297 réponses à ce sujet

[Sashem]

My main problem with the DLC is not the cost or if they cutted it out of the game or not before shipping (which I don't think they did) but how in-game NPCs try to sell you the DLC. I mean, someone who doesn't buy the DLC should see no trace of it in the game, it's common sense and how Bioware did it further reinforce the feeling that the DLC should have been in the game and not sold "on the side".



Personally I don't like DLC in general, on paper it was a good idea but some companies are starting to abuse of this system...

[Inarai]

Sashem wrote...

My main problem with the DLC is not the cost or if they cutted it out of the game or not before shipping (which I don't think they did) but how in-game NPCs try to sell you the DLC. I mean, someone who doesn't buy the DLC should see no trace of it in the game, it's common sense and how Bioware did it further reinforce the feeling that the DLC should have been in the game and not sold "on the side".

So, they aren't allowed to advertise?  Or just not where it's most relevant?  Where do you draw the line?  Why?

[Schyzm]

Sashem wrote...

My main problem with the DLC is not the cost or if they cutted it out of the game or not before shipping (which I don't think they did) but how in-game NPCs try to sell you the DLC. I mean, someone who doesn't buy the DLC should see no trace of it in the game, it's common sense and how Bioware did it further reinforce the feeling that the DLC should have been in the game and not sold "on the side".

Personally I don't like DLC in general, on paper it was a good idea but some companies are starting to abuse of this system...

in 10 years all load screens will have 30 seconds advertisements.  bankit.

[Fantastic.Mr.Fox]

I agree with Sashem's comment above

[BlackLotus30]

DLC is not much of a problem with me. everyone have a different opinion on what content should be worth to them, you can't really argue about that. I mean I bought the CE and was willing to fork the extra 10$ for it. As soon as i'm able i'll go and buy WK. I'm not going to go and complain about short it was to me that never an Issue when I buy games. Remember during the nintendo and SNES decade? when a single game cartriges cost you around 100$ just to have an 8bit character jump around. People bought those games and enjoyed them. Let me tell you that the cost for a Neo Geo cartriges was even more expensise..



Do DLC bother me? A bit I remember the Horse Armor for oblivion and i did bit to that hook and it left a bitter taste in my mouth, to a point I was wary of DLC then fallout 3 came out and so far i bought all of their DLC for it because they did deliver on their promess for better content. I have a lot of faith in Bioware, the games they have released have always been enjoyable and are of quality. DA:O didn't dissapoint, I like their product and i'm going to continue supporting them by buying their product it doesn't really matter to me if it's in the form of a full game, DLC, Books or even expansions.



Call me a fanboy well a fangirl in my case if you want but let me tell you that there are far worse thing to spend you money on than DLCs of a good game.

[Fantastic.Mr.Fox]

I agree with Sashem's comment above

[Wickedjelly]

Inarai wrote...

So, they aren't allowed to advertise?  Or just not where it's most relevant?  Where do you draw the line?  Why?

There are plenty of ways for them to advertise the content without throwing npcs into the game that people click on and then are asked to purchase something.  It's simply done in bad taste in my opinion. 

[Sashem]

Well, the main website has its add-on section, the social site is advertising the DLC too and just as I am writing this, a nice banner under my menu is advertising the DLC and Bioware Points. I find this enough.



Advertising DLC in-game kind of break the immersion while you talk to a character or travel to a new area... But that's just me.

[The Demonologist]

[quote]Georg Zoeller wrote...

The pinnacle of intelligent discourse, contained here, in this post. The universe has achieved equilibrium. my work is done.
[quote]koshiee wrote...

fanboys are dumb. EA must salivate at their idiocy. But like others have said talk w/ your wallet. Don't buy any DLC and hope that enough people do so that EA realizes it can only rip you off so much. [/quotse]
[/quote]

At the risk of irony...

You know we love ya' Georg, right?

[jsog]

I do however have a problem with the fact that they purposely released the game with no way of storing items, unless you fork out a few extra bucks. This is a disturbing tread. Releasing an incomplete product and expecting people to willingly pay a few extra dollars for something that really should have been in the initial release. I dont mind at all if DLC content is available to those wish to purchase more content. But you shouldnt have to buy a fundamental element of the game. Dont tell me about development costs for adding a storage crate either...

This was an oversight, I believe.  This is why a developer released http://social.bioware.com/project/463/, which is a party storage chest. 

EDIT: Someone beat me to it - either way, it was done by a dev I believe so I'm fairly certain that it wasn't intentional to make us pay for something so seemingly basic.

Modifié par jsog, 23 novembre 2009 - 03:31 .

[BioReaperEA]

Inarai wrote...

So, they aren't allowed to advertise?  Or just not where it's most relevant?  Where do you draw the line?  Why?

Well if they want to put Buger King posters up at redcliffe castle and Coca-cola billboards along the imperial highway, then they should be making enough money in advertising to allow free dlc downloads, but that will never happen.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Crevex wrote...
I do however have a problem with the fact that they purposely released the game with no way of storing items, unless you fork out a few extra bucks. This is a disturbing tread. Releasing an incomplete product and expecting people to willingly pay a few extra dollars for something that really should have been in the initial release. I dont mind at all if DLC content is available to those wish to purchase more content. But you shouldnt have to buy a fundamental element of the game. Dont tell me about development costs for adding a storage crate either...

I can honestly say that I've only used the storage chest like twice, and that was to put some stuff away like Alistair's templar shield and morrigan's robes (for sentimental value of course)  It's not a fundamental part of the game, but I'm sure packrats will like it.  Regardless, there's a free mod you can download released by a Bioware dev that adds it to the camp anyway.  

Also, look up what the word "trend" means, cause it doesn't mean what you think it does. 

[macayle]

nothing3839 wrote...

Wickedjelly wrote...

nothing3839 wrote...


You seem to believe that any action is justified by a company so long as it generates additional profit.  Perhaps that is a sound business decision in the short term, but I'm not so sure about the long term effect on the fans as well as the product quality standards industry wide.  

Hell no, most aren't saying that.  Just look at the amount of threads complaining about the issues with Warden's Keep.  Some of the people that disagree with your sentiment even stated they won't purcahse the dlc themselves in its current state.  Not everyone that disagrees with you thinks these companies can do no wrong or there isn't a a measuring stick that should be used far as quality and quantity goes.

Most are actually irked that you simply feel that anyone differing from your opinion is a fanboy or the such.

How is any of this justified?  Have I accused some one of such a thing simply because they don't agree with me?  

Yes you did right off the bat.  You claimed that anyone who did nto share your opinon was a fanboy


Look the argument you claim is lame is exactly the method that you should use if what you belive is true.ie if enough people stopped buying DLC becasue they thought it was a ripp off then compnaies would stop producing DLC because it was not be sound business sense to produce it.  However, as long as a company is making a profit from it and the resources to produce that profitt could not produce a greater profitt someplace else a company wil continue to use a DLC business model.

Modifié par macayle, 23 novembre 2009 - 05:08 .

[Malfunkshun Maplethorpe]

Drogo45 wrote...

no one is forcing you to buy the game

Exactly.

No one is forcing you to buy download content either.

If Bioware can make more money off people willing to pay, fantastic!  Better for all of us in the long run as they will have the resources to continue to make great rpgs.

Welcome to 2009.

[djo123]

ok i didn t rea all the comment but here my opinion:



I think DLC aren't too bad at least the one we got so far since stone prisoner was free can t complaint and warden keep was quite interessing and somehow worth the price few new talent, a chest to stack the stuff in and got will said a good hours of fun with.





but the [problem is the upcoming DLC is he pattern who start to emerge. give 20 minute to an hours of gameplay few item and charged 5$ and keep going on and on so at the end the 50$ game might ended up cost you said 100$ to be able to acquired all the item and all posible option of the game.





Which is bad yes developper need to make living and they oviously spend some time to design it but still i would rather then instead of having few hours of gameplay here and there then they develop something who last longer or maybe, if xbox live wasn t that bad for, then u could acquired this new content for free after completing the achievement who will unfortunayl unlikely happen.



anywya hopefully bioware would wise up and stop this little DLC release over and over and focus on fixing issue, mind to read all the issue we got on xbox 360 and issue the d*** patch, and try to keep they're good image cause now i seriously consier to don t get mass effect 2 just cause of this all sudden DLC release and no fix for console.





but yes at the end the DLC become quite overpriced for the return of investement you got and yes not forced to buy it just a sad reality to see then it just seem normal and i should be exicted to have to spend an other 5$ for the game for some new 20 minute content woohoo

[hwlreckles]

@nothing3839, What is seven dollars to you anyways? Yo I get that much each week snagging it out of tip jars. Respect yo.

[Godeshus]

To the OP- A few points.
1-A service or product is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. No more, no less. This whole business of throwing around words like "worth" and "value" is pointless as they can have entirely different meanings from person to person. This leads into:

2-Life is a series of difficult choices. No one finds it fair, but there it is anyway.  For me, I do not think any DLC for any game is worth even 1 penny because I am against the principal. So I don't buy it. This is my power as a consumer and I use it fully. This leads into:

3-We live in a capitalistic society. Everyone is out to make a buck. I am, You are, and Game Dev Companies are too. If this is something you do not agree with, which IMHO is completely ok, I suggest you pack your bags and move to a communist country. That is the reality of the situation.

4-The people have the voice and make the decisions, but demanding free stuff will get you no where. I will not elaborate on this. It is a simple enough concept.

You can complain about this all you want, you can DEMAND you get free content, and you can argue against these points of view until the next blue moon. Your point of view on the matter is simply childish. There are times in life when you have to kick back and say, "well perhaps I was wrong" and this is one of them. Doing so gains you respect from your peers, and continuing the argument makes you look even more foolish.

Modifié par Godeshus, 23 novembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[VanDraegon]

Ya know, i could understand the complaints of the DLC npc breaking immersion in the game if perhaps the game created a random encounter where the player and his party encountered the DLC merchant and he was hawking the DLC content. That isnt the case though.



The npc is at a base camp, neutral non encounter location. Considering that only a minority of gamers visit the forums of their games, it seems an obvious option of having the guy there to make the player aware of other game possiblities. Then again, when i play games i like to have as many options available to me as possible. I guess to sooth some ruffled feathers, the devs could put an option in the game settings to disable that npc from appearing ingame.



Hopefully soon all this rediculous moral indignation and repeated posting of the same topic will die down soon.

[bzombo]

nothing3839 wrote...

Beertastic wrote...

Yes, the game has bugs and flaws, yes the DLC is expensive for how much content you get. Yes, Bioware is a company.

Still, no one forced you to purchase the game or any of the additional DLC (don't forget most of it comes with the game for free).

Whether you want to think that is a generic "Love it or Hate it" response, you have to admit it is true. If you aren't a die-hard Bioware/RPG fan there is no reason to pre-order their games or buy them the second they come out. Wait for reviews, listen to their communities, read up on it. Then you can make an informed purchase.

Don't blame the community or Bioware (regardless of how many mistakes they could make, they are a company trying to make money so they can pay their salaries, you'll just have to accept it).

Sir, I am afraid you have to disagree on several points.  

Nothing that comes with the game is for free.  You are paying a whopping $50 for it.  
Charging additional costs on top of the original costs is not intended to pay anyones salary.  It is intended to increase of profits of shareholders as much as possible at the expense of people like you and me.  You should know this since you stressed how Bioware is a "company".  

I don't have to accept anything.  I can simply refuse to pay additional costs and demand that the content be released for free.  You can do this as well and it just might work.

you can demand all you want. no one really cares. as much as you  hate it, it is simple. don't buy it if you don't like it. you want to demand it be free. well, most are willing to pay. you're in the minority. that is fine, but don't begrudge someone else what they choose to do with their money. it's called capitalism. vote with your money.

[PhantoMSouljaX]

DJoker35 wrote...

nothing3839 wrote...


Ok ok Good!  Now we are getting somewhere.  Now, do you think this is acceptable.  And if not do you think you should just accept these terms even from a gaming company?

I think it is acceptable for a company to pay their employees for the work they have done and attempt to make a profit. Game companies included

Of course it's acceptable,i  mean think of the game company's this way,if you worked for one of these company's and helped make DLC,you would also expect your boss(the company) to hand you a paycheck correct?

Common sense can go along way.

[Freebeers]

no one is forcing you to buy the game. make your own game if you think it should be free!

[RedShft]

nothing3839 wrote...

I am very disappointed by the community's discussion regarding the downloadable content in Dragonage and Bioware's decision to charge additional cost. I should say that I am disappointed by the lack of discussion.  A few threads that have been opened by people who are critical of the cost as well as the aggressive ingame marketing of the additional content have usually been flamed by the vast hordes of Bioware fanboys and the usual "no one is forcing you to buy the game..." arguments.  You know, I really expected a more critical and pro-consumer response from the gaming community.  $50 to $60 is not a small amount of money to pay for a limited user licence for a peace of software (thats right, limited user licence, not ownership, read your user agreement) and charging money for several hours of additional content is not considerate toward the average gamer's budget.  In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.  
I guess this was only the next step for an industry that is accustomed to releasing broken or unfinished products, charging full price, and then "fixing" the problems though a series of downloadable patches for months or years (oh and Dragonage has is fare share of bugs).  I just expected more from this community than "...Bioware is awesome...no one forced you to buy..."

This is BUSINESS, this is not lovely duby time. They are a BUSINESS trying to make MONEY. They are not a nonprofit organization trying to expose gamers to new experiences through gaming. They are trying to make a living. The easiest way to respond to a business is with YOUR MONEY. It's simple, if you don't like their product, don't buy it. If that isn't pro-consumer, I really don't know what is. In this market the consumer has the power, in other words the money the businesses are going after.

If a grocery store was selling cherry cola and you don't like cherry cola, then don't buy it. If enough people, like you, hate cherry cola, and all it does is sit on the shelf, that flavor is going to be discontinued; just like this DLC strategy if consumers don't like it.

Bioware has every right, as a business, to "develop new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible from the consumer", as they are a FOR-PROFIT business. We have just as much right to not buy any product of these "stratagies and schemes".

[Auraad]

To the OP:
You can't change the time and the people. As a matter of fact, due to heavy marketing and advertising people have become dull, today. Most consumers believe what ads and companies say (edit: and the internet). Most consumers *dont want* to think.
This may be sad (depends on your attitude) or may be "so what".
It has been proven before: people who are not "too" intelligent have a better and more fun living, that's true! Try to be stupid and you're better off ... in these times.

A side note: in theory people would have the power to change things ... in this case, if no one would buy the DLCs, EA would stop producing them ... but again, that's only in theory, because in practice people believe that the DLCs are worth the money and so spend it. The only thing YOU can do is NOT getting the DLCs and you know what? You really don't miss anything! Just waint until the comunity has learned to use the tooset properly and you'll get tons of expansions FOR FREE!
(As a matter of fact I think EA/Bio try to get as much money from DLCs before the fan-mods com out, because in the past (NWN) some fan mods were better than the original story (again, that was true for NWN, it's hard to beat the DA:O story, however) ... nevertheless, wait!

Modifié par Auraad, 23 novembre 2009 - 08:32 .

[Nozamoc]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

nothing3839 wrote...
On the subject of game development look at the list of games you put down.  Do you even know the difference between developer and publisher?  Judging for the names you placed in the same category you clearly don't.  

I do indeed know the difference, but when you criticize EA game quality on a Dragon Age thread (developed by Bioware) I begin to doubt you have any idea on what you're talking about. 

I may be misinterpreting your posts (sorry if that's the case), but you are greatly mistaken if you think companies like Valve and Bioware have similar relationships with EA. Bioware is a subsidiary of Electronic Arts. EA owns them. It would not be a stretch to say EA developed Dragon Age. Though to be fair, the game was initially announced before EA acquired VG Holdings (Bioware's parent company), so EA did not possess Bioware during the entire development process. Valve, however, is a completely separate business that sought out EA's publishing services. There is a difference.

[Godeshus]

RedShft wrote...

nothing3839 wrote...

I am very disappointed by the community's discussion regarding the downloadable content in Dragonage and Bioware's decision to charge additional cost. I should say that I am disappointed by the lack of discussion.  A few threads that have been opened by people who are critical of the cost as well as the aggressive ingame marketing of the additional content have usually been flamed by the vast hordes of Bioware fanboys and the usual "no one is forcing you to buy the game..." arguments.  You know, I really expected a more critical and pro-consumer response from the gaming community.  $50 to $60 is not a small amount of money to pay for a limited user licence for a peace of software (thats right, limited user licence, not ownership, read your user agreement) and charging money for several hours of additional content is not considerate toward the average gamer's budget.  In my opinion this is a clear example of an industry wide trend of developing new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible for the consumer.  
I guess this was only the next step for an industry that is accustomed to releasing broken or unfinished products, charging full price, and then "fixing" the problems though a series of downloadable patches for months or years (oh and Dragonage has is fare share of bugs).  I just expected more from this community than "...Bioware is awesome...no one forced you to buy..."

This is BUSINESS, this is not lovely duby time. They are a BUSINESS trying to make MONEY. They are not a nonprofit organization trying to expose gamers to new experiences through gaming. They are trying to make a living. The easiest way to respond to a business is with YOUR MONEY. It's simple, if you don't like their product, don't buy it. If that isn't pro-consumer, I really don't know what is. In this market the consumer has the power, in other words the money the businesses are going after.

If a grocery store was selling cherry cola and you don't like cherry cola, then don't buy it. If enough people, like you, hate cherry cola, and all it does is sit on the shelf, that flavor is going to be discontinued; just like this DLC strategy if consumers don't like it.

Bioware has every right, as a business, to "develop new strategies and schemes to extract as much money as possible from the consumer", as they are a FOR-PROFIT business. We have just as much right to not buy any product of these "stratagies and schemes".

This is so true. I have to pick up tonic water for my gin by my work on my way home. My local grocery store and convenient stores don't carry any for the exact underlined reason.