic species. Her vicissitudes would be restricted to the geth.

[ODST 3]

racer700 wrote...

I think if your love interest will always be a squad member, that's what i think anyway.

I think this will change. It's already been strongly hinted in Mass Effect 2 that Shiala and Parasini will be future romance prospects. Also there's Kelly, even though she's not official. But since so many of the lovers from ME 2 (Miranda, Jacob, Thane, and Jack) are not actually on your squad, there's not going to be the requirement that they travel with you to be your LI. I hope this means opportunities for romance will span the galaxy. Hopefully Wrex and Aleena get together some day.

[Xilizhra]

TIM never needed to learn about the Reapers. The Evolution comic is cheap crap catered to unintelligent people who have no appreciation for nuance or characterization. Why does TIM need prior experience with the Reapers to explain why he made Cerberus?

Hmmm. I see your point, but I believe Bioware wanted to tie Cerberus more intimately to the Reaper plot. If their ideas about Cerberus' role in ME3 weren't finished when ME2 came out, I believe they were by the time Evolution did. Cerberus could have worked as a relatively small loose end in ME3, but presumably the player reaction was strong enough that Bioware bolstered their importance. Though I personally wouldn't mind Cerberus being blown away like a leaf in the wind due to resource shortfall come ME3.

Thus the nuance I tried to express in my concept for a Daro'Xen backstory. She doesn't fall in love with a drug addict and get sold into slavery where she is raped every day. There is no dramatic escape and the death of a loved one. Instead she just sees a galaxy that spits on her and her people, perhaps wounding her pride and crushing her optimism, and she vows to change it.

I'm glad you set that up to demolish it, because raping a quarian every day would be utterly absurd. But I suppose I see your point; she was already driven and odd as a child, if that comment about performing surgery on her toys says anything.

Maybe. I suppose we have no reason to believe otherwise. We only meet her briefly so there is a lot of room to develop her character. Personally before reading the leak I always figured Daro would be revealed to be an ally of Cerberus in ME3, having joined with them to work together on perfecting Overlord and controlling the geth. Then maybe they double-cross one another and Shepard (and everyone else) is caught in the middle.

I doubt she'd approve of Overlord. It'd be giving control of the geth to an intermediary instead of the quarians as a whole, and condescends to use the geth's own weaknesses of sapience.

[Quole]

alperez wrote...

Quole wrote...

While I dont diagree with everything you said, I honestly felt this was the case in ME2 as well. To a lesser extent anyway. I still cringe at the fact that Miranda can get shot while unloyal and survive but Garrus cant. I mean really WHAT THE **** IS THAT?

Funny you say that because if that's not clear evidence of bad planning then i'm not sure what is, Miranda is practically unkillable in me2, Why?

Well you'd expect that perhaps given the fact cerberus play such a large role in me3 that its because they intended for Miranda to survive in almost all playthroughs allowing her to play a large role in me3 and the cerberus storyline, then off course you'd read the script leak and find that nope that doesn't seem to be the case and she like all the other me2 specific squadmates all play pretty much the same roles.

It is indeed rather confusing. My point however is that all the squadmates should have played a similar role in ME3, so none of them should have been near immortal, like Miranda. For the people saying that wouldnt be possible because there are so many squad mates in ME2... well thats my point: There should not have been that many squad mates in ME2. So many squadmates were pointless. Samara, Grunt, and Jacob as examples.

Modifié par Quole, 24 novembre 2011 - 05:42 .

[alperez]

Cthulhu42 wrote...


Tali and Garrus were picked to return because
a) They were in both earlier games. ME is a trilogy, not just three individual games and having teammates that are with you from start to finish is important in that regard. Establishing them as being the only ones to stick by Shepard through two missions only to throw them away for the last is silly.
They are among the most popular characters. By including them, Bioware keeps more fans happy than if they chose any other two ME2 squadmates.
c) They are the two best characters in the series. Subjective, I know, but I said it anyway.

A) could have been true with any of the original me1 squadmates, they picked tali and garrus therby favoring those 2 over the others, which kinda is the point that people are annoyed with.

As for mass effect being a trilogy and not just 3 indvidual games, thats subjective, especially considering the big choices you make through that trilogy don't really have ramifications if the script leak is to be believed.

But apart from that simply having tali and garrus in the game itself is enough of a link through all 3 especially considering they, reduced Liara and the VS's role in me2 and are now bringing them back in a larger role in me3, so why could the opposite not be true also, have Garrus and Tali play a reduced role this time round because they've played a large role in me2.

The problem is off course that bioware decided to favor those characters which again is what annoys people especially at the expense of characters that they themselves favor.

fan favoritism didn't work for Wrex, so why should it be any different for garrus and tali, again the answer is simple, its not fan favoritism that decides but Bioware's own favoritism.

Also since most peoples bone of contention is that Tali and garrus's are given larger roles and other characters are given smaller ones, then appealing to the combined tali/garrus fanbases at the expense of every other is not keeping more fans happy than not, its actually achieving the opposite effect.

When you also add in that ps3 fans only played me2, your also completely dismissing their own feelings, because i gurantee that the whole Tali/garrus popularity is initially from people who played me1 and has less to do with people who only played me2, thier roles in me2 just don't increase their popularity with people who weren't fans to begin with.

c) normally i respect any opinion offered, but when its subjective it creates a problem, so i'll simply respond subjectively.

No they aren't.

[alperez]

Quole wrote...

It is indeed rather confusing.

On It's own its annoying, but it ends up being  just another example of how poorly planned out the whole trilogy really was.

At some point a choice had to be made in relation to how things would play out in the endgame, considering most of the issues we face are the logical extension of the story it makes sense that even if you did rudimentry planning you could have worked things out in order to play into that endgame.

We knew there'd be a geth/quarian dilema to be faced and that the krogan/genophage thing would need to be addressed, so bioware really should have known and manufactured the situations where squadmates would play into those situations, easiest way to do so is to make those squadmates unavailable for the end mission in me2 or unkillable.

At some stage someone from Bioware decided that cerberus would play the role they play in me3, given the setup in me2 and the comics/books i doubt they just realised it once me2 was finished so again it makes sense that the introduction of a character like Miranda would allow you to have a squadmate who played into that situation also.

To then not use that squadmate makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and is like i say evidence of bad planning.

Think about it if you were creating the story and characters wouldn't certain things be so obvious that if you missed them you'd slap yourself in the face.

Krogan/genophage issue, hmm we have this krogan called wrex and he could help us tie this all together, you know what we should do, we'll create a situation where he can be killed off, rather than make him unkillable therby ensuring he'll be in all future games ensuring we can expand that plot point without having to resort to using a placeholder brother character.

Works exactly the same for every other situation also, but no why do that, instead we'll create as many problems for ourselves as possible, won't try to plan anything out in advance and instead will on the fly just put placeholder characters in the same situations, people won't mind.

Seriously poor planning leads to a poor storyline, which is what i'm afraid is what i see when i read the leaks.

[Quole]

I meant it was rather confusing as to why they decided to make the series the way it is. Like having a ****ing suicide mission at the end of ME2.

[alperez]

Cthulhu42

1. Gears of war wasn't a trilogy sold on the basis of that choice though, so in that sense its completely different.

2. Now as for bringing up frodo/sam, again you miss the point which is that bioware made a conscious choice regarding certain characters from me1 and the excuse given for why it was these characters and not the others, was to save the others so they could play a role in the last game.

To use that excuse and then still use those same 2 characters in pretty much the same role shows that it was in fact nothing more than an excuse and once again proves they themselves treated the characters more favourably than the other characters, which again is the bone of contention most have in the first place.

3. Wrex not being an LI shouldn't have played any part since neither were Tali and Garrus until Bioware decided to make them so, Wrex was probably the most popular character in me1, they decided to reduce his role regardless.

Garrus and Tali were then turned into LI's during me2 and then faced pretty much the same potential repurcussions that wrex did, yet they still get brought back regardless which again shows a favortism from Bioware, not the fanbases.


4. Now as for some fanbases suffering, i agree it was inevitable, what i said was that which ones they decided to suffer was not, its a choice Bioware made and one which shows them favoring one set of fanbases over every other.

As for it being the same no matter which 2 me2 characters would be brought back, it wouldn't be, a large reason why people are annoyed with the Tali and Garrus treatment is they've had 3 full games, while all other characters have had at best 2 and at worst 1 and a smaller role.

Its the favoritism shown that annoys most people, not the specifics of which characters but the fact that every other character has excuses as to why they're not treated equally, yet these excuses don't apply to tali and garrus.

Can't have Liara or the Vs play a large role in me2 because they need to be saved for me3 is made a moot point when tali and garrus play as large a role.

Can't implement full roles for me2 specific squadmates because they could die in the sm is made a moot point since tali and garrus can also die yet still play the same level of role as always.

5) its not blatant lies, read up on Biowares own stats and Tali and garrus's fan favoritism is more largely based on fans from me1 than it is from fans who only played me2.

I like tali and garrus, they're amongst my favs also, however among people who played only me2 they're no more popular than Miranda or Mordin or some of the other characters, amongst fans who played both they win out which skews the figures somewhat.

[Ticktank]

Based on all available info (leaked and legitimate) so far, I rate ME3 with a B+, with ME1 and 2 being A and B+ respectively.

Plus points:

+ Story is moderately dark. Appropriate IMO.
+ Blaze of glory deaths possible for Mordin and Thane.
+ Reaper VS Thesher Maw
+ Sexualized Ashley Williams
+ An honest to god, clear-cut villain (Kai Leng)
+ Slightly expanded role of Aria T'Loak
+ Khalisah Al Jilani working FOR you, for once.
+ Killable Kahlee Sanders
+ All major races and their home planets (including Earth!) condemnable to annihilation based on your choices.
+ Squadmembers hooking up with each other if unmolested by Shepard. Great because of the nerd QQs on BSN that will follow.
+ No option to impregnate or be impregnated by a LI. Decency wins!


Bad points:

- Decision A and B both leading to outcome C (or merely C1/C2) in a little too many cases. Rachni Queen, Collector base and Heretic geth mainly.

- Tali the Admiral. She can see Rannoch from her house.

- Multiplayer. It used to be that Tali/Mirimancers and other associated mouthbreathers had no impact on your own ME gameplay experience. With multiplayer? Not anymore. Good luck when a female quarian soldier named Talilover joins your group.

- Neglect towards/apparent absence of any information on certain NPCs that are quirky and interesting. E.g. Shiala, Thanoptis, Parasini, Septimus, Animal Mother (Kal'Reegar) the Consort and Lorik the f'n man Quinn.

- Continued emphasis on NPCs that are bleh. Conrad Verner and Joker mainly.

- Sideshow Bob and Bambi (Garrus and Tali) getting priority seats on Shepard train, when IMO certain ME2 characters should have been given seats too. Thankfully, there's still an option to let them die in ME2.

- Another Virmire scenario with the remaining VS and Liara. Lame IMO.

- Borderline Deux Ex Machina plot/ending. I suppose a classic fleet vs fleet space battle finale would be too taxing on the CGI crew. Pay them better duh.


Will be buying the game for sure. Collector's edition...probably not.

[ODST 3]

Ticktank wrote...
+ Killable Kahlee Sanders

Great news! Never liked this self-important b!tch who deliberately leads Anderson on only to say "No we can't be together for no reason." She's a horribly boring protagonist compared to Shepard and the reason I find the books mediocre.

Modifié par ODST 3, 24 novembre 2011 - 07:24 .

[HiroVoid]

Ticktank wrote...

+ Khalisah Al Jilani working FOR you, for once.
+ Killable Kahlee Sanders

Huh.  Surprising.  I was almost sure she'd be indoctrinated, so players would have an excuse to kill her.  Good for Bioware.

- Borderline Deux Ex Machina plot/ending. I suppose a classic fleet vs fleet space battle finale would be too taxing on the CGI crew. Pay them better duh.

I wanted that fleet vs fleet space battle so badly.
*Goes back to watch the end of the first half of Gurren Laggan.*

Modifié par HiroVoid, 24 novembre 2011 - 07:31 .

[darthnick427]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

alperez wrote...

A simple combined squad of me1 and me2 squadmates would have made more sense, it would have added importance to me2 and would eliminate the feeling that certain fanbases are getting better treatment than others.

I've said this before and I'll likely say it many more times, but certain fanbases getting better treatment was inevitable. If they had brought back more squadmates than they are, it would result in less content/dialogue/interaction with other squadmates for each, a tradeoff that would not be worth it. Bioware was forced to pick some characters over others; there was no way to treat all characters (or even all LIs) equally.

While I agree with you I do think some ME2 squadmates should have been brought back as full squadmates even though I am a HUGE FAN of Garrus, Tali, and Liara At the very least the fan favorites of ME2 SHOULD have been brought back. I'm fairly certain they could have easily found ways to get Jack, Miranda, Mordin, Legion, and Grunt on the Normandy again with enough effort and cut Vega and the two other new squadmates out altogether (By my count. these were the ME2 fan favorites). They simply could have made a decision between Jack and Miranda if the were both alive. and if they were dead..well tough luck you don't get anyone.

[darthnick427]

Ticktank wrote...


+ Squadmembers hooking up with each other if unmolested by Shepard. Great because of the nerd QQs on BSN that will follow.

- Sideshow Bob and Bambi (Garrus and Tali) getting priority seats on Shepard train, when IMO certain ME2 characters should have been given seats too. Thankfully, there's still an option to let them die in ME2.

who might I ask hooks up? Cause Garrus/Tali I've been pushing for for awhile. haha:D and Mordin, Miranda, Jack, Legion and Grunt should have come back too if alive... so disappointed they aren't...screw Vega and any other newbies

Modifié par darthnick427, 24 novembre 2011 - 08:12 .

[HiroVoid]

darthnick427 wrote...

Ticktank wrote...


+ Squadmembers hooking up with each other if unmolested by Shepard. Great because of the nerd QQs on BSN that will follow.

- Sideshow Bob and Bambi (Garrus and Tali) getting priority seats on Shepard train, when IMO certain ME2 characters should have been given seats too. Thankfully, there's still an option to let them die in ME2.

who might I ask hooks up? Cause Garrus/Tali I've been pushing for for awhile. haha:D and Mordin, Miranda, Jack, Legion and Grunt should have come back too if alive... so disappointed they aren't...screw Vega and any other newbies

I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 24 novembre 2011 - 08:14 .

[darthnick427]

HiroVoid wrote...

darthnick427 wrote...

Ticktank wrote...


+ Squadmembers hooking up with each other if unmolested by Shepard. Great because of the nerd QQs on BSN that will follow.

- Sideshow Bob and Bambi (Garrus and Tali) getting priority seats on Shepard train, when IMO certain ME2 characters should have been given seats too. Thankfully, there's still an option to let them die in ME2.

who might I ask hooks up? Cause Garrus/Tali I've been pushing for for awhile. haha:D and Mordin, Miranda, Jack, Legion and Grunt should have come back too if alive... so disappointed they aren't...screw Vega and any other newbies

I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Damn. Oh well that's fine. I wasn't expecting it to happen anyway

[Quole]

MJmancers got screwed over apparently, from what I hear. Hell yes I am happy.