32 réponses à ce sujet

[Vlad_Dracul]

Its simply logic. Dalish are specialists for fights in the forests. Fog Warriors in jungle of Seheron, what Fenris said, it seems they were Elves too. Only Velanna herself  almost killed everything between Amaranthine and Denerim. Now Dalish and all other Elves only cursing Humans for their crimes, nothing more. What if they are actually capable to destroy whole trade in Thedas? What if only few clans can do same massacre, like barbariands did to roman legions in ancient battles in forests? Even wars in vietnam and afghanistan are good examples. Would it be possible to wrote them like that in DA?

No surprise that so many Elves could be tired from life in ghettos, and be Quanari is more interesting option for them.

It should be serious suggestion for the next Arlathvenn

[EmperorSahlertz]

Because if they had, then the Elves would have been exterminated, instead of just subjugated.. In our world we don't have the luxury of being of different species than the ones we fight. In Thedas, the humans can "comfortably" exterminate the Elves, if the Elves persist in fighting the humans.

[Ausstig]

If they fight in the forest, we (humans) will burn them down. Try to hide from flames

[whykikyouwhy]

To more or less echo EmperorSahlertz, it's self-preservation that keeps the elves from launching an assault on humans. When Elvhenan diminished and Arlathan fell, the elves withdrew from humans (or attempted to) - but their power had decreased (lore was lost, "immortality" altered, etc).

Most elves now, it seems, are concerned with rebuilding their culture, or at least maintaining it. Guerilla warfare would not be tactically sound - it would only incur more wrath and more xenophobia, and potentially yield total annihilation of the people.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Nonsense. Roman legions were exterminated in forest more than one time by a few barbarians. Why they didnt burn the forests?  And people of Afghanistan survived and resisted so many succesful invasions in last two hundred years.
They arent like native americans to colonists - knowledge and technology is same, and they arent so small minority amongst humans.
So by my opinion, Elven resistance is serious option

Remember people, forests in Thedas are dangerous, and if Keepers can controlling the for example sylvanwoods or make werewolves from humans to attacks against their cities...

After DA2, when Chantry and others are in war with Circles and their allies, they have good chance to make colossal chaos.

Modifié par Vlad_Dracul, 15 novembre 2011 - 11:22 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Sure, it's a serious option...just not one that I see the elves undertaking en masse. Tevinter crippled the elven kingdom once, and given how the Imperium's technology has most likely advanced since the days of Arlathan, they are probably now in a position to do much more harm. The elves can use the forests, lure their enemies into the woods, certainly, but that limits the fight - when the powerhouses that must be toppled are large cities and realms, the elves may not have an advantage to press. While something akin to the Ents attacking Saruman's tower would be incredible to see, I just don't see the elves taking that risk. Not now, and not in the near future.

If the powers on the playing field shift however, who knows.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Arlathan was probably in decay even before human arrival, and Dals was weaker than Orlesian Empire, and we dont know, how they fell. Maybe not only because others like Ferelden didnt help them. Probably they were moreless peaceful society or if their commanders were idiots...
Servitude for humans..again...or fight and maybe, only maybe extermination. So Dalish deserves contempt and slavery, if they didnt want to fight.

[mousestalker]

We don't know the relative numbers. The legends say the elves were grossly outnumbered even way back. We do know that the Tevinters have always been slavers. We also know that the elves were freed from slavery in the Andrastean revolt and had forgotten a great deal of their language and culture.

Armed elves are illegal in Fereldan. Combine that with their relative poverty and paucity and you get a people who are anxious not to rock the boat. They are too close to extinction as it is.

[Wulfram]

The Dalish fought hard, were giving the Orlesians a kicking before the Exalted March was called and sacked Val Royeaux before they were done.

That's probably a big reason why the Dales don't exist any more

Nowadays, the Dalish don't really have much to fight for - they're not going to take a new homeland by force of arms, not and be able to keep it. While those who might fight amongst the city elves have their friends and families effectively held hostage - the humans are very willing to start a massacre whenever the elves step out of line.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Maybe because the elves aren't interested in an endless costly war with humanity?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 15 novembre 2011 - 06:43 .

[Gervaise]

Numerically the Dalish are at a disadvantage. They also cherish a hope of one day regaining a land of their own where they can live in peace but would realise that constantly waging guerilla warfare on humans would make that less likely. In Origins the actions of the Dalish in helping defeat the Blight helped to improve their standing, and if the Warden was Dalish, there was also the boon which resulted in a small homeland. It is highly unlikely this would have been granted if the Dalish had been continual aggressors. Essentially they have enough trouble with human prejudice as it is and suffer frequent attacks and harrassment when they go too near to humans settlements even though they largely want to be left alone. As one of them comments in Origins, in some ways they feel better off as nomads minding their own business because they do not really have anything that humans want. History has shown them that taking an aggressive stance has twice ended in disaster - now they just want to survive as they are.

[Lazy Jer]

Well for one the Dalish clans aren't that well organized.  For another then they don't all agree on how to regard the humans.  Some Dalish actually trade with some of the merchants that use these trade routes you would have them attack, some will kill humans found anywhere near their lands.  The Dalish don't have one ruler that's in charge of all their clans.

I should also point out that while they might be able to conduct some guerilla tactical manuevers against the surrounding areas of some human cities, it wouldn't fit their needs.  The Dalish want to recapture their heritage, not destroy all humans.  What's more elves sometimes leave human cities and join the Dalish clans.  If they were to really ****** of human cities the Alienages might be ramsacked and torched by the local human lords.  The Dalish, in that eventuality, would be partially responsible for massive slaughter of city elves, some of which might have been able to leave the city someday and become valuable contributing members of a Dalish clan someday.

So do some up, it wouldn't be effective enough to overthrow human cities, they don't want to, and they don't have the organization to really pull it off in big numbers anyway.

EDIT:  Felt like I should add something.  Attacking humans wouldn't really accomplish much.  The main goals of the Dalish at this point are (a) survival and ( recapturing their lost culture.  The Dalish are difficult to find for two reasons, (1) they move around (2) no one's really looking for them that hard.  If the Dalish start assaulting trade routes and whatnot, people will start looking a lot harder to find them.

Modifié par Lazy Jer, 15 novembre 2011 - 09:12 .

[Vlad_Dracul]

These arguments are still a little weak. Dalish now have problems with Keepers, knowledge and simple numbers no matter what. Good time was after Exalted March against Dales. Now they must hope that Chantry will be destroyed by Mages/Qunari with heavy risk, that one from them will enslave them all as in past.

I still think that there is only one option for them - attack.

Probably on some side, like in times of Andraste.

But isolation is only slower extermination, from what i saw in DAO/DA2.

[Herr Uhl]

Vlad_Dracul wrote...

But isolation is only slower extermination, from what i saw in DAO/DA2.

Why, hello there Dales.

[WhiteKnyght]

Vlad_Dracul wrote...

Its simply logic. Dalish are specialists for fights in the forests. Fog Warriors in jungle of Seheron, what Fenris said, it seems they were Elves too. Only Velanna herself  almost killed everything between Amaranthine and Denerim. Now Dalish and all other Elves only cursing Humans for their crimes, nothing more. What if they are actually capable to destroy whole trade in Thedas? What if only few clans can do same massacre, like barbariands did to roman legions in ancient battles in forests? Even wars in vietnam and afghanistan are good examples. Would it be possible to wrote them like that in DA?

No surprise that so many Elves could be tired from life in ghettos, and be Quanari is more interesting option for them.

It should be serious suggestion for the next Arlathvenn

Velanna attacked merchant caravans and small groups. Not whole armies that will have mages of their own.

Human society prohibits elves from even owning weapons and kill anyone that does. They go to lengths to keep the elves weak and defenseless.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Vlad_Dracul wrote...

These arguments are still a little weak. Dalish now have problems with Keepers, knowledge and simple numbers no matter what. Good time was after Exalted March against Dales. Now they must hope that Chantry will be destroyed by Mages/Qunari with heavy risk, that one from them will enslave them all as in past.

I still think that there is only one option for them - attack.

Probably on some side, like in times of Andraste.

But isolation is only slower extermination, from what i saw in DAO/DA2.

So basically the elves have a choice of slow extermination or quick extermination? I think I'd pick the one that gives me a better chance of not dying violently in battle.

[Malanek]

Is there any evidence that Dalish numbers are decreasing?

As for guerilla warfare, what exactly would the elves gain from it? It only hinders the enemy slowly while their own situation doesn't really improve. Also note that it is ony really effective when the terrain and political situation is suitable. So if they restrict themselves to a forest, why would the humans go into that forest? The majority of trade would not go through forests, timber would be extracted from the edge of the forest. I don't think the psychological mentality for guerilla warfare is present enough amongst enough dalish. On the whole thier leaders seem quite passive.

[Realmzmaster]

The elves will not win a war of attrition. It makes no sense to fight a war without a possibility of winning. Even if they fought in the forest each elf would have to fell many more humans to make the option viable. Even assuming that the elven birth rate equals human birthrate. With more humans eventually the humans would win. The humans can afford to lose more people than the elves.

Which is one of the reasons darkspawn are so hard to eradicate. They reproduce faster than humans. They take victims from all races. The humans are not overrun because the darkspawn cannot effectively organize without a ArchDemon or someone like the Architect or Mother.

The elves are in a similar situation that each clan is independent of the other. The humans on the other hand actually have a system where they band together for the common good.

[KJandrew]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Vlad_Dracul wrote...

Its simply logic. Dalish are specialists for fights in the forests. Fog Warriors in jungle of Seheron, what Fenris said, it seems they were Elves too. Only Velanna herself  almost killed everything between Amaranthine and Denerim. Now Dalish and all other Elves only cursing Humans for their crimes, nothing more. What if they are actually capable to destroy whole trade in Thedas? What if only few clans can do same massacre, like barbariands did to roman legions in ancient battles in forests? Even wars in vietnam and afghanistan are good examples. Would it be possible to wrote them like that in DA?

No surprise that so many Elves could be tired from life in ghettos, and be Quanari is more interesting option for them.

It should be serious suggestion for the next Arlathvenn

Velanna attacked merchant caravans and small groups. Not whole armies that will have mages of their own.

Plus she only fought local militias, not trained professional soldiers.

Also to the OP. In the Fog Warrior's case, neither side is particualry focusing on them, they're a bit more interested in the big empire's army opposing them

[Ausstig]

About the Roman legion, if you referring to the massacre in the German forest then know this; it was a trap a one off event brought about by the trust the Romans had in a native warlord.

Look at the second Boer War as an example of how it would go, it take a while, cost a bit of money but eventually the elves would be run to ground, put in camps or exterminated out right.

[General User]

Guerrilla wars are often successful at defeating occupying armies not because they defeat the enemy militarily, but because they make the cost of the enemy army remaining so great that they just go home. 

But the Dalish don't have a homeland of their own, if they fought a war it would be within the borders of one or more of the shemlen nations.  In other words, the shemlen armies couldn't return to their own homelands because they would already be there.  So the humans would have no choice but to do whatever is necessary to put down the elves.  And, that's a battle the elves just can't win.

[Gabey5]

After the events of DA2 would be the perfect time for them to strike. The human armies will be occupied as will the chantry

[Realmzmaster]

The elves still would not have a chance because you still have Tevinter in the wings. Also once the Mage-Templar war is over the attention will turn to the elves who are attacking the humans. If the Qunari win they will go after the elves to convert them to the Qun. Either way the elves are going to have a very tough time. Also siding with any of fractions involved would not advance the elven cause.

[Sons of Horus]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

They tried before. Then the Chantry called for Exalted Marches and crushed them. But like General User said, that's not guerrilla war. That's just war.

If the Mage-Templar war goes full scale and the Qunari suddenly invade at the same time, the Elves would stand a chance.

During the mage-templar war would be a bad idea due to mages becoming abominations to stay free and bands of templars hunting mages down, i think they would just want to keep out of it (a human matter). And if the Qunari invade they will look upon the Dalish as a people to convert to the Qun by force if necessary.