49 réponses à ce sujet

[lastpatriot]

Hello everyone!

With all the user guides out there right now, I was hoping that you all might be able to give me some clear guidance on how to play the Vanguard class and, more specifically, how to think like one.  So far I have played the Sentinel, Soldier, and the Adept on Insanity and found all of them to be really fun (Sentinel being the easiest by far).  With ME:3 coming out in March, I wanted to continue my FemShep from ME:1 as a Vanguard (it best fits the RP for her character) yet I always struggle with when to charge and what weapon to use.  So often I find myself charging into a situation w/o cover or starting to panic when I lose my shields.   With spending so much time using cover, I guess I’m just not skilled enough yet to think like a CQC class.

With that being said, can you all help me create a viable spec to use and help me understand how to play this class?  From what I’ve seen, it really looks like it would be the most fun if I can actually master their abilities.

Thanks!

Modifié par lastpatriot, 15 novembre 2011 - 01:36 .

[CoffeeHolic93]

lastpatriot wrote...

Hello everyone!

With all the user guides out there right now, I was hoping that you all might be able to give me some clear guidance on how to play the Vanguard class and, more specifically, how to think like one.  So far I have played the Sentinel, Soldier, and the Adept on Insanity and found all of them to be really fun (Sentinel being the easiest by far).  With ME:3 coming out in March, I wanted to continue my FemShep from ME:1 as a Vanguard (it best fits the RP for her character) yet I always struggle with when to charge and what weapon to use.  So often I find myself charging into a situation w/o cover or starting to panic when I lose my shields.   With spending so much time using cover, I guess I’m just not skilled enough yet to think like a CQC class.

With that being said, can you all help me create a viable spec to use and help me understand how to play this class?  From what I’ve seen, it really looks like it would be the most fun if I can actually master their abilities.

Thanks!

First things first. Kasumi's Flashbang cures all ills. The stagger and weapon overheat is just what a vanguard needs. That said, I don't find it necessary. Try to charge guys near cover, or in the back of a group. Without Inferno Ammo, charging a group is risky and you have to know what you're doing.

So:
Charge guys near cover
Charge guys who're alone
Don't Charge groups unless you're sure you can handle them

Sinosleep posted some low level vanguard vids, I'll go see if I can find them.

Edit: Sinosleep's low level vanguard.

Modifié par Mi-Chan, 15 novembre 2011 - 01:54 .

[ryoldschool]

A couple of questions.

(1) are you on PC or 360? If you are on 360 you need to change your camera speed setting so you can turn faster in close combat.

(2) How far have you played with vanguard?

As far as weapons go, if you have the Kasumi DLC, do that mission early to get the Locust because its almost as good as an assault rifle. For SG - they are all viable, just get one you feel comfortable with.

On the charging part - well you have to die about a million times ( at least I did ) before you get decent at it. Maybe Xassantex will comment here - he just picked up vanguard in the last few months.

[lastpatriot]

ryoldschool wrote...
A couple of questions.
(1) are you on PC or 360? If you are on 360 you need to change your camera speed setting so you can turn faster in close combat.

I’m actually playing on a PC so that won’t be a problem for me.

ryoldschool wrote...
(2) How far have you played with vanguard?

I actually got up to the Horizon mission before I about used a compression drill on my skull.  That and the mission to rescue Jack pretty much killed the class for me as I must have died on each about 20 times or more.

ryoldschool wrote...
As far as weapons go, if you have the Kasumi DLC, do that mission early to get the Locust because its almost as good as an assault rifle. For SG - they are all viable, just get one you feel comfortable with.

Wait, this may sound stupid but I thought the Vanguard really doesn’t ever use any other weapon other than the shotgun?

ryoldschool wrote...
On the charging part - well you have to die about a million times ( at least I did ) before you get decent at it.

I guess that’s the part I’m having the hardest part with is that I’m so used to being able to just roll through places with my Sentinel or even the Adept that it’s frustrating getting killed after making 1 mistake.

Modifié par lastpatriot, 15 novembre 2011 - 01:59 .

[lastpatriot]

Mi-Chan wrote...

Sinosleep posted some low level vanguard vids, I'll go see if I can find them.

Edit: Sinosleep's low level vanguard.

Thanks Mi-Chan!

[Yezdigerd]

My suggestion would be learn to strip defences with your squad. overload-warp-charge a red dude and kill the shielded one next to him.
Practice taking cover even if it's not necessary, mastering the art of quickly going down behind a box decreases your reloads considerable.
Unless you have to move, hold the charge until they shot away your shield. getting it back plus a barrierbonus gives charge more value for the money IMO.
Get pull or slam, and spam these powers when you don't want to charge.
Then it's matter on how aggresive you want to play. With the claymore you are encouraged to charge, with a assault or sniperrifle you can play more of a adept with charge which I prefer.

My 2 cents.

[lastpatriot]

@Yezdigerd,

You mentioned pull and thanks to link above, I saw how Sinosleep was using pull as a CC ability while he took out another target. Does pull have any affect on a shielded target?

[CoffeeHolic93]

lastpatriot wrote...

@Yezdigerd,

You mentioned pull and thanks to link above, I saw how Sinosleep was using pull as a CC ability while he took out another target. Does pull have any affect on a shielded target?

It staggers enemies. It might not sound like much - but a staggered enemy is an enemy that isn't firing his or her weapon.

[ryoldschool]

Also, if you made it past Horizon, then do the Geth Weather side mission and get the 3rd damage protection upgrade - that helps quite a bit.

[lastpatriot]

Mi-Chan wrote...

lastpatriot wrote...

@Yezdigerd,

You mentioned pull and thanks to link above, I saw how Sinosleep was using pull as a CC ability while he took out another target. Does pull have any affect on a shielded target?

It staggers enemies. It might not sound like much - but a staggered enemy is an enemy that isn't firing his or her weapon.

Ah... nice trick!  While they are staggared, you can't use a warp explosion on them can you?

[CoffeeHolic93]

lastpatriot wrote...


Ah... nice trick!  While they are staggared, you can't use a warp explosion on them can you?

Sadly no. They have to be floating/glowing blue while on health(in case the game glitches and they don't levitate). Keep in mind that Incineration Blast, Shockwave (a tad unreliable), Concussive Blast and other powers cause Area Staggers aswell, so you're not forced to drag a pullbot with you everywhere.

[lastpatriot]

Just like Kasumi's grenade then. While learning the class more, would you all suggests I go right after Insanity and get used to the pace of things or start on a lower difficulty level? I was thinking of just staying with Insanity.

[CoffeeHolic93]

lastpatriot wrote...

Just like Kasumi's grenade then. While learning the class more, would you all suggests I go right after Insanity and get used to the pace of things or start on a lower difficulty level? I was thinking of just staying with Insanity.

I'd say go for Insanity as it's the best way to learn.  You must die like a Vanguard before you can dominate as a vanguard.

[mcsupersport]

Unless they are ragdolled they can't be exploded.

To my mind the two most important things to get maxed asap are class passive, and charge, with inferno ammo a close third.

class passive because it is the only thing that reduces the cooldown of charge.

Charge because the heavy version restores shields and gives a nice time slowdown at the end making targeting easier.

Inferno ammo for the cqc fire dance in area effect.

For most Vanguard, everything else is bonus material.

[lastpatriot]

Another question... is it best to use the Geth SG for learning how to play the class or go right for the claymore like I see in almost all of the vids? I've heard about this quick reload trick but I don't know the details of it.

Modifié par lastpatriot, 15 novembre 2011 - 05:35 .

[CoffeeHolic93]

lastpatriot wrote...

Another question... is it best to use the Geth SG for learning how to play the class or go right for the claymore like I see in almost all of the vids? I've heard about this quick reload trick but I don't know the details of it.

The Geth Plasma Shotgun has a slight delay (you have to release the mouse button to fire it) which can get you killed in close quarters. It's not good at proccing ammo powers either due to the lower number of pellets.

I'd say go for the Katana or the Eviscerator. If you like the feel of the Katana, consider the Scimitar.

[ryoldschool]

@ patriot Sorry, but when I said that all the SG were viable - I don't consider the Geth SG a SG really, I can never get used to it on a Vanguard, so I agree with Mi-Chan.

[lastpatriot]

ryoldschool wrote...

@ patriot Sorry, but when I said that all the SG were viable - I don't consider the Geth SG a SG really, I can never get used to it on a Vanguard, so I agree with Mi-Chan.

This really does explain a lot to me because when I tried this out last time, that's the weapon I was using and I just couldn't figure out why I sucked so bad.  I've completed ME:2 on just about every other class but none of them were as fun as the Vanguard (when I didn't die ever 2 seconds).  I just hope that BioWare doesn't screw up the class for ME:3.

[Kronner]

heavy charge, inferno ammo, max passive

that's it, then just play, does not matter what equipment and squadmates you bring with you

you gotta die a few times before figuring it out, but that's what makes the game rewarding

[xassantex]

@Kronner : a few times ? i found if i die enough times , i eventually get all "blasé" about it and magically start playing decently.

@lastpatriot : I'm still new at the Vanguard and i won't tell you how many times i've died - not that i don't want to, i just lost count. Personally i need to get past the frustration ( for my anger management issues it's the hardest part,,lol ) .and try again with some changes every time.
Sometimes i even use FRAPS to record my failures so i can analyse what i did wrong.
It helps only to a degree because everytime the AI will act/react a bit differently.

you might as well go for Insanity, pick up the claymore , get comfortable with red veins and loud heart beats , .. and when you finally nail it it's very satisfying. I've found watching videos helped me a bit, but only to a degree. I can't emulate what the top players do :\\ .

at this stage , i still need to improve on melee as a staggering tool , and use the reload trick more often . It's not natural yet.

i do find the vanguard the most challenging but very fun and intense . The adept is close behind .
But after seeing Caol1la's engineer , my vanguard looks a bit tame..haha.

all the best

Modifié par xassantex, 15 novembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[Yezdigerd]

The GPS is not bad, just different, it has almost the range of an smg and can hit very hard if you charge it, the slow reload and few pellets proccing cc makes it kinda poor if you want to be in their face all the time, kinda vanguard.
The scimitar is probably the most beginner friendly one. High rate of fire allows you to adjust your aim and it procs ammopowers at a very high rate. You get it pretty late though.

The claymore further reinforce the high risk high reward play style, if you miss you have great tendency to die and you have to master the reload trick to make it shine.

Personally I prefer the assault rifle, you never run out of ammo, and the mattock or avenger works pretty much like a shotgun you can use at range as well.

[mcsupersport]

On adepts, Engineers and even Soldiers, I love the GPS. On the Vanguard, to me it stinks of cow manure. Yeah, yeah, I know some people love it, but I just can't get to like it for that one class. If I want a Mattock/Viper Vanguard( which happens to be my most common one) I tote the Eviscerator. If I want a Claymore Vanguard then I make sure I have the locust smgto go with me.

Please don't forget about your other weapons, because they can have a good place in how you play, which for me means either having a sniper rifle to loosen up the enemy or some sort of heavy pistol to take it's place. A tempest smg can be a very effective "shotgun" up close and personal if you can get your timing down, to unload a magazine, reload and charge to start all over.

My favorite shotguns order is

Eviscerator( usually paired with the Viper but Mattock is very effective too)
Claymore
Scimitar
GPS
Katana

But hey, I am weird that way. You can use powers to be more of a caster Vanguard but I don't see the point trying to play that way heavily because otherwise why not play an Adept. The powers to me are all bonus and OS buttons for the few times Charge will not be a good idea or has a glitch issue, ie platforms.

Modifié par mcsupersport, 15 novembre 2011 - 09:14 .

[Adonijah]

When playing a Vanguard, especially on higher difficulties, you'll find you need to play Soldier (to turn a phrase) to strip defenses if you don't have a team setup to do so.  I found that picking the right teammates for the right mission was fairly important.  When you're in the thick of things, remember to pause and get a look around to make sure you didn't miss something.  I found most of the time when I got killed, I could've likely saved myself by taking a moment to check my surroundings.

• Miranda with Heavy Warp and Heavy/Area Overload is great in terms of versatility (Armor/Barrier/Shield)
• Samara's Area Reave and Assault Rifle use also makes her a strong contender (Armor/Barrier +AR)
• Zaeed is a good choice with Heavy Concussion Shot, Inferno Grenade (Stronger > Area in this regard, imo) and his extremely high damage output (Armor/Barrier + AR)  I find that the M-29 Incisor tends to work very well.  The damage output is high, and Zaeed doesn't tend to stick his head out for quite as long as he does with an assault rifle.
• Garrus with Heavy Concussion Shot and Overload and both Assault and Sniper Rifles is a great choice in my opinion.  Also, if you know what you're up against - you can change his build to Concussion Shot and Armor-Piercing Ammo if you don't think you're going up against many shields (say, fighting Collectors).
• Kasumi is a good choice to take, even without Overload.  Improved Flashbang does wonders against protected targets, and Shadow Strike is pretty versatile in itself.
• Legion or Tali can often help with a well-timed Drone, pulling some of the fire off of you.

• Against Collectors, I'm fond of Grunt with Concussion Shot and Fortification.  Not so much for stripping per-say, but more along the lines of the fact that he draws lots of fire and is hard as hell to kill.

As far as weapons go, I chose Assault Rifle for Advanced Weapon Training with the Mattock as an armor-piercing alternative to my Scimitar Shotgun, though the Viper Sniper Rifle would also work in the same regard.  If you've taken the Claymore (which it sounds like), the Carnifex can work to the same effect, though not quite as effectively.  For Heavy Weapons, I'm a big fan of the Arc Projector if you want teammates without Anti-Shield measures.  A single shot can drain the shields of a bunch of guys, even on Insanity.  Having the Arc Projector also allows you to carry the M-12 Locust without sacrificing too much Shield Stripping capabilities, as the Locust has the same multipliers as an Assault rifle - meaning equal on Shields, Barriers, and Armor.

[capn233]

Once you get upgrades you can be ridiculously aggressive, but in the beginning you have to be pretty careful about charge. Try to get someone singled out, strip their protection and then charge to get them flung through the air. Retreat to cover if need be. After charge is maxed and you level up, you will be able to charge into groups if you are careful. And charging protected enemies will become possible as well... you can stagger them with the charge, and shoot and or melee them and they can't return fire.

As for weapons, I took the Eviscerator primarily. When I got the the DCS I took the Claymore. However after the platform battle I reloaded right before the weapon choice and took the sniper rifles instead. I did not find the Claymore to be leaps and bounds better than the Eviscerator and would rather have an extra weapon. Also the Viper is very good at stripping protection, and if you don't have it yet the Mantis at least gives you a ranged option before charging.

As for the sub-guns, if I am a class with one I do Kasumi's mission after I pick up Mordin and Garrus... somewhat early. But after Haestrom I tend to switch to the Tempest. The Locust is a decent tradoff if you want range, but most of the time I have taken SR or AR training on those classes and would rather have more ROF and anti-shield ability with my SMG. You can use the Tempest to unload on enemies when you charge them as well, if you are looking for a change from the shotguns.

I used slam for the bonus power. It is good with only 1 pt investment and can briefly take an enemy out of the fight. Cooldown is also pretty quick.

I agree with the ideas about squadmates to strip defenses.