297 réponses à ce sujet

[nothing3839]

I am very disappointed by the community's discussion regarding the downloadable content in Dragonage and Bioware's decision to charge additional cost. I should say that I am disappointed by the lack of discussion.  A few threads that have been opened by people who are critical of the cost as well as the aggressive ingame marketing of the additional content have usually been flamed by the vast hordes of Bioware fanboys and the usual "no one is forcing you to buy the game..." arguments.  You know, I really expected a more critical and pro-consumer response from the gaming community.  $50 to $60 is not a small amount of money to pay for a limited user licence for a peace of software (thats right, limited user licence, not ownership, read your user agreement) and charging money for several hours of additional content is not considerate toward the average gamer's budget.  In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.  
I guess this was only the next step for an industry that is accustomed to releasing broken or unfinished products, charging full price, and then "fixing" the problems though a series of downloadable patches for months or years (oh and Dragonage has is fare share of bugs).  I just expected more from this community than "...Bioware is awesome...no one forced you to buy..."

Modifié par nothing3839, 23 novembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[Drogo45]

no one is forcing you to buy the game

[Beertastic]

Yes, the game has bugs and flaws, yes the DLC is expensive for how much content you get. Yes, Bioware is a company.



Still, no one forced you to purchase the game or any of the additional DLC (don't forget most of it comes with the game for free).



Whether you want to think that is a generic "Love it or Hate it" response, you have to admit it is true. If you aren't a die-hard Bioware/RPG fan there is no reason to pre-order their games or buy them the second they come out. Wait for reviews, listen to their communities, read up on it. Then you can make an informed purchase.



Don't blame the community or Bioware (regardless of how many mistakes they could make, they are a company trying to make money so they can pay their salaries, you'll just have to accept it).

[nothing3839]

Drogo45 wrote...

no one is forcing you to buy the game

Is there a prize for having a large number of posts?  Like a cool avatar or title?

[Krathax]

++++ snore ++++

[Drogo45]

nothing3839 wrote...


Is there a prize for having a large number of posts? 

Yes, your mom.

[Beertastic]

nothing3839 wrote...

Drogo45 wrote...

no one is forcing you to buy the game

Is there a prize for having a large number of posts?  Like a cool avatar or title?

Kind of ironic considering he has 10 posts in the last 6 or so days.

[toronto13]

nothing3839 wrote...

I  $50 to $60 is not a small amount of money to pay for a limited user licence for a peace of software (thats right, limited user licence, not ownership, read your user agreement) and charging money for several hours of additional content is not considerate toward the average gamer's budget.  In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.  

 
For $50 to $60 from BioWare you get 40 to 100 hrs gameplay,while others give you 10 to 15 hrs gameplay,in the end it turns out that you owe them money.

[nothing3839]

Beertastic wrote...

Yes, the game has bugs and flaws, yes the DLC is expensive for how much content you get. Yes, Bioware is a company.

Still, no one forced you to purchase the game or any of the additional DLC (don't forget most of it comes with the game for free).

Whether you want to think that is a generic "Love it or Hate it" response, you have to admit it is true. If you aren't a die-hard Bioware/RPG fan there is no reason to pre-order their games or buy them the second they come out. Wait for reviews, listen to their communities, read up on it. Then you can make an informed purchase.

Don't blame the community or Bioware (regardless of how many mistakes they could make, they are a company trying to make money so they can pay their salaries, you'll just have to accept it).

Sir, I am afraid you have to disagree on several points.  

Nothing that comes with the game is for free.  You are paying a whopping $50 for it.  
Charging additional costs on top of the original costs is not intended to pay anyones salary.  It is intended to increase of profits of shareholders as much as possible at the expense of people like you and me.  You should know this since you stressed how Bioware is a "company".  

I don't have to accept anything.  I can simply refuse to pay additional costs and demand that the content be released for free.  You can do this as well and it just might work.

[Sloth Of Doom]

I for one think that WC was overpriced and RtO looks like a gimmicky overpriced loot haul and i am in no way happy abut the DLC trend in video games lately.



That being said, I have no problem simply not buying them instead of getting angry at other people that do. Bioware IS awesome, nobody forced you to buy any DLC...and yes, the DLC model sucks.

[xcorps]

In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.

You do realize that this statement describes all business, no?



Banks-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service

Newspapers-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service

Cereal makers-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service



ad naseum

[Terwox_]

Well the facts are as follows:



No one is forcing you to buy the DLC's. The game will not be any less "complete" if you do not buy the DLC's. This is a fact, pure and simple.



To the question if the price is worth the mileage you get out off the DLC is a matter off opinion. And thus reaching any sort of unified conclusion is quite hard to achieve if not near impossible.



The question regarding the quality off the content in the DLC's are also a matter off opinion.





My personal opinion is that Stone Prisoner is worth it, but Warden's Keep is too short for the pricetag. However, both DLC's content are off good quality. But then again, there is bound to be those on the forum who will disagree with this. Some in a poorer manner than others.



The thing is, DLC's are here to stay, and personally I find them great. They are nice tidbits off extra optional content that add to the flavor off the full game. One can even release expansion sized content through this medium.

[Locain]

I think what Nothing3839 was trying to say (I know I am ) is that when someone on these boards posts concerns about the aggressive marketing, ie. ingame npc's that offers quests you can't get rid of, multiple DLC's in a very short amount of time and the fact that with DLC's this game could easily run into the 100$ mark for most people, people donøt debate it at all. It's hate or love statements that fly around. No contructive post are being considered by either side (haters or lovers).



I for one like the DLC, but then again a certain story about a frog and some boiling water comes to mind. I like the extra content, I just don't hope that this will become the next new trend on games in general. If noone critizises (spelling) any form of system whether it be government or gaming-industries we'll just have to accept whatever garbage we get... Just saying is all



Feel free to disagree contructively

[nothing3839]

toronto13 wrote...

nothing3839 wrote...

I  $50 to $60 is not a small amount of money to pay for a limited user licence for a peace of software (thats right, limited user licence, not ownership, read your user agreement) and charging money for several hours of additional content is not considerate toward the average gamer's budget.  In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.  

 
For $50 to $60 from BioWare you get 40 to 100 hrs gameplay,while others give you 10 to 15 hrs gameplay,in the end it turns out that you owe them money.

What?  I was not aware there is a price per hour free as well.  This just keeps turning out to be a bad deal for me...

[ITSSEXYTIME]

nothing3839 wrote...
"no one is forcing you to buy it" arguments

You might have had a leg to stand on if it wasn't for your next sentence: 

nothing3839 wrote...
 You know, I really expected a more critical and pro-consumer response from the gaming community.

 

If you don't like how a product is being handled: DON'T BUY IT.  Speak with your wallet, until then it sounds like you just have entitlement issues.

The purpose of DLC is to provide a new source of income for developers post-release, it's a trade between the consumer and the developer: a small donation for an extra bit of content.  You can whine about the lack of pro-consumerism all you want but when development cost reach the absurd levels they've been at the $60 price tag just does not cover the development cost on 90% of games. (Unless they sell really well, so like 4-5 games per year)  Not to mention the second-hand market which takes a significant chunk of that money away from developers on those very important retail sales and then you have the issue of piracy.


Sorry if no one cares that you miss out on a couple hours of content because you refuse to buy the $5/$7/$15 DLC out of a sense of blind entitlement.  It's one thing to demand more value for your dollar when it comes to DLC, but to complain about it's existence is pure ignorance of the modern market and development cost.

Modifié par ITSSEXYTIME, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:23 .

[slikster]

Bugs aren't fixed by DLC. Seriously, what is with you people.

[DJoker35]

I knew this forum was missing something...another "DLC sucks and this is why" thread.

[nothing3839]

xcorps wrote...

In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.

You do realize that this statement describes all business, no?

Banks-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service
Newspapers-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service
Cereal makers-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service

ad naseum

Ok ok Good!  Now we are getting somewhere.  Now, do you think this is acceptable.  And if not do you think you should just accept these terms even from a gaming company?

[xcorps]

I don't have to accept anything. I can simply refuse to pay additional costs and demand that the content be released for free. You can do this as well and it just might work.

It might also work for ATM fees, surtax on gasoline, social security deduction for your paycheck....

[Beertastic]

nothing3839 wrote...

Beertastic wrote...

Yes, the game has bugs and flaws, yes the DLC is expensive for how much content you get. Yes, Bioware is a company.

Still, no one forced you to purchase the game or any of the additional DLC (don't forget most of it comes with the game for free).

Whether you want to think that is a generic "Love it or Hate it" response, you have to admit it is true. If you aren't a die-hard Bioware/RPG fan there is no reason to pre-order their games or buy them the second they come out. Wait for reviews, listen to their communities, read up on it. Then you can make an informed purchase.

Don't blame the community or Bioware (regardless of how many mistakes they could make, they are a company trying to make money so they can pay their salaries, you'll just have to accept it).

Sir, I am afraid you have to disagree on several points.  

Nothing that comes with the game is for free.  You are paying a whopping $50 for it.  
Charging additional costs on top of the original costs is not intended to pay anyones salary.  It is intended to increase of profits of shareholders as much as possible at the expense of people like you and me.  You should know this since you stressed how Bioware is a "company".  

I don't have to accept anything.  I can simply refuse to pay additional costs and demand that the content be released for free.  You can do this as well and it just might work.

Nope. It won't work. If everyone stops paying for DLC and demanding it for free, chances are, you know, Bioware being a company and all, they will just stop producing it and we'll have to wait 6 months for a real expansion pack with no DLC inbetween.

If you want to look as the DLC that comes with the game not being free, sure, go for it.  You could make a valid point out of it since (being as it comes with the game) you are basically paying for it. I however, still consider it a freebie.

[Wickedjelly]

nothing3839 wrote...

I don't have to accept anything.  I can simply refuse to pay additional costs and demand that the content be released for free.  You can do this as well and it just might work.

They aren't going to keep making this content and give it away for free.  I could see arguing the pricing, the quality, or saying you would prefer an expansion rather than being nickel and dimed through dlc but come on...

You essentially want them to spend x amount of hours creting additional material for you without them receiving any compensation whatsoever for it.  Who would do that?

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Short answer: yet another of these threads will change nothing. Everyone has said, and will continue to say, "don't buy it if you don't like it" and that's the best advice we can give. Bioware has made their stance on this issue clear repeatedly, I doubt highly it will change, I'd go so far as to say it *will not*.



Those are the facts, live with them or don't. That's pretty much the end of this "discussion".



That is all, move along, nothing to see here. Any more than this, and it's trolling.



Thank you for your time, drive through.

[DJoker35]

nothing3839 wrote...


Ok ok Good!  Now we are getting somewhere.  Now, do you think this is acceptable.  And if not do you think you should just accept these terms even from a gaming company?

I think it is acceptable for a company to pay their employees for the work they have done and attempt to make a profit. Game companies included

[nothing3839]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

nothing3839 wrote...
"no one is forcing you to buy it" arguments

You might have had a leg to stand on if it wasn't for your next sentence: 

nothing3839 wrote...
 You know, I really expected a more critical and pro-consumer response from the gaming community.

 

If you don't like how a product is being handled: DON'T BUY IT.  Speak with your wallet, until then it sounds like you just have entitlement issues.

The purpose of DLC is to provide a new source of income for developers post-release, it's a trade between the consumer and the developer: a small donation for an extra bit of content.  You can whine about the lack of pro-consumerism all you want but when development cost reach the absurd levels they've been at the $60 price tag just does not cover the development cost on 90% of games. (Unless they sell really well, so like 4-5 games per year)  Not to mention the second-hand market which takes a significant chunk of that money away from developers on those very important retail sales and then you have the issue of piracy.


Sorry if no one cares that you miss out on a couple hours of content because you refuse to buy the $5/$7/$15 DLC out of a sense of blind entitlement.  It's one thing to demand more value for your dollar when it comes to DLC, but to complain about it's existence is pure ignorance of the modern market and development cost.

Regarding the development to cost ratio, you are certain of those numbers?  90%?  Why don't you look at the number of copies sold and the net profit for this release beafore you speak so authoritatively.  

Would it not be good marketing strategy to pitch the downloadable content as "free" and thus increase product sales?

What exactly are my "entitlement" issues?  Do I have a sense of entitlement or do you simply lack one?

[xcorps]

nothing3839 wrote...

xcorps wrote...

In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.

You do realize that this statement describes all business, no?

Banks-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service
Newspapers-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service
Cereal makers-they exist to make a profit by providing a good/service

ad naseum

Ok ok Good!  Now we are getting somewhere.  Now, do you think this is acceptable.  And if not do you think you should just accept these terms even from a gaming company?

Do I think it is acceptable for companies to be profitable? Absolutely.
Do I think it is acceptable for companies to maximize profitability in an honest, transparent transaction? Absolutely.

Do I think the terms of sale of some DLC are acceptable?
No, I don't accept them. Which is why I haven't purchased Wardens Keep. I won't however demand that they "give it to me for free" because they aren't in the "give me stuff for free" business.
I would accept the terms if the content was longer, or the price lower.