342 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

I guess what all this comes down to is a theme that I made at a panel I hosted at "GeekGirlCon". So many people have opinions but don't voice them, especially when it's a good one. Prior to working at BioWare, I was a forum lurker. Read stuff but never directly engaged. Thus my opinion and my voice was never heard. This is something I think needs to change in fandom if we want supportive communities. Make your voice heard. I should make a forum post about this...

To go back on topic (don't want to have to ban myself!) I would say that the dev team is not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Thanks for this insightful post, Jessica. I absolutely agree with you -- fans need to make ourselves be heard. And it's comforting to know that the crazies among us are typically ignored for the most part, as evidenced by a prior post of yours. Very comforting... 

It's an interesting situation for me, being a huge fan of BioWare. Growing up, many of my favorite video game developers were Japanese. I could write an essay on where I sort of fell off with Squaresoft/Square Enix, although I'm still quite passionate with my love for Nintendo, Intelligent Systems, Kojima Productions and a couple of others.

As an American fan of Japanese developers, short of learning Japanese (a tantalizing little thought, no doubt, but life is so chock full of other things to tend to) it's often very difficult to express my opinions to those great men and women working halfway across the world from me. For instance, a Wii RPG by the name of Xenoblade debuted to rave reviews over there, features one of my favorite directors in the industry at its helm and it's even coming out in Europe, but it doesn't look like it will ever see the light of day here in North America. There's a big fan campaign over here, but there is some reason to speculate that few Japanese over at Nintendo are even aware of us. The boundaries are there and they're quite irksome; this is what I grew up accustomed to.

It's a tremendously refreshing thing to be a part of a fan community for a closer developer. There is a sense of connection here lacking in my previous gaming exploits and I love it. Rock on.

[onelifecrisis]

The Interloper wrote...

 "Here, have another quart of gasoline for your forum fire! And shame on you for making  such a fire. Fire is pointless. I'm above participating in forum fires."

I love BSN.

Semantics debates != ME gameplay/story debates. I've no idea how you've managed to confuse the two. I'm happy to explain why I don't think they had a vision, but I'm not going to start defining the word "vision".

[Blacklash93]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Thirded.  Stick with your vision, tell us your story!

I would agree with that if there was any indication that they actually had a vision.

OK, hang on: what to you qualifies as "a vision" and how do you know if one is lacking or not?

Something that isn't just mindless pandering to just a single part of the fanbase, and instead represents something that actually seems to be planned... Something that actually feels like it's ambitious, as one would expect of the finale of a trilogy that is suppose to have been planned for half a decade now.

Pandering to a single part of the fanbase? I've read the leaked files and I don't see any fanservice anywhere in the main story.

[onelifecrisis]

JeffZero wrote...

I absolutely agree with you -- fans need to make ourselves be heard. And it's comforting to know that the crazies among us are typically ignored for the most part

So, she was saying that fans should be heard... except the ones you disagree with, who should be ignored. Yeah, I'm sure that's what she meant.

[Sylvianus]

RolandX9 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

I don't ****ing care what people want for " their " story, or their plot concerned only by their agenda, I want the story of Bioware. That's it.

I get the sentiment here, I think, but...um...choice? Hello?

When I hear my Paragon Shepard sound like the worst sort of jerk Renegade, it pisses me off. I imagine a lot of Renegade players feel the same way about Shepard getting all Captain Picard on them. Not that I think this is too much of a problem yet, but if there's one critique that I partly agree with (disclaimer: based on admittedly old data that we know has been partly superseded by other stuff), it's the railroading on some of the major choices. I'm not all "arrgle blargle my choices don't matter" about ME3 (I'll save that stuff for DA2 for now), but I can understand the concern. I came to Mass Effect because of three things: a great universe with compelling, wonderfully written characters -- where I can make a difference. Yes, there are limits to how broad that difference can be, but I want to have the last edit, insofar as that's possible.

Mind you, things are looking pretty solid on that front. I'm not saying I don't like what I see (quite the contrary -- for the most part it looks freakin awesome!), just that some of the concerns have some legitimacy.

If you are worried about choices, it's a good thing, we share the same thoughts. 

That's not what I am talking about. I saw many people who asked to change the main plot, because they simply don't like the main plot. A story is good or not, you like it or not. But it must remains the vision of the creator, what he wanted to write.  The races, the factions, etc etc. When I saw that Bioware feared to show the Quarians in Mass effect 3, while they wanted to, because some talimancers didn't want that, it made me mad.

The only things I can't agree with are retcon, because the creator doesn't respect his own creation, that's it.

A story can't be decided by fanboys, haters, or the bsn. First it would be worse, and it isn't interesting at all  It's the better way to fail for Bioware.

When you see the level of the debates on the bsn, do you really want that Bioware follows their demands for the main plot ? Hell, no. But if people ask for more choices, yes, no problem.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 novembre 2011 - 10:55 .

[Heimdall]

1136342t54 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Not with me it hasn't. I know better than to get suckered into pointless semantic debates.

To be honest you basically put yourself open for that line of questioning. Your assumptions for saying Bioware is just making it up along the way is just that assumptions and some would like to see why you are so sure of that and debate it. Personally I could care less since you already made your decision on the matter and are unlikely to change it.

99% of arguments on these boards are pretty pointless in that regard actually.

[1136342t54_]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Pandering to a single part of the fanbase? I've read the leaked files and I don't see any fanservice anywhere in the main story.

You obviously haven't looked hard enough or you are *gasps* part of the fanbase being pandered to!

GTFO just kidding.

[onelifecrisis]

1136342t54 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Not with me it hasn't. I know better than to get suckered into pointless semantic debates.

To be honest you basically put yourself open for that line of questioning.

To be asked to define a word? Mmm, yeah, ok.

1136342t54 wrote...

Your assumptions for saying Bioware is just making it up along the way is just that assumptions and some would like to see why you are so sure of that and debate it. Personally I could care less since you already made your decision on the matter and are unlikely to change it.

Okay, thanks for taking the time to let me know you could care less. Much appreciated.

[JeffZero]

onelifecrisis wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I absolutely agree with you -- fans need to make ourselves be heard. And it's comforting to know that the crazies among us are typically ignored for the most part

So, she was saying that fans should be heard... except the ones you disagree with, who should be ignored. Yeah, I'm sure that's what she meant.

Well see, there are varying levels of crazy. You and I are sometimes at odds, and maybe we're both crazy on top of that, but we both deserve to be heard.

I'm talkin' truly crazy.

[Jenova65]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...

BSN will never be completely civil Jess lol.

I can dream. But for the most part you guys are awesome.

You enjoyed popping into the Kaidan thread though, right?  We are nice..... 

[1136342t54_]

onelifecrisis wrote...

To be asked to define a word? Mmm, yeah, ok.

You claimed Bioware has no vision for the game and is making it up as they go. Didy is asking what is your definition of vision and what makes you think someone doesn't have one. The meaning of vision wasn't the only question asked and is kind of a reasonable question to ask.

Okay, thanks for taking the time to let me know you could care less. Much appreciated.

That post was part of the explanation for why someone would actually attempt to ask you a question similar to didy. I added in not caring since I don't want to necessarily argue about your reasons for claiming bioware has no vision.

[onelifecrisis]

Sylvianus wrote...

When you see the level of the debates on the bsn, do you really want that Bioware follows their demands for the main plot ?

BW couldn't do that even if they wanted to, because no two people on BSN can agree on everything they want. However, what BW can do (and hopefully did do, back when it would have made a difference) is look at the criticism and work out why there was a problem, and how they can avoid those problems in the future.

[SNascimento]

Just don't delay the game again!

[onelifecrisis]

JeffZero wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I absolutely agree with you -- fans need to make ourselves be heard. And it's comforting to know that the crazies among us are typically ignored for the most part

So, she was saying that fans should be heard... except the ones you disagree with, who should be ignored. Yeah, I'm sure that's what she meant.

Well see, there are varying levels of crazy. You and I are sometimes at odds, and maybe we're both crazy on top of that, but we both deserve to be heard.

I'm talkin' truly crazy.

Well I'm flattered that I'm not in your truly crazy group, but I still disagree with what you're saying. Any fan who makes an at least coherent statement (positive or negative) about the game has an equal right to be heard IMO.

[Ausstig]

Do you what attracted me to Mass Effect, choices and the idea that my choices would matter. So having read the leaks I am disappointed.

AS to the Pandering he is talking about Paragons, it is still a bit of bias to wards them, but the effects of both choices are puzzling at best, I won't say too much but I found it very Jarring the way the choices panned out.

But the biggest issue with the story is not a spoiler and in my opinion it is that Cerberus is the Key Secondary Antagonist this is annoying for a number of reason

1. Where do they get the resources? They were crippled in Retribution

2. What was the point of going more in depth with them in ME2, why when it leads to nothing?

3. No player choice, why give us the option to be pro Cerberus in ME2 if you make them the enemy in ME3?

PM me if you can answer them

Thanks

[JeffZero]

onelifecrisis wrote...
Well I'm flattered that I'm not in your truly crazy group, but I still disagree with what you're saying. Any fan who makes an at least coherent statement (positive or negative) about the game has an equal right to be heard IMO.

*shrugs* There's a difference between being heard and being listened-to. If someone were to pop in right now and proudly proclaim that the only way they would be remotely satisfied with the events of ME3 was to see both Garrus and Wrex tortured to death in the slowest and most agonizing, downright uncomfortable way possible, I wouldn't want BioWare not to read their oh-so-precious little comment but I am glad to get further confirmation that it would be summarily disregarded as not building a consensus on the general taste of fandom.

[onelifecrisis]

[quote]1136342t54 wrote...

[quote]onelifecrisis wrote...

To be asked to define a word? Mmm, yeah, ok.
[/quote]

You claimed Bioware has no vision for the game and is making it up as they go. Didy is asking what is your definition of vision and what makes you think someone doesn't have one. The meaning of vision wasn't the only question asked and is kind of a reasonable question to ask.
[/quote]
[/quote]

But it is the part you responded to, to which I in turn responded, which led to this exchange. If you want to see my answer to the other part of what didy asked then you might want to read my other posts in this thread instead of skipping straight to the ones with your name in them.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 15 novembre 2011 - 11:09 .

[onelifecrisis]

JeffZero wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...
Well I'm flattered that I'm not in your truly crazy group, but I still disagree with what you're saying. Any fan who makes an at least coherent statement (positive or negative) about the game has an equal right to be heard IMO.

*shrugs* There's a difference between being heard and being listened-to. If someone were to pop in right now and proudly proclaim that the only way they would be remotely satisfied with the events of ME3 was to see both Garrus and Wrex tortured to death in the slowest and most agonizing, downright uncomfortable way possible, I wouldn't want BioWare not to read their oh-so-precious little comment but I am glad to get further confirmation that it would be summarily disregarded as not building a consensus on the general taste of fandom.

I guess that would depend on just how many people seriously agreed with the "crazy" poster. 

But for the record, I don't want to see Garrus and Wrex tortured to death. 

[Heimdall]

onelifecrisis wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I absolutely agree with you -- fans need to make ourselves be heard. And it's comforting to know that the crazies among us are typically ignored for the most part

So, she was saying that fans should be heard... except the ones you disagree with, who should be ignored. Yeah, I'm sure that's what she meant.

Well see, there are varying levels of crazy. You and I are sometimes at odds, and maybe we're both crazy on top of that, but we both deserve to be heard.

I'm talkin' truly crazy.

Well I'm flattered that I'm not in your truly crazy group, but I still disagree with what you're saying. Any fan who makes an at least coherent statement (positive or negative) about the game has an equal right to be heard IMO.

True, but many grievences are subjective and when the fans disagree it becomes very difficult for Bioware to actually draw anything from it.  Not to mention, some fans have broad issues with the entire direction of the game and others disagree.  It's difficult to acually make any changes from any information on these boards.

Not to mention, it's always been my experience that those who dislike something tend to be more likely to each start a new thread about why they vehemently hate such and such.  Meanwhile, those who actually enjoy the game are more likely to chime in an existing reveiw thread and then go back to playing the game.

Everything on these boards should be noted but at the end of the day it's hard to gage anything unless the reaction is universally positive or negative.

[1136342t54_]

onelifecrisis wrote...


But it is the part you responded to, to which I in turn responded, which led to this exchange. If you want to see my answer to the other part of what didy asked then you might want to read my other posts in this thread instead of skipping straight to the ones with your name in them.

That isn't the point. I was attempting to explain the reason why he asked I didn't necessarily care the answer to his question which you didn't really answer him directly anyway. It was a simple explanation that for some reason was miscontrued.

[JeffZero]

onelifecrisis wrote...
I guess that would depend on just how many people seriously agreed with the "crazy" poster. 

But for the record, I don't want to see Garrus and Wrex tortured to death. 

True, if there was a good bit more than one off-the-wall dude saying that he desired such an outcome I wouldn't disapprove of BioWare taking it into account.

Thankfully, that isn't the case... 

[The Interloper]

onelifecrisis wrote...
Semantics debates != ME gameplay/story debates. I've no idea how you've managed to confuse the two. I'm happy to explain why I don't think they had a vision, but I'm not going to start defining the word "vision".

So you decide to skip explaining yourself and instead use a word, "vision," to explain your judgement. But if the definition of vision is up to debate and you have no intention of participating in such a debate, then why'd you use such a useless word?

That's all I'm taking issue with here. I have not read the spoilers, do not intend to, and thus cannot make definite judgements or counterjudgements about the story and hence to not see the point in arguing over someone elses' opinion of it (unless they haven't read them either). Just so we're clear.

Jessica Merizan wrote...
I would say that the dev team is not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The what with the what now? What does that even mean (in this context)??

[JeffZero]

The Interloper wrote...
The what with the what now? What does that even mean (in this context)??

http://www.wisegeek....-water-mean.htm

[GMagnum]

dam wat happened 2 dat other topic, i wan sum skittles now tbh